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PrivacyProtonmail.uservoice.com is supposedly "The Voice of the Proton Community". Well last week I was tracking a post that was rising rapidly to the top-most voted in the "general ideas" category. And this morning when I went to check if it was at the top yet, it's just gone without a trace. No sign that it was ever there.
I use mailbox.org instead. Works well. Forget proton.
True
Man, I miss being employed!
I wish that I could afford to onboard to a new service and leave these guys behind. Problem is that I have one of the earlier tiers and it's far cheaper than anything else I'd be able to afford right now.
Stick with them purely out of necessity, I guess
I am in the same boat
Really wish I didn’t have so many proton aliases now. Went to cancel just now and realized how many things I’d need to locate and swap over.
Switching to monthly billing and starting the process, I suppose. Really disappointing all around, but it’s not like the writing hasn’t been on the wall for a while.
Buy a domain and apply it to your proton account. then update all your account's email addresses. Then migrate.
Next migration will be much less painful
I have about 8 months left on my family plan, and I'm already changing those aliases, which has allowed me to go over some abandoned stuff and some things I didn'tknow that I want to eliminate. Already test-driving (and hammering hard) stalwart for email on a VPS, and just 2 days ago I finally finished deploying Psono in my proxmox (way harder than I remember vaultwarden, but bitwarden is no longer an option for me because it is on a different path to the same exact bullshit).
My main friction will be moving my wife yet again from one workflow to another (Fuck Proton for putting me through this shit again).
Still no idea what I will use for geographic VPN, but that's nowhere near as important for me as password manager and email.
We already have everything on my server with nextcloud for files and immich for videos and pictures, so that's a non-issue for me.
Yeah I'm in the same boat. The aliases are a great way to lock in users....
You already have another service that does aliasing well? While I have my own domain I feel like their mail and alias management is a pain...
Mailbox.org has aliasing and supports custom domains
Addy.io can use your own domain.
Unfortunately not. Starting the search now. I’ve got my own domain that makes sense to use for the stuff I don’t associate with my real name, but not one I’d use for my professional or non-terminally-online contact info, lol.
Same for me, I have a mail with only my initials on a known and reputable holster for professional stuff.
But for all those online shops, websites etc using aliases would be a treat and for that I could also use my own domain like amazon@example.com etc...
So everyone supporting this petition is now cancelling their subscriptions, right?
I am not renewing mine, for sure.
Yep, I am
I'm a Proton user too and I use all the available tools/services. It was a hard job to switch from Google to Proton, now it looks like I'm fcked again. So I don't know where I can go to receive the same kind of tools + where ethics still mean something.
So I don't know where I can go to receive the same kind of tools + where ethics still mean something.
People have been posting alternatives the past 2 weeks
Yes, but switching to an alternative is not a solution. For all you know, you'll be switching again in 6 months when the alternative does something shitty
Yes, but switching to an alternative is not a solution
Then what is a solution?
You're the one who asked where you could go that has ethical business practices.
Your best bet is to migrate away from scumny companies to a medley of services while deliberately not fully committing to an ecosystem in order to minimize the disruption when one also goes bad. Alternatively, you can self host. Those really are the only 2 answers to your original question
Hard to find one that formally states having a hipaa compliant option
Wow, there were a ton of posts asking for Andy Yen’s resignation and now there’s no trace of any of them. So much for transparency. What else are they sweeping under the rug?
That's about the worst way for them to respond.
I'm paid up for like 10 mo. But I disabled my renewals. And have started the move to Mailbox.
I believe in giving ppl and co's a chance to learn from mistakes. But you pile more mistakes on those mistakes? And censor customer feedback about them? Well ... you have competitors.
If you cancel they give pro-rata refunds I believe.
Oh good to know, thx! I will try that as soon as I'm totally switched over.
I have also started migrating to Mailbox.
Nice 👍 So far the onboarding process has been smooth. Haven't tried to set up PGP keys yet, but doesn't look hard to do.
The fact Andy Yen has not resigned nor the board removed him, shows Proton can no longer be recommended in good faith, IMO. They have lost their way. Also find it logical that many of Protons top talent are pursuing alternative employment. Being called losers is high motivation for people who take pride in their skills.
This wasn't the first time Andy showed us who he is. Won't be the last.
"shows Proton can no longer be recommended in good faith, IMO."
That's been clear for a good while before all this.
I didn't know their top talent is leaving. Do you have an article?
It would be very risky to not be looking for a new job after your employer schedules a "re-interview" and threatens your "continuous employment".
Yeah. I get that. I would leave too. I just thought there was additional info suggesting high performer bleed
While I would definitely leave after this - were I of course a top performer at Proton - I would not make it public until I get to actually hand in the notice.
There is no evidence of this taking place. The users who replied to you are making assumptions.
So to answer your question, there is no such info.
In my experience, most of the Proton hate is unfounded and just users stanning for Mulvad. The Mulvad co-founder turned out to be a fascist. Oddly enough, there is little to no Mulvad hate.
Proton's CEO is a dick but what CEO isn't? It's a prerequisite to be CEO, no? But there are no signs he's a fascist. He also backed down from his comments and actions. Most leaders simply wouldn't do that. He read the room.
Also, Proton is also a non-profit, which most don't seem to realize. That means more to me than a CEO being a dickhead about capitalism (the system used world-fucking-wide) and AI stupidity. YMMV.
In my experience, most of the Proton hate is unfounded and just users stanning for Mulvad. The Mulvad co-founder turned out to be a fascist. Oddly enough, there is little to no Mulvad hate.
What are you smoking? Everyone on here criticized Mullvad over their co-founder being a fascist and more people recommended against moving to Mullvad from Proton because of it
Bro fell for the HR response. Get off the sinking ship whioe you can. OpenAI was also a non profit.
Not to totally discredit you here, but we need to ask for better service and leadership. We can settle for better than Mullvad or Proton.
Thanks for keeping tabs on this OP and posting an update.
I am genuinely surprised, although I shouldn't be.
I'll be sure to include this in my reasons when I cancel my account next week. Proton has been such a huge disappointment.
Nov 3 snapshot of the General Ideas page, showing top post calling for Yen's departure: https://web.archive.org/web/20261103153135/https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/945460-general-ideas
Nov 7 snapshot of the post with 2457 votes: https://web.archive.org/web/20261107022144/https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/945460-general-ideas/suggestions/51869994-andy-yen-ceo-should-step-down-completely
Current link to the post bounces to the list with message "That idea has been deleted" https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/945460-general-ideas/suggestions/51869994-andy-yen-ceo-should-step-down-completely
These should all be referenced when writing to the Proton Foundation until a response is issued.
I emailed the foundation last night, replying to my original email from last week, and cited these links. Thanks for sending them.
They have also been purging messages on the ProtonMail subreddit which they control. The community-controlled alternatives like ProtonPublic have been unaffected.
I deleted my Proton account back when this started and it seems like that was the right move. This company is fucked.
Is it fucked? Or it it about to become one of the most successful companies in the world, given the apparent requirement to be terrible and exploitive in order to be a giant company.
I don't think people were joining Proton because it was giant or the most successful...
Yeah almost every top post on General Ideas was related to getting rid of the CEO, yesterday when I checked, almost all of them were gone 😅
You know what that means, time to make some new posts
Alternatives time! I know I'm two weeks from my renewal, def need ALTs for my torrenting vpn and mailbox now. Any reccs from lemmy?
Tuta for mailbox
It's not the only one that was taken down. Some of them have just been tagged as "deleted". Others, perhaps those with more traction, have been disappeared completely.
I contributed my opinion to one of these posts and it has completely vanished without a trace.
The 'justification' theyre using is, "We run this forum to manage feature requests". The implication being that a stable, secure, trustworthy product is not a feature we can request.
Do you remember how high it was? Last I checked a few days ago it was a little over 2k I think. I gave the benefit of the doubt about the Trump appointee comments but glad I took this last week to move things off Proton. Not sure about a VPN replacement and gonna pay a few months for any mail I didn't remember to move but otherwise I'm out and happy for it.
I finshed moving to Tuta this weekend and cancelled my Proton subscription. I was sure to mention Andy Yens behavior and reactions like this as the reason.
You know Tuta is moving to slop too, right? Just without the brazen insults… that we know of.
JFC are there no good options that do not require running my own mail server?
Running your own mail server, as troublesome and annoying as it may be, really is probably the best option.
I moved to Mailbox.org in the past few days. You can encrypt your inbox with PGP it appears, though I haven't quite got to it yet. Mailbox.org seems built by technical people, for better or worse.
For worse in a lot of ways unfortunately... No free tier to try and your account gets nuked in 30 days if you stop paying for some reason. If I'm going for mailbox, might as well go for Migadu or Purelymail.
Hmm I'm pretty sure I could make an account, and log in, with the restriction being I couldn't send email until I'd subscribed. So you should be able to test the features. I wasn't aware of the 30 days and you're nuked rule!
What the fuck did you think was going to happen lol
Proton is Israel and the US' bitch. They aren't trustworthy. Taking blacklists at face value with no appeal options, and banning accounts handed to them by the US.
Proton enthusiasts almost always downvote me when I point this out. It's not my fault they are fucking stupid.
I think people (including me, until recently) give too much benefit of the doubt to business people, just because they'd rather believe they tell the truth when spousing ideals. Of course they'll be shady when it makes financial sense, and even be dumbasses when it makes no financial sense.
Our system selects fairly well so that people like this end up being the primary decision makers, and it's a very rare occasion when someone with morals makes it high enough and manages to stay there.
Well said, I'm not blameless in giving some of them more credit that they are due, and I'm accused of being supremely cynical. But if you go back from predictions and assumptions, I give them all too much credit even if it's less than almost everyone else.
We have all the wrong people in charge. From the shift manager at the restaurant to the ceo's and politicians. With some exceptions.
The leadership were all reared to believe in nothing. No morals, no loyalty outside of self interest. And they choose those people all the way down.
I've been thinking about this lately. We let these capitalists pretending to be Tony Stark using tech for the good of humanity when they all, without exception, proceed to use their efforts solely to harvest money and make themselves rich while engaging with childish excess, temper tantrums, and activities that harm us all. Musk is a prime example.
They all need to be tightly controlled, in both the marketplace and in any dealings they have with the government or with foreign governments. Starlink (and the space portion of Spacex) for example should be emminent domained and nationalized. We cant have idiot musk weighing in on policy decisions around Ukraine or meeting on the side with Putin and Netenyahu, or addressing congress. He's only in it to make money, not govern. There needs to be a robust firewall between the two. Our government does not exist to give these capitalists hand jobs.
If only it existed one country where they're tighly controlled. ☭
Doesn't surprise me, given recent Proton news.
Welcome to the dictatorship of the Capital
I had breifly heard that the CEO was pro-Trump when Trump was re-elected, so I had cancelled then and than searched out Canadian hosts that do not look through my mail. I was first with HostHero, because I could move my blog onto there servers they however charge an arm and a leg for unlimited emails with no wildcard option. I got tired of their angry support people when I was having issues so I went looking for a better solution and found easyDNS, who now hosts my domain, a VPS, and an email with a wildcard option.
Tuta is good too.
Nah, no encrypted email support outside tuta, so it's close to worthless
Oh? It says it's encrypted, what is encrypted email support outside of tuta may I ask?
They do have paid versions so idk.
Wow, they suck :( and I just renewed my subscription like a month ago. Are there any viable privacy-focused alternatives? I want encryption, custom domains, and the ability to import my old emails.
I realized I got in on the ThunderMail beta and moved my email over. What a relief!
So what is a good VPN alternative that also has decent performance? Where I live obfuscation methods are necessary and Proton's implementation of it seems to be the only reliable one where I am at. IVPN works but speeds are miserable unfortunately.
sucks that i recently gave them the bitcoin i own as account credits
