Average open source project nowadays
(midwest.social)
Open SourceCan't escape AI slop projects from meat proxies man. Every single open source project smells like Claude Code recently. Sad times.
It does make me sad that Rust is getting so strongly associated with slop. Personally I find it a really fun language to actually program in. The language being expression-based is actually quite handy, and is a concept I wish existed in other languages too. But it is also unfortunately the most sensible language for vibe-coding too because of the performance and guardrails.
“I built”
Don't forget Claude in the contributor list!
AGENTS.md
Surprisingly not a red flag, it can be used to sabotage potential sloppers.
... is an indication of tooling, not a scarlet letter that AI contributed to the source code. A dev can include AGENTS.md to support automated maintenance (pre-commit hooks, config scripts, Github actions) without making AI part of the software. Does Makefile mean GNU Make wrote your program?
"AI. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"
Som project intetionally poison it. TouchHLE still does it afaik.
don't forget "claude rules" on the github project
Why rust?
Rewriting stuff in rust was kind of a meme long before LLM's. Rust also is famously a powerful language with a steep learning curve, the latter being irrelevant if you don't actually have to bother to learn it.
Rust is memory efficient and apparently safer. Think the barrier for entry is also a little higher than langs like C from what I hear.
Yeah Rust is a fairly low level language like C/C++ which should usually give you similar performance once compiled. The reason Rust was made and had become somewhat popular even before LLMs is the language and compiler are very strict. This means it is much harder to introduce things like memory leaks and concurrency issues. However this also means that it is generally more difficult to work in and learn than C due to needing to work within those restrictions especially when trying to get a new project going. However that does mean if you are going to do most of the coding via LLM tools then those tools are bound by the same strict rules and thus less likely to introduce hard to fix/reproduce memory issues.
I've heard someone say its because the compiler explains errors more clearly than that of other languages and claude or whatever can correct it more easily
Because wanna be programmers don’t want to learn a real language like c or c++ or anything else. Thats from what I hear from coworkers. I just use python, sql, and c++ for basic crap.
Why is c++ a "real" language and not rust? It's a tool. All programmers need to know logic above a specific language.
I guess being memory safe makes it not real. It's only a real programming language if you can easily cause a BSOD and leave attack surfaces from improper memory handling.
Yeah buddy I know logic and c and c++ are better lower level languages and they give you more understanding and freedom in you tool usage. Rust was made for people who don’t develop. Hope that helps you understand what I said more without you putting words in my mouth.
Having a deeper understanding is useful, for sure. But how does that make one language real over another?
I mostly use C but your Rust disrespect is crazy
Dis you?
Yes? That comment is not disrespecting Rust. I think you should learn to read.
Oh, I read perfectly well. You praised Rust, then dismissed 99.99% of its projects as "slop".
I think you should learn to formulate an argument without relying on ad-hominems and logical fallacies. Then you might have an opinion worth expressing.
Lmao cpp is not a real language, it's c with a bunch of OOP bloat on top. Imagine calling React a language.
Tell me you don’t have a degree or a job without telling me.
I once considered it a privilege to be able to program in rust. Even before, rust code can be quite terse
With LLMs now, I see code that gives my brain an anneurism and programming anti patterns that I didn't know existed
Although I understand why LLMs prefer rust safety guarantees that make it difficult to shoot itself on the foot
Yep, and it makes it harder to be motivated to actually work on OSS when your work can just be copied and sloppified into 10 other clones the next day
I remember people hating on calculators, then computers, then the Internet. It's going to destroy people's ability to think on their own. Man were they wrong
You remember? How old are you man?
How old are you?
Calculators came out when I was in grade 10
What was Jesus like, Gandalf?
(Ti-83, Casio FX-82 or were you still using the Antikythera mechanism back then :p
TBF, AI allowed me to make extensions for browsers for my personal use which didn't exists anywhere. So far, so good for me.
I wonder how the rustaceans feel about their language being associated with slop.
Probably the same way Unity feels about their game engine being associated with awful low budget shovelware games. The game engine was popular with low budget games because you can use the engine for free… But you have to display the “Made with Unity” splash screen for a few seconds as your game boots up. And notably, you can pay a licensing fee to remove that splash screen requirement. Basically the drug dealer special: Get the newbie game devs familiar with the engine for free, then charge the publishers to use the engine that their employees all already know.
The issue (which Unity didn’t initially foresee when they wrote their licensing terms) is that all of the shovelware games used Unity for free, and all of them had the big “Made with Unity” splash. So Unity very quickly became associated with super low effort shovelware games.
It just shows how safe the language is, LLMs have to rely on Rust to prevent all the memory bugs. Same for proof assistants
Yeah, it's qualities that are useful for humans, too, like frontloading all the errors to compile time + good compiler error messages.
Like, I'm annoyed that people will be irrational about it, much like they associate Rust with rewrites in permissive licenses, even though it is just a tool. It entirely depends on how you use the tool.
But irrational people gonna irrational. Not much you can do about that...
Especially when Go is superior for AI generated code 🤓
I used to program in Rust. It's a great language. I don't do that anymore because %99.99 of Rust projects are slop nowadays.
What? Are you serious? A lot of LLM-generated text is in English too, let's learn an obscure conlang and stop speaking English.
You know that's not the same
How is it not?
English is the universal language. Rust isn't. Using rust is a choice and not mandatory.
English is the universal language.
No, it isn't. But ignoring the chauvinism there, okay, replace English with any other language that LLMs can speak.
So instead of fixing the balance with your human Rust code, you instead associate the language as slop because people choose it for their slop projects since it's much safer and fast?
If anything, the slop projects working efficiently and not crashing every 5 minutes is the best proof you can have that Rust is uniquely great at what it offers, every language should aim to protect the program from its weakest link programmer which is AI in this case
Language isn't slop. Where did I say that? I literally said it's a great language.
What criteria for using rust is now not fulfilled anymore because slop uses rust? seems like you used the language for gaining Internet points
To be honest it's not rust. It's more like a mentality thing and probably not logical.
It's like not raising your hand because it has become a Nazi salute. The act of raising your hand isn't bad but it's associated with a bad intention.
It's the same with Rust. It's a great language and I actually really enjoy it. But seeing so many slop projects with it made me feel bad. That's it.
I really don't know why you're getting downvoted here. It seems people just want to pile on. All you're doing is talking about how you feel and how it's impacting your actions. It sucks that this stuff is driving you away from Rust.
Genuine question from a guy that knows nothing. What is the issue with Rust?
Rust is more modern and gives compiler errors on bugs that would cause obscure, possibly very hard to debug errors in C and C++. That is an advantage for programmers, and also people using LLMs.
Still, it takes time to write good software, so it being written extremely quickly compared to the size is an indicator of slop.
Nothing at all. OP just wants to hang shit on people using Rust because OP has an axe to grind against AI - which, given half a chance, will elect to code in Rust (as it's a well documented language). Therefore, Rust = sign of AI slop. (See downstream for their comments.
Rust is a fine language. Python is a fine language. OP needs a hug, some weed and BJ.
It's the preferred language choice for lots of slop projects because it's fast and memory safe. It's the language that lots of people would like to have written their projects in but couldn't because there is a steep learning curve, but LLMs let you slop out thousands of lines of rust without that.
Ok, clear. So, there is nothing wrong with the language itself, but its a good vehicle and indication for AI slop. Like the em dash of programming.
Exactly. Lots of good stuff written in Rust!
No in isolation but when they say they made something in rust in a month then flags start going up.
No, not at all. There’s some really good shit written in Rust. Didn't someone just re-write Minecraft in Rust?
“Written in Rust” as a slop indicator is like an AI scanner flagging a repo as AI-coded. Poor heuristic, infinite false positives. Which circles back to: if professional devs can’t tell the difference between AI-written and human-written Rust, the FuckAI crowd needs to rethink what “slop” actually means.
Or we need to admit that Rust is just...fucked :)
The only issue is that old people don't like new things and like to complain where those become popular.
"Nothing leaves your device!"
Which would you pick: a SAAS option, or open source vibe coded option? This is a hypothetical, so none of the "neither" crap, just which one are you more likely to pick first.
"Curious to know what others think!"
At this point when I see the words "I built" I automatically substitute it with "I cuck-coded".
That's a weird fetish, but I'm not kink shaming. You do you, boo.
So what do people that -actually- did it themselves say?
I feel like "I built" has a level of pompousness implied that I think is correlated with AI bros. I'd normally use a verb like "made". I know it's a synonym but it seems less tooting-your-own-horn in connotation. I don't think I've naturally said in a sentence that I "built" a tool.
Before I get strawmanned, no I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you built something. I'm mentioning that there's a minor difference in connotation that leads to one verb correlating with vibe-coding. That's all.
Nothing at all.
We're entering a low trust era. I suspect there's going to be less sharing and collaboration. Between dealing with entitlement, harassment of devs, slop code PRs etc...what incentive do FOSS devs have to share anything? Near zero.
We're going to see siloing on one end and people using AI on the other to make their own shit for themselves. Everything else in the middle will be a no man's land.
Big tech was already hoarding, FOSS was already under pressure from VC-backed "open core" bait-and-switch models, and maintainer burnout was already a crisis. Now we get to deal with the FuckAI crowd asking "papers please" every 5 mins too?
Thanks, but no thanks. I'll make for me and mine or if I'm getting paid. No good deed goes unpunished.
That kind of matches my experience as well. I'm pretty neutral on AI made apps, maybe leaning a little negative, but a few months back I needed something quick for myself and didn't have a lot of time, so I had Claude make something just for me to use. The app worked pretty well, and I thought that maybe it would be useful for some other people, so I offered it up. No expectations, no pressure to use it. I was upfront right from the start that it was AI created; I didn't try to hide it. I got attacked relentlessly for using AI to make it. I had to delete the post just to make it stop. That really makes me not want to participate any more, even for the Human made stuff I do, since even a little suspicion seems to be enough to bring out the mob.
🎶 No good deed goes unpunished. No act of charity goes un-resented. No good deed goes unpunished, that's my new creed. 🎶
I brought XXXXX into existence
And I can take it out of this world, too
Lol. "Look at it go on my personal project, wow I could never! I am a title worm! Go Sam Altman!" It really does work. What a great term haha
I considered to add that into my substitutions extension, but there might some unforeseen (albeit funny) consequences :D
I've made an open source hello world calendar app in a month in Rust. This language is so hard to understand for me, and I wrote C code for microcontrollers for a living some days of my life... Just can't wrap my head around it.
Guess I'll have to go buy socks and take HRT to finally be able to learn Rust.
Have you read the book? It's a good read and it's how I learnt. I went from knowing 0 Rust to knowing enough to start working on my projects. https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/
Just keep going, the socks and HRT are a random byproduct, not a necessity.
Its just loot that drops when you level up, trust the plan
what made it easier for me was to think of it as design by contract. if you start by describing the interfaces, you can basically autocomplete the functionality.
i wrote a driver for an i2c device in rust because i needed to sanity check my c implementation, and after defining the types of each register i wanted to use i could just ignore types entirely because it all became implicit.
not saying i particularly like how much magic there is in rust, just that i get it.
It's unfortunately on YouTube, but I always found this explainer quite helpful to understand the core concept of ownership/borrowing: http://intorust.com/
(You can skip the first two chapters.)
It just is a different way of thinking and especially veterans struggle with it, because they've got all these patterns in their head that don't work very well in Rust.
I don't know, man if it does the thing I want and it's actively maintained, I don't care if it's written by AI.
You ever seen some enterprise grade code ? It's a bunch of fucking slop just written by humans.
That's not to say I don't appreciate fully human-made open source projects as they are very, cool and show a high level of skill these days
Well I do, because the AI is a clear indication of project culture and the approach to work that they have. That's why I don't use proprietary software were applicable, because of the lack of care, quality or pretty much anything towards the work done.
Open source gave me often a safety cushion of "this is made by someone who most likely cares for the work they do". Now I can't even have that, because any moron with a pulse can "make" a thing/PR/git repo with an irreviewable amount of shit in it, and remove any and all care from the process "as long as the end result is fine 😎". Memory leaks? Optimization? Maintenability? Who cares! I reverse engineered Adobe! I made a new Pokemon romhack, all by myself! I added 12 new feauters!
The amount of times this trust I have, has left me burnt is too much. My first instincts are genuinely to check contributors and .gitignore, to see if I don't have to worry that the project doesn't care for the work it does. It suuuuuckssssss. The lack of AI in a project, hasn't yet given me that negative experience.
The entire technology stole from every single talented individual including actual open source devs. Someone can use it and create the best app ever and I wouldn't care. It's unethical.
The entire technology stole from every single talented individual including actual open source devs.
That didn't start with AI.
That is if you believe "intellectual property" to be an ethical concept in the first place. Many in the free software movement do not. Many of us also do not believe copying, sharing, or remixing is "theft." That is a propaganda term from the copyright cartel.
(Note that I think so-called generative AI has many problems but this is not one that concerns the free software movement imho)
I don't think copying, sharing or remixing is theft unless it's done by a big corporation to make money without attribution to my work.
That's very brave of you. In the meantime other open source developers will continue using AI models that currently exist to benefit their coding were it can.
"open source developers will continue using AI models that currently exist to benefit their coding were it can" does not undo that all mainstream, commercial AI agents are the product of theft of labor from all the programmers, artists, authors, etc of all the media that the models were trained on.
You can say the ends justify the means, but you have to own that commercial AI agents, and the work they produce when wielded by humans, are a profit engine for thieves. At the end of the day, those programmers are using an AI agent that is being sold to them by a corporation that is profiting off of theft. "But the AI tool works well!" isn't the end of the moral discussion. How did the AI tool get so good at programming?
Copying a FOSS project for personal use and development isn't unethical. Copying the FOSS project into an AI model and then selling that AI model for profit is. And it's been done on a scale that's difficult to fathom and impossible to undo. Persons whose crafts have been irreparably undermined by these models have had their livelihoods impacted and there will be no means of extacting justice from those who have committed to this technology because they are simply too wealthy to hold to account.
If you're a regular guy and you try to download and disseminate information like Aaron Swartz, suddenly the law has a lot to say about intellectual property theft.
If all the IP law was repealed I’d celebrate, but enforcing them on everyone except the worst tech companies is not an improvement.
I don't like how haphazardly AI is being shoved into everything or the way the big AI companies operate but this kind of performative ludditism is not really helping.
As with pretty much all technology the problem isn't the technology itself it's the economic system under which it was created and how said economic system makes use of it. The technology clearly shows at least some promise and could be used for actually useful things at least to a certain point, the fact that the techbros are turning it into a God of their own religion doesn't make that less true.
One cool thing that people are doing with AI is reverse engineering proprietary software and putting it up for free, mostly video games. That directly throws a wrench into the whole IP bullshit and it's making a certain part of the IP rentseeking bourgeoisie shit their pants, that can only be a good thing in my book.
As with the ethics of it all it's messy as with pretty much any commodity produced under capitalism. You never bought a product from a company with unethical business practices before? You never took medicine that was tested on animals? Come on now.
Do you even know what ludditism is?
Yes.
Do you? Pressing X to doubt, champ. Pressing X to doubt.
Quick - to wikipedia!
“it’s unethical”
Uh huh. Which framework? Kantian? Virtue ethics? Rawlsian justice? Utilitarianism? Pick a card, any card.
Lay it out, big man. Nail that shit to the door like Martin Luther.
PS: "I don’t like it" != "it’s unethical"
Christ do we really need to lay out a fucking "framework" of ethicality to come to the conclusion, that no, I don't really like my software to be haphazardly glued together with chewing gum, duct tape and the Environment Destroyer built on billions of lines of code. The licensing issue itself is fucked beyond belief here, and the "originality" of said code.
Fuck me Amazon is literally shredding warehouses of books to keep up this bullshit. So my ethical framework is one that says "Fuck you", to you specifically, the most.
You do when you're talking shit like it's solid gold. Ethics isn't "I don't like it, therefore bad". Bro made the claim...he gets to back his shit up. Or he gets to look like 20 something shouting into the void with penchant for shitty memes.
No hate for OP. But news flash - 99% of all code is AI assisted now. Has been for about 5 years. Sowwy.
You can fuck me if you want, but bring dinner first.
Also, you may want to look into why Amazon is shredding the books, hoss. They’re destroying them because of copyright law. A judge ruled the scanning is only fair use if the original is destroyed.
https://betanews.com/article/amazon-airtag-book-scanning-ai-training/
U got big feelings, babe. We can cuddle after we fuck if you want.
Gotcha, it's legal so it's acceptable. Literal baby ethics.
More like market driven perverse incentives.
Ethics is the study of oughts. That's why the frame of reference matters. Law is the floor. Nobody said legal = acceptable. I said the copyright destruction mechanism is worth understanding before using it as a rhetorical grenade.
So no, you didn't "gotcha". You just wanted to try for a cheap shot / try to put words in my mouth so you could knock down a strawman for the cheap seats.
Some might consider that unethical, big man.
"You argue for something I don't like? You are not human."
User dehumanized, thoughts successfully terminated.
Doubleplus good, comrade.
You feel proud after that reply don't you? We all have functioning brains. I think it's obvious. For example from the Wikipedia page.
- Utilitarianism: "Utilitarianism is a family of theories in normative ethics that prescribe actions that maximize happiness and well-being for all affected individuals."
This one's easy when you consider people that lost their jobs. If you think "fuck em" then think about how many people got affected mentally because of these chatbots. Also I don't think Iranian and Palestinian kids being bombed with the help from AI companies would also feel happy about it.
The entire art industry is damaged beyond repair and it's only getting worse. So many slop movies, music, books, games etc. are being released and it's becoming harder by day to distinguish them from actual art made by humans.
The architects building your buildings, the engineers designing your airplanes or online services, the people running the fucking government are all mostly using AI to do so much that they are slowly forgetting how to do it themselves.
You can't tell me a single fucking good thing large scale generative AI contributed to this world. Don't come at me with marketing bs like some random math problem or "cancer research".
We spent so much money on this bs and we have nothing apart from some broken research and incompetent people thinking they are not. If you are so entitled that you think it doesn't matter to you because you love creating some slop with Claude's arm up your ass then good for you.
Proud? Nah. Bemused, sure.
You hit Wikipedia and looked up utilitarianism. Cool.
Utilitarianism requires weighing all affected parties, not just the ones harmed. AI-assisted diagnosis in underserved regions. Accessibility tools for people who can’t afford specialists. Climate modelling. Translation breaking language barriers. Medical research leading to a Nobel Prize in Medicine.
“Can’t name a single good thing” isn’t a utilitarian argument. It’s vibes. And it’s prima facie untrue. There's not much point in citing counter-examples because you’ve already made your mind up. Cf. your post history on Fuck AI.
The warfare point is a military policy conversation, not a ChatGPT one.
The art and skill atrophy concerns are legit. But that’s a “how do we manage this” conversation, not “therefore unethical.”
Note by the way I haven't personally attacked you or accused you of having Claude's arm up YOUR ass? That's called an ad-hominem - look that up in your next wikipedia search.
this is it. and wherever you see people slapping the work 'slop' around you know they have an agenda, or are running about 12 months behind. new models coding is fucking tits, especially for very simple things like direct DLL ports.
throw into the mix 50 years of dead fucking software that no one is maintaining. we're supposed to protect that from, what? just in case?
tha anti-ai crowd have some points, but they are becoming more cult-like every day.. and theres a big chunk of butt-hurt techies leading the way
They definitely have some legitimacy. It really bores me seeing yet another big tech inspired website alongside an empty readme with basically no human made text or AI disclaimer to be seen.
Remember how everyone became an expert epidemiologist and virologist in 2020?
That's what a lot of the Fuckai noise is. Same Karen energy.
Big feelings, shaky foundations, some real points hidden behind performative tribalism. IOW, another Tuesday on the internet in 202x.
ha, k. if you think ai is literally anything like the maga morons drinking the fox news cool aid, you got bigger problems. ai isnt going to just evaporate like that small subset of idiot humans.
you better fucking buckle up, because the tooling of ai is already becoming ubiquitous and incredibly useful to small businesses. ...and code generation and analysis so well done that google is allowing systems to auto-write their own fucking code.
so you keep babbling on about how useless people+ai is.. the rest of use will keep moving forward.
Beratna, you’re agreeing with me. Did you reply to the right comment?
Kowlting da forata, beratna.
PS: Im pensa na Claude fo da.
ha, prolly not. the replies in this thread seem deeply weird
I understand. It's a deeply weird thread.
We're on Lemmy, boss. We should probably be working instead of shitposting on communist Reddit
shitposting on communist Reddit
haha that made my day
Sounds like cope man sorry
Stay mad, bro. Claude living in your head rent free.
Imagine having to look into someone's account for argument material. Sorry for you man.
Swing and a miss.
Checking post history to see who I'm talking to is called due diligence, champ. You have sadder shit in your profile that I did you the courtesy of not quoting because it's not relevant to the topic at hand.
Man just stop. You are embarrassing yourself even more by trying to act all tough. "Champ" yeah right.
Still no argument, dough.
Play the game not the man, champ.
TTFN!
I feel like you're the bottom half of that shitty meme you posted.
Why can't you just accept that some people feel that they benefit from using AI?
Your thought crime has been reported to the Ministry of Truth. Stand by for re-education.
Billionaires probably also feel like they benefit from contributing to environmental damage and societal collapse like you prompstitutes.
Upvote for "prompstitutes"
How exactly are they doing either of those things?
How's the boot taste
Some people feel like they benefit from reading their horoscope, too.
why can't you just accept that some people feel that they benefit from using meth?
the anti-ai crowd is a cult. youre not going to logic them out of something their emotions are controlling.
If you're fungible for Claude Code, I feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems but Claude Code ain't one.
Ps: am agreeing with you in case unclear.
Funny, I feel like it's the opposite. I appreciate the use of a local LLM over renting GPU time, but unless you trained the model yourself I'm still not in love with the source.
Also it's just made my entire field unstable and less fun.
Even the best LLMs write pretty shitty rust, which is kind of tragic
Well, its trained on shit code, so why expect anything good?
Have...have we considered that 1) Rust is shitty 2) LLMs learned to code from shitty Rust coders?
I would argue against the premise that rust is shitty, but yes, this is absolutely a garbage-in garbage-out scenario (which really makes one wonder about the long-term viability of these things…)
If it quacks like a duck etc etc.
I mean...if the meatbags can't get it right, what chance do the poor clankers have.
