Wages
(midwest.social)
twinkwithahammer
LinkedinLunaticsso you rather waste all the time going through all the interview process for them to reject your offer during salary negotiation phase, and then after enough times they just stopped applying to jobs without a salary range and you are back to your shitty limited pool
If you don't post the salary range, then the person most likely to apply is nobody. Stop wasting people's time for your profit
I this supposed to be some brilliant revelation? Because if this "Expert" just spewed that elementary business theory as some kind of advanced thinking, I'd throw him out of my office.
If you wanted someone making 135k to come work for you, then you should probably pay at least 140k.
Greed. The answer is always fucking greed.
I know plenty of people who would go from $130k to $90k if it meant a better / less stressful work environment.
It's almost as though you're not supposed to get that person because you're not fucking paying enough for their talent… 🤔
To be fair, there's plenty of $135k people who shouldn't even be making $40k for their "talent".
Meritocracy is a myth.
I'm only aware of comprehensive data for the USA, but see historical ceo-to-worker compensation. Note the extreme compensation explosion after the year 1994, which is shortly after the much more comprehensive executive compensation reporting rules were implemented (1992-1993).
Now, correlation isn't causation, but it would be a hell of a coincidence. Imho anyone who argues for salary ranges not being disclosed is trying to suppress wages. Whether deliberately or through ignorance.
So you waste your time interviewing the 135k guy and he obviously rejects your shitty offer?
Charitably the best i can come up with at least the business would know they're not offering enough if people keep rejecting them. But then that's the status quo and all evidence points to wage suppression so clearly they're just making up bullshit to justify wage suppression.
My wife applied to a job this weekend, no salary mentioned at all and a required field on the form was her salary expectation that would only permit a single number, no letters, not a range.
They're hoping to somehow talk $135k guy into it.
They'll bait the hook with things like "unlimited" PTO because there is a chance the reason you're interviewing is for an easier work environment, not more pay.
It won't work most of the time but that's why it's called fishing and not catching.
yes, so they can then post about how nobody wants to work anymore
I think that's the implication, yeah. Seems like this guy needs to get taken out on a walk to the end of the pier on a nice day. Go see all the pretty fishes. Maybe watch the sunset.
"If people knew I was going to underpay them, they wouldn't apply for a job!" 🤡
Paying for the true value, what a concept
So, he wants to hire a person who is valued at 135k for 90-110k.
Once hired, he becomes a 100k guy and they suddenly want to pay them 70.
he wants to hire that 135k person at 75k.
No, it's even worse, what he wants that 135k person to go through the application process.
The guy seems to be from a placement agency so he doesn't actually care that the 135k applicant is going to tell the hiring manager to fuck of at the end of the application process when they get a 110k offer and thus not get hired, what he cares about is being seen sending tons of applicants.
He literally has different motivations than those doing the hiring.
I interpret this as the company willing to pay more if there's an exceptional match, but posting ranges practically filters these profiles out.
But yeah, I'd be happier to actually see these ranges, way less room for companies to lowball you.
Then they are bad at posting ranges and should post better ones. The upper band of the range should be for exceptional matches.
Not posting salaries shows an utter lack of respect for my time.
I remember when I was working as a contractor that I would simply not deal with certain placement agencies after they sent me towards positions which were way below my rate and wasted my time on it.
In fact it's generally a pretty good red flag on an agency or potential contract that they're not willing to tell you early in the process what's the range of rates for the job.
Yeah when I was working with recruiters the first question out of my mouth was "what's it pay?" Eventually got down to primarily going through one agency where the guy knew not to fuck me around but I made up for any annoyance that may have caused by being reliable. That was the only recruiter I ever dealt with who gave me multiple postings at a time to choose from.
Oh it absolutely does, but sadly enough they have plenty other ways to waste your time.
Then post a second listing and pay range for a senior role. If someone applies for senior, treat them based on the upper requirements for the upper pay range.
At this point I'll be happy if they can tell salaries during the first interview, rather than having 3 rounds to then offer half of what I told them I earn on my first call
Yeah ... if you want a 135k person to interview, you... move the range to 135k. fucking shocking how that works.
"People don't want to work anymore"
Says the company who keeps pay at $12 per hour and wonders why only barely competent people are employed there
do they even care about barely competent? We are in such an age of enshitification you don't even need to deliver what you promised and your customers have to live with it.
The person making $135k probably keeps scrolling.
This is nonsense from the very beginning. Of course they'll keep scrolling, would you accept more than 30% pay cut when you already have a job? I wouldn't, for pretty much any position. Even if you're being selfish and choosy, you want to filter them out so it doesn't waste your time.
I mean, if you're already scrolling for job positions making $135k, you're probably not doing it for a raise. It's probably because you're not happy in your working environment.
Still though, I would argue it speeds up the process to post the salary. Because if your 135k dude comes in for an interview and hears 90k, they'll bounce anyway, and we'll all have had our time wasted.
🤷♂️
I would love to be making 135k. And I would be very content. But A) baseline cost of living is different everywhere, B) Some people support big families on one salary, C) Some people have others that they care for with chronic health or developmental issues that are very costly, etc. So not everyone would necessarily be content at that salary. Plus, if you are making 135k and you CAN be making more, there is no reason not to be looking for opportunities to do so. There is no honor in making less than you are worth to someone else just because. Job hopping to get that raise is very much perfectly reasonable. And having more than you need means you can be generous and give to those who don't.
You're missing the point, the big point was the second paragraph, starting with "still though".
Even being unhappy I'm not switching jobs unless there's going to be a pay raise. No guarantee the new place won't be worse. Unless I somehow manage to land something that pays the same but lets me just fuck around all day.
Have you been in a situation where you were unhappy at your workplace?
Yeah. I'm literally in my workplace and unhappy as we speak.
That sucks. I hope that turns around for you one way or another. 🫂
Not happy in my work environment here. I’m not quite to 135k but I’m over 100k. I’ve scrolled through looking at jobs and still skip jobs that pay 30k less.
I'm sorry you're not comfortable at work, first of all. But yeah, isn't it great that you wouldn't waste time going to interviews for those low paying jobs? Win win for everyone.
I'd take a 30% pay cut for the right job but I am not sure if they really exist and are something I could realistically get.
Quality control for an escort agency
Everyone wants nugget numbers posted on every menu.
Fair enough.
Here's the question:
If you post chicken nuggets are 3 piece or 4 piece who is more likely to order?
The person who wants 2 pieces is going to get a good deal.
The person who wants 6 pieces is going to need to order two.
So your customer base isn't the purchasing pool because you won't convince the 6 piece person to come in.
It's the people who only want 2 nuggets that are willing to order.
That's the difference.
Nugnomics
lol good thing salary ranges are required in the EU now
https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/new-eu-rules-pay-transparency-explained-2026-06-05_en
That is a very long-winded way to say you want to hire people for less than the minimum amount of money you think they are worth.
you want to hire people for less than the minimum amount of money you think they are worth.
I don't think that's it.
That guy seems to be from some placement agency, so what he wants is to "send those people to the application process".
He doesn't really care that they're not going to hire them either way (since even that 135k person gets to the end of the application process and gets an offer they're going to tell them to fuck off because it's too low) he just cares that the in the part which is his responsability the result is maximum throughput even if it gums up the system further down (because too many candidates aren't suitable).
It's very much the typical corporate-world / outsourcer "I get my numbers high (and thus get a bigger bonus) and though luck if the rest of the system is fucked" mindset.
This guy later:
Nine people ghosted me after I offered them a job. People just don’t want to work anymore.
That's too many words to say "I'm a piece of shit".
It's like watching a child try to stack blocks.
So instead you are going to spend how many hours interviewing people who will just turn down the lowball offer?
Then you can say things like "people dont want to work anymore we need ai"
"people dont want to work anymore we need ai which costs us more than if we didn't lowball our potential employees, but hey, the investors are happy."
FTFY
@socsa It's not just about saving *that* money though.
Anyone that accepts the lowball offer is either ill-informed, or desperate, and they would prefer desperate employees because desperate employees will bend over backwards and suffer any amount of injustice or mistreatment just to keep their job.
That's what H1B's are for.
He just needs something to do, otherwise he is gone.
Almost realized their problem is expecting higher talent at lowballed prices.
I'm almost convinced this guy realizes it?
It's so on the nose, surely no one is that dense
There are people that you can ask about homelessness and they will, in total lack of self awareness, wonder why the homeless aren't cashing out their trust funds to stabilize their financial problems.
Please tell me you’re kidding.
you meet people who have never felt hunger in their lives and it's very surreal.
When have you met these people?
mostly at church. but also school.
I have coworkers who are only there for the adult day care.
Just checked out his profile and he seems 100% sincere, unfortunately
Recruiters, HR and consultants are very often psycho and sociopaths, they kind of can't do their jobs for very long and not be... so... no, yeah, they are that dense, if by dense you mean craven and morally bankrupt.
You would be shocked how sometimes that is true
So close to being self-aware.
Because its not the low-ball wages that are the problem, it's being honest about them that's the problem /s
All you're gonna do by being dishonest like this is waste people's time and make them avoid you in the future.
They genuinely believe this.
I interviewed at a place a few weeks ago. They promised everything I wanted - mostly remote, salary range what I was looking for, and so on.
Did the full circuit: initial screening, initial tech call, then a ~4 hour tech challenge + talk with the team, team lead and finally the CTO.
The CTO, at the very end, tells me that the salary range actually tops out £10k below the minimum they advertised (£60-80k instead of the advertised £90-120k) AND that remote work would look much different - they need people 4 days a week in the office plus at least 2 weeks a month full 5 days. Basically, if you're lucky, you get the inverse of the advertised 1-2 days a month from the office...
Of course I stood up and left, but these assholes are banking on people being desperate enough to ignore massive red flags like constantly being lied to from the very beginning.
Company name, please and thank you. Your experience is worth little if you don't share the company name.
I would usually agree, but this company seemed vindictive enough to try and corner me legally if I shared details.
don't be a dick don't be a dick don't be a dick
Well, I suppose that's the whole point of the imbalanced power dynamic, and the only way to make changes will be to all potentially make personal sacrifices for the collective good, but sips tea, that's just like, my opinion, man.
You have to start black balling these companies. Leave named reviews everywhere.
I agree. Are there sites that do reviews? Glassdoor got bought out awhile ago and is deeply enshittified
Well that would be going straight on Glassdoor and similar with no punches held if that happened to me
Absolutely disrespectful behaviour to brazenly lie to candidates
There ought to be a law against that kind of bullshit advertising.
(Parse that both ways: 1. Maybe there is one if you look hard enough for it, and 2. If there isn't then maybe it's time to talk to a legislator about crafting one.)
Not to give you homework in particular.
Bait and Switch is illegal, and you don't have to look very hard to find it.
If you had the initial offer in writing I would email it to them and say you'll take the job for no less, and based on their response and your local laws, take it to either a lawyer, a minister of parliament, or the reviews section of any site they post their jobs.
Maybe even CC somebody important for extra spice
Sadly no writing, only got told over the phone...
Them bastards
Sounds exactly like a Bait and Switch, no?
Getting applicants isn't the purpose of the hiring process, getting the actual people working for you is the purpose of the hiring process.
Even if you don't publish the offered rate and thus get some of the high flying talent to apply and all the way through the interviewing process, they're still going to tell you to fuck off when you offer them less (in this guy's example, 20% less) than what they're already making.
Sure, you get more applicants, what you don't get is the persons you need hiring any or any better. In fact, it's probably slower (because you're wading through inapropriate applications), wasting your time and that of those applicants who are never going to accept that job, so you're both worse off.
Anybody hiring who falls for this guy's (who is seemingly from some placement agency) bullshit doesn't know what the fuck they're doing and should not have such responsabilities.
Yes.
Now finish that thought
That's... uhh... the point. For both companies and applicants.
If an applicant wants to accept a lower paying position for whatever reason, they'd still apply.
If a company doesn't want to pay above $X, then they won't waste time interviewing people who wouldn't accept less than $X.
I hope that's a satire account. If your target applicant is someone currently making $135k, then you'd better fucking be offering at least $150k, and even that's lowballing it in my opinion.
If an employer is expecting someone to change companies and possibly locations to come work for them, they'd better be offering more than a $1250/mo pay raise. If they're offering a pay cut, forget about it.
A decent government would require employers to list salary ranges and make it illegal to go any lower than what they say in the listing.
And if you don't list wages, you'll get exactly the same talent pool (at best), but you waste the time of people who are already earning more.
And then they get pissed off, never consider the recruiter again, and that recruiter ends up with a green circle.
What's a "green circle" supposed to be?
LinkedIn allows people to put a green circle around their profile picture to indicate they're looking for a job.
I don't get it, does he get off on wasting people's time?
If you want the $135k person, you need to offer them a bump from where they are currently to cover the unknowns of a new job
Especially given the state of the worldwide economy right now, I can't imagine any normal situation where you'd be able to negotiate someone's salary to 15-30% less than what they're already getting without offering some pretty substantial additional perks of equivalent value to bridge the gap.
If someone tried anything like that with me I'd probably end the interview on the spot. Though I'd probably not have even accepted the interview without knowing the range
If they're gonna try and short change you whilst trying to attract you into the business, it's gonna be a whole lot worse once you're dependent on the job.
Sure I’ll take the cut from 135 to 125. You’re ok with me cutting from 5 days to 3 days of course.
Also - always inflate the salary you tell recruiters (if they pressure you into it) unless it’s public data.
This has been exactly my pitch to recruiters who are trying to get me to take a pay cut. I could easily live on half my wage if I was only working 2 and 1/2 days a week and could supplement with the hobbies I have that I both enjoy and can make a little bit of cash.
Not a single one has even considered it. Even those offering half what I'm currently making.
Playing devil's advocate, the reason they would probably give off-the-clock is that it would make you more likely to get a second job they'd be competing against, and they don't want to invest in someone who turns around and leaves in a few months.
This is really a tacit acknowledgement that they know they can't compete if you aren't struggling and have the resources to leave when they try to squeeze you. They don't care about the work product, they are looking for slaves.
Yup. This is it.
And then a few months later they bring me in on a consulting gig where I will make as much in a month or two as if they had hired me for that half-time position all year.
And I will be fixing whatever the person they hired in my stead built out of bubble-gum and duct tape.
business smarts!
The horror of being honest in negotiations
It's worse than that. They need someone for a position. But they can't even be honest and open in the advertisement of that position! Talk about starting a professional relationship off on the wrong foot, when your future employer is dishonest from the very beginning...
That deserves firing.
Out of a cannon into the sun
Unexpected futurama!
So you would rather waste everyone's time and go through interviews, just for the applicant to decline based off pay?
Middle management is really trying to stay relevant in the face of AI, huh?
80s business guy here... He's not just a dick. He sounds like a fucking moron.
If you don't post the salary, as soon as you ask the talent making 135k what their salary expectations are, your conversation is over. They are out of your range. You don't pay enough to earn their talent. They are not going to accept a 19% pay cut for you. You and your pay range are the problem and the reason you don't attract such talent, you absolute baffoon, not the transparency.
I can picture John now, saying all this to his golfing buddies at a driving range, like he's a genius. One of them says "Hey John, that's excellent! You should post that on LinkedIn!".
Did he just managementsplain supply and demand?
In my region, it's legally required to post salary ranges.
It's a diversity/equality thing, so we get to report the missing ones as sexism.
90$k to me who is poverty, it seems like a huge step up. The fact of the matter is though, is that I could have a disposable income on top of being able to pay for bills and groceries if I was making 31.50$ an hour, not even working full time, at 20 hours a week, 4 hours a day. Then if I was making 41.50$/hr I could have a savings, on top of a disposable income, on top of being set with my bills.
That's how I look at it. I want to get to where I can have all three and live comfortably and not have to worry as much.
Guys, if you put the salary in the advertisement people that are worth more than that won’t even apply. You don’t even get a chance to guilt them into maybe taking the job just for now. Maybe you can make them feel desperate in the moment so that they lower themselves for you. I mean, really think of the business.
less money may mean less responsibilities. the person making more money may still apply
What about the most experienced who couldn't even bother to write a resume and would rather do gardening than deal with all that bullshit? Maybe money isn't the big deal you thought it was. The world is changing and people are starting to get sick of hearing about wealth and are now starting to shoot for community happiness.
In my view, this way of thinking makes a less obvious mistake, which is also reproduced in the comments. It assumes that someone would change jobs only for a higher salary. However, some people would also accept a lower salary in exchange for better working conditions.
Fully agree. I was in this situation where I could afford a modest pay cut just to get out of a toxic work environment. It was worth it too! I am so much happier in my work.
I think the problem is that you don't pay enough but i am not totally sure yk
So someone currently earning 135k should waste time and resources to apply to a job that will never pay somewhere close, just so you can get what?
This is excellent! It gives people with no job an important salary as they continue to like for a job they'll stay at.
Because they're definitely not staying, and they're definitely gonna keep looking, but the rent will at least be partially paid.
There is a very specific subset willing to take a pay cut for a job and they are the ones that never have to apply or respond to job postings.
Opensource LinkedIn:
https://github.com/wintermeyer/vutuv And https://github.com/Haui1112/FediWork
Hopefully this is a start for future users.
Lol can't even remove the tracking crap off the end that tells us you just asked an LLM instead of using your brain or a search engine?
?utm_source=chatgpt.com
You should be ashamed, ChatGPT boy.
Your links have trackers, everything after and including the question mark is not needed (especially chatgpt google analytics 🤮).
Cleaned up:
https://github.com/wintermeyer/vutuv
https://github.com/Haui1112/FediWork
Done.
Thanks I'll update
