SorosFootSoldier [he/him, they/them]
ChapotraphouseSucks.
Shock doctrine again. Many will die. Civilians will suffer. Children will be hurt. The USA might make slightly more money.
yup yeah, expected. and as expected, chuds will pretend venezuela doesn't exist anymore.
GODS FUCKING DAMMIT
Lula please get nukes asap
He can have nukes once he purges the military and police of all the fascists
You could've provided a link to the actual article, but you chose not to, just a picture of the headline.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/venezuela-rodriguez-pledges-to-return-nationalized-assets-to-former-owners/ it's right there?
Thank you.
yw
another case of hexbear users reading a headline and then making assumptions. they are talking about privatizing non-essential assets which are derelict factories that have been unable to be productive due to sanctions.
all of the oil, gas, and mineral contracts are temporary leases from the state owned company, not privatized. maybe you all should try to read and investigate things before jumping to conclusions, for once.
I notice they didn't even bother posting a link to the article. It's almost like they know the article just states that this isn't actually the big scary thing the headline makes it out to be and is just part of the "agreements" forced onto them by the US in April.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/venezuela-rodriguez-pledges-to-return-nationalized-assets-to-former-owners/
And even then the headline is just "Politician says words." Not "Politician signs action into law" or anything like that. It was just a random soundbite from a speech she gave. And the actual quote:
“I have ordered the evaluation of non-essential state assets to be offered to the private sector or returned to their previous owners,”
So this isn't even a thing that is happening, it's an "evaluation" of which non-essential state assets might get returned to some complaining American gusano to shut the yanks up for a bit. Shitty situation? Sure, but every time these people act like she's some grand backstabbing mustache twirling evil villain, but don't actually bother to investigate, just read an inflammatory headline. And every time it turns out less that she's some evil villain doing pointlessly evil things (that the people of the country don't oppose for some reason) and more that Venezuela has a gun to their head and is trying to do the bare minimum to keep the yanks happy and bide their time.
If the people of the country support (or tolerate) what is happening, then that's what we should be looking towards. That's what matters here. Not this Great ~~Man~~ Woman theory bullshit where she is personally tearing down everything good because she's an evil villain and the people of Venezuela aren't as alert and aware as ME, the superior western armchair leftist and so they just don't notice.
Venezuela has a gun to their head and they're complying to minimize damage rather than have the country devastated by an American war. It's hard for me to imagine many of their industries doing well after their country has been bombed like Vietnam or Korea. Selling some industry to the Americans and surviving seems like the less bad of two awful options.
at this point I think the big thing is that this is just a forum with regular libs on it, despite there being some undercurrent of serious Marxists who are applying a standard of analysis that is frankly unimaginable to non-Marxists.
These people live on headlines, its all they've ever read. Even their self identity as leftists is based on the headlines, quotes, and snippets without ever seriously attempting to study and understand. They haven't ever organized, they have barely read a book, its all just ideas in their head which have no basis in a real, material world. Stumbling across this forum and making an account is not hard, neither is deciding you are a leftist without a coherent idea of what that implies.
to expect them to read words and interpret them as they are without instantly applying their head canon is too much. they don't want to be accurate, they want to be right, and since they've already decided that Venezuela is a colony and that every Venezuelan is an idiot, to admit they don't know shit and don't have any grounds to speak on it would be a step towards personal accountability that is out of the question. Being a better person is out of the question.
I don't think people upset about perceived/imagined capitulation to US empire can or should be characterized as libs.
That's an ultra position. As far as they're concerned, any retreat from full communism is a betrayal.
I mention the ultras in my response to the next comment. I think there are both libs and ultras here, but in some ways I think ultras are libs too because instead of applying a materialist analysis they are being idealists. they are dogmatically trying to apply ideas they have no experience with, not realizing that the ideas aren't universal for every material circumstance. it is liberal in the combat liberalism sense
The key difference is that ultras can read combat liberalism and conclude that Rodríguez is a liberal they need to combat.
I really don't they can be put in the same group. These are not opinions borne from passivity or indifference or personal interests or opportunism or half-heartedness or pride, they come from feeling indignant at every retreat as if it is counter-revolutionary and harming the interests of the masses. In fact, they engage with strategic retreats as if they are combating liberalism.
misinterpreting a text to fit it into your prescribed worldview is liberalism. thinking that you can read a book written in China and apply it to Venezuela without being a member of the Venezuelan revolutionaries who have an understanding of their own material conditions is liberalism. Book worship is liberalism. Thinking that you have any right to feel indignant about a situation you created in your head is liberalism. Thinking that a strategic retreat is liberalism, is also liberalism.
ultras are almost always people who have no direct experience with organizing in general, but particularly with the subjects they are trying to opine about. thinking you know about a place you've never been, a people you've never met, a history you've never studied, is, well you get it
edit:
The key difference is that ultras can read combat liberalism and conclude that Rodríguez is a liberal they need to combat.
just want to be extra clear, if you read combat liberalism and then conclude that a person in a country you've never been to and have no relationship to or knowledge of is a liberal you need to combat, you have a parasocial relationship with that person and it is a sign that you need real help. Mao was talking to Chinese communists about their work together in China. If you think Mao was talking to you, a (probably white) person in 2026, about Delcy Rodriguez, you have fully given up on reality
Honestly, I didn't take any of that away from combat liberalism. Mao mostly described feckless weasels and backbiters and prideful little worms that go-along-to-get along and are always looking out for themselves before the masses or the struggle.
The main difference, I think, is liberal types will drag the movement down into liberalism. Ultras won't do that, they'll split and form their own anti-revisionist/anti-liberal/anti-sectarian (lol) splinter group. They're infantile, but present their own distinct problems.
I think this is a bit simplistic, plenty of people who I would consider well read and (usually) well researched seem to have fallen into this "She is an evil traitor Great ~~Man~~ Woman personally destroying everything in Venezuela" level of "analysis" of the situation. There's more to it than people just being ignorant and refusing to change their minds.
I think it comes from a place of people being genuinely devastated by the idea that the US can just threaten a socialist country and force them to roll back progress. Or possibly people who see that willingness to work with the US instead of getting their country destroyed as a "betrayal" itself. But this isn't proper analysis, so it leads back into liberalisms like Great Man Theory. I've seen quite a few users strut around declaring victory because the "coping" stopped. I personally have stopped trying to argue with them for the most part since they've obviously not interested in listening or understanding, just declaring the villain of the week and blaming her for all the problems instead of focusing on the US pressuring Venezuela and looking at the Venezuelan people's attitudes towards all this.
It's disheartening to see people whose analytical skills I previously respected fall into this trap, but it's also important to try and figure out why it would happen, why this error in their analysis that has lead them back to simplistic liberal understandings, since there's probably quite a few ways you or I could fall into that same trap if the situation were different (I might've fallen into the same trap if this situation were happening in Cuba for example). We do need to examine and question our own analysis at all times and be willing to change our minds with new information, the only way to combat the liberal in your head.
I think it comes from a place of people being genuinely devastated by the idea that the US can just threaten a socialist country and force them to roll back progress. Or possibly people who see that willingness to work with the US instead of getting their country destroyed as a "betrayal" itself. But this isn't proper analysis, so it leads back into liberalisms like Great Man Theory. I've seen quite a few users strut around declaring victory because the "coping" stopped. I personally have stopped trying to argue with them for the most part since they've obviously not interested in listening or understanding, just declaring the villain of the week and blaming her for all the problems instead of focusing on the US pressuring Venezuela and looking at the Venezuelan people's attitudes towards all this.
In a weird way, I also think it's cope for having supported Maduro. I still can't come up with any good analysis that implicates Rodriguez but not Maduro. So much of "Rodriguez betrayed Chavismo" analysis ends with "this actually started under Maduro" if you dig deep enough, and if they were more intellectually honest, they would go, "Maduro betrayed Chavismo."
I think we can have serious discussions of what constraints Chavez had to deal with that neither Maduro nor Rodriguez could overcome or how Venezuela's proximity to the US mean that any Venezuelan socialist project will always be compromised. But someone who's blaming Rodriguez while ignoring Maduro isn't doing serious analysis. It's like someone who thinks the new houseowner who has only owned the house for a week before it collapsed should be blamed for the house collapsing and not the previous owner who has owned the house for more than two decades. They want the W for predicting a Rodriguez betrayal but not the L of having supported Maduro for the past 7+ years.
I just mean people here on hexbear in general. I know comrades IRL who tend to lean towards ultra in some way and are typically well informed but also like to gossip and make quick assumptions. The difference with them is that we are communicating as humans and they are open to being wrong or hasty.
There are some here who are blatantly misinterpreting info, fabricating their facts, editorializing, and getting called out for it which they never acknowledge before just doing it again. They also seem like ultras but in the online version which can never communicate as a human and be open to being wrong or hasty.
If they aren't ultras, they probably have ulterior motives which I won't speculate about. Either way, it is a toxic example of poisoning the well, and manufacturing consent for well meaning leftists to feel like the "normal take" is that Venezuela is cooked. They are actively promoting an idea that we should abandon our support for Venezuela, and to me, this is reactionary. Even if they post other comments on other topics which don't seem reactionary, they are so committed to being wrong about this and spreading verifiable misinformation that it is hard for me to see it differently. This is why I make it a point to always push back, because other people get tired of doing it and I don't want the only narrative here to be one that is anti-internationalism, anti-solidarity, and parroting US state department lines on Venezuela. There are surely well meaning but uninformed people here who deserve both sides, at least.
We do need to examine and question our own analysis at all times and be willing to change our minds with new information, the only way to combat the liberal in your head.
I agree with this, which is why my position from day 1 has been that I stand with the masses, not the party or the politicians. They are the guide here and they are still behind their government, so I am looking to see why based on what information we have available.
Yeah, while I haven't seen anyone here directly say it, if Venezuelan socialism is "over" they just don't know it yet, then there's no point of any of us trying to help them in whatever way we can. And if it is an evil villain compradore causing it, we don't even need to feel bad about not doing anything, we can just be mad at the evil villain for being evil and enjoy some of that delicious lib righteous anger. I think we've spoken about this before. I don't think anyone on Hexbear is deliberately trying to convince people to abandon any support for Venezuela, but as any of us should know interacting with libs, it doesn't matter how you feel internally about a situation, it's your words and actions about it, the things you actually express to the world that will affect things.
Personally, I'm starting to think that this Delcy stuff started a psy-op. Convincing people to abandon a socialist country because their leader being an evil traitor to the cause is textbook CIA pushing people into the compatible left. Not that I think anyone on here is a fed, just that they got the ball rolling on this and it has infiltrated a lot of leftist spaces. In every online leftist space I've seen (and many spaces IRL) the main "discussion" about Venezuela has been whether Delcy this one person, is a traitor responsible for destroying Chavismo or not. Not talking about how we can support Venezuela in these tough times, or try to lessen the US pressure against them, or what aid we can provide them or how we can educate non-socialists about the situation. A ideal situation for the feds, getting people to waste time focusing on something irrelevant and idealistic instead of actually focusing on trying to build international solidarity with the people of Venezuela.
And thank you for always pushing back, I've grown too tired of it and since Hexbear isn't an actual org, I don't really see a need to waste my time getting into slapfights. I can deal with libs or someone IRL, but I find it too disheartening to see people on here refusing to change their ways when they're called out for misrepresenting things, deliberately or not.
I've seen a lot of comments saying Venezuelan socialism is over here, starting in Feb or March. It has been so annoying and honestly heartbreaking knowing that material reality for Venezuelans if they are abandoned. A majority of white people on the internet saying Chavismo is dead because they didn't sacrifice enough civilians is hard to see here every other week for almost a year.
Maybe they aren't being deliberate but if not, their addiction to trying to be right is tragic. Trying to be the first one to predict what happens so you can pat yourself on the back and get upvotes is a pathetic and miserable existence, especially when it is trying to call what will ultimately be the death of innocent people.
When Assad got kicked out, there were people here cheering being right about calling it and essentially supporting ISIS in that moment. They were ridiculing Assad like it was a video game, while ignoring the reality of what was about to happen to the people who were now completely vulnerable to endless atrocities. To not see this and just be cheering online is really inhuman, and someone without a heart can ever be a sincere communist.
Yeah, I think the heartbreak is why so many people fall into this way of thinking, it's easier to point at the movie screen and tell the characters "Don't trust her, she's obviously evil!" and then you don't have to feel bad when bad things happen because "You warned them about the scheming Vizier and they didn't listen." It creates a level of detachment and "hollywoodifies" the situation, where they can imagine "what they would do" in that situation, and imagine themselves as a cool movie badass standing up to the bad guys instead of letting them get away with things.
I can see why you were calling them liberals earlier, some of the comments you've gotten could have the username blocked out and they'd be indistinguishable from what libs on Piefed say about Hexbear. I still would push back on calling them liberals a bit, poor analysis leads people to liberalism, rather than people being liberals (like it is an actual trait of theirs) since any of us can behave like a liberal when the circumstances allow it, one of the most important parts of combating liberalism is fighting your inner liberal after all. The most sure fire way to commit acts of liberalism is to think you could never do such a thing yourself because you unironically see yourself as the One True Communist. Which is probably why there is a lot of overlap between liberals and Ultras, come to think of it.
In another article of theirs I found this about the commission that re-evaluates state assets: https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/venezuela-installs-commission-to-evaluate-state-assets-mulls-possible-sell-offs/
The acting president announced that Venezuelan state assets would be divided into four categories: strategic ones to remain under state control, “strategic alliances” where the state retains ownership but management is turned over to the private sector in concession-type deals, “non-strategic” assets to be fully privatized; and assets to be liquidated or reincorporated elsewhere.
The question then becomes where the line is for a "strategic" asset. In the article a consultant suggests steel and cement as sectors that can see (partial) privatisation, perhaps the "derelict factories" you refer to.
From what I understand there has already been an unstable mix of state and private control in various primary sectors, a tug-of-war that the PSUV wasn't able to overcome before a 10+ year string of crises and sanctions put the "Venezualan path to socialism" on shaky ground (sometimes literally). So this would be more like a shittier version of the status quo rather than a full 180, in my view.
My overall impression of Rodriguez' government is of one backed into a corner and determining itself too weak for maintaining the status quo and gambling with concessions to build up better conditions and morale. Hence viewing themselves as Lenin with Brest-Litovsk or Deng with Reform and Opening Up. The fate of that gamble is uncertain and will also determine if Chavismo failed in its bet on bending the bourgeois state rather than overthrowing it, as that rendered it vulnerable when the crises hit.
All we can look to is what we know, and unfortunately there has been little detail made publicly available. What we do know, is that they are clearly differentiating between what they think is important to keep and what they are willing to sacrifice in order to be seen as "changed enough" to continue getting sanctions lifted, economic stimulus, infrastructure repair, and they are openly trying to get the gold back as well. They are absolutely backed in a corner but they are pretty clearly negotiating from a position that still maintains a desire to get something that will benefit Venezuela, which we've already seen in their ability to turn back on entire electricity plants that had been shuttered due to sanctions, restoring electricity that has been unstable for years to millions of people. They have already rebuilt and repaired hundreds of homes since the earthquakes. They have stabilized inflation, increased economic input, and made a lot of promises that they seem keen on delivering.
As far as what each asset is, the only public articles I've seen so far have said that every oil, gas, and mineral contract so far as been a lease, as well as the only factories I've seen mentioned. Every single one is described as a 15-30 year contract which essentially means a private company is going to rebuild and repair industry that has been shut down because of sanctions, or build new infrastructure. In every case, the lease is with the state company. This is all the info I've been able to find, if someone else sees any evidence of anything specific being privatized, we can look at it when it happens. China has private businesses, small businesses, factory owners, etc. A country decimated by decades of sanctions bringing in private investment to non-essential assets isn't the death knell of a movement made up of millions of people.
Are the last holdouts defending her finally going to stop at this point?
It was getting downright embarrassing around here how one would get pounced on, told to shut up (literally) and showered with abuse for having the gall to suggest that maybe Delcy Rodriguez didn't have the best interests for the revolution in mind when she was opening up Venezuela to foreign capital (US imperialism) and giving warm compliments to the US president responsible for her predecessors illegal kidnapping and torture. It wasn't possible to have any conversation rooted in dialectics without being told you were an instigator (a word no doubt used to get around the no fed-jacketing rule) non-dialectical anti-materialist, among other worse insults. I would hope those holdouts, are now off sulking in a corner where they belong rather than filling up these threads with their bile and flecks of spittle, maybe even doing some very needed self-crit and learning how to look beyond their own egos and personal desires, but I doubt it.
Though as others have mentioned here, sometimes it still does suck to be right. For all their disgusting abusive behavior, I wish the cope clique had been right, and that Delcy was akshually just hiding her power level and building up the revolution behind the scenes while only putting on an elaborate show for Western imperialism by... readily acceding to all their demands. But no, real materialist analysis predicted this was the most likely trajectory even months ago, and sure enough, here we are.
I was called a "white supremacist" for my position on Venezuela
https://hexbear.net/comment/7509233
also a funny one because you link to a thread where I don't call you a white supremacist. really continuing to prove me right about refusing to read the words before deciding what they mean
Just block them and move on. They have nothing other than moralizing and bad faith insults. They deny what they said, and contort your words into "SO YOU THINK ALL VENEZUELANS SHOULD DIE?!" There's no winning with these cloying and terminably unintelligent people who mistake walls of gishgalloping circular text for analysis. They were wrong and will be wrong next time, nothing to do but block
Just block them and move on.
This really is the best thing to do, yes. Part of the problem is that there was a whole loud clique of them, some of whom I actually did appreciate their analysis on other topics. Fortunately their attempts to silence anyone who didn't buy into their Delcy-5D-chess-theory seems to have significantly diminished now that reality has apparently sunk in, at least for a number of them. But I did block the worst one who was full on harassing me and making it outright impossible to have a conversation especially in the newsmega, the same one who called you a "white supremacist" because you weren't sufficiently sycophantic to a leader selling out her country to imperialism. And judging by the fact I can see a "1 more reply ->" button beneath both mine and your comments, that when clicked doesn't load another comment, I'm guessing it's that same pathetic blocked harasser still throwing a tantrum about this, still attacking me every time I de-lurk to comment. But now that I don't have to read their slander and vitriol, it's actually pretty funny.
Anyway, I appreciate your thoughtful analysis on Venezuela and in general. If it weren't for you and a couple other commenters who would calmly stand up to the polyannish nonsense cohort and offer a more realistic if sobering perspective, I would have ditched the newsmega entirely, which would have sucked because it really is a great resource on the whole.
still getting ratioed on this topic every time but you block everyone you disagree with so now it seems like you are in an echo chamber bigger than your skull for the first time. and if you think I'm being petty go read what this user has said to me in the past and put the pearls back in the bedside table
its all public here so people who know how to read can go and see every exchange, which show undoubtedly that you and your friends have made up shit since day one and that you have consistently made up and intentionally misinterpreted what the rest of us say to justify ignoring us. you have been consistently ratioed in these exchanges, been proven to be making things up, and shown that you have almost no idea about the topic. this has been happening for almost 10 months. you even almost got banned for crashing out at another user over fucking Mamdani. pathetic
its funny that you mention being told to shut up because in that thread you accused me of doing that and I actually didn't. you just make things up and lie about people here and Venezuela and are clutching pearls at getting called out
I'm sure the resident Rodriguez defenders on here will soon be telling us how this is actually 5d chess and I'm a simpleton for thinking this is bad.
it is very simple to read a headline and make an assumption, but very hard to seek truth from facts.
Knew it was coming, but I still don't like seeing it. Ugh. Poor Venezuela.
Honestly, not sure nukes would've helped in this case. They did a special forces raid that clearly had significant help from the inside. Only the Cuban special forces resisted the invasion.
If you have traitors helping the imperialist, they'd just seize control of the nukes or would've disconnect Maduro from being able to launch them.
this is just not true at all. Venezuelans died in that raid and there is not a shred of evidence that there was any inside help. it has been almost 11 months since the raid and the masses and PSUV have remained unified. are you suggesting that the entire Venezuelan left was in on this?
Enough was in on it where the US could succeed at this otherwise highly risky operation
Edit: https://www.aninews.in/news/world/us/history-will-tell-who-the-traitors-were-says-nicolas-maduros-son-after-his-fathers-us-capture20260105090430/
that article is from 2 days after it happened. he is still in government working with Delcy and the rest of the people, almost a year later. None of them have come out with any accusations. Caracas is on the coast and within range of many US bases. It was "risky" in the way that any military operation was, but it's not like Maduro was in hiding. the US had everything they need to pull something like this off, even if it was risky.
History will tell. Either way the human element was the failure point. Getting nukes is good, but nukes would not guarantee safety
I would argue that the failure point has to do with the material conditions of Venezuela, and had little to to with the humans involved in the moment of the kidnapping.
Venezuela is incredibly close to the US. We have seen what the US can do to a nation on the other side of the planet, but we haven't seen the US directly attacking within their sphere of influence in a long time.
Venezuelan leadership has been watching what the US is doing in Iran, and has done in other places, and weighing that destruction against "fighting back," any competent leader would prefer to avoid your nation being firebombed daily, especially after decades of sanctions. Their infrastructure, electrical grid, sewage systems, water treatment, medical system, and domestic extraction ability have all been ground to a snail's pace even before the abduction of Maduro. Getting bombed to shit by planes that can nearly endlessly refuel and rearm is not going to suddenly make you more able to fight back against aircraft. Venezuela was not able to create a military that can withstand the US before this year, so assuming they suddenly would be able to if they just "resisted," is pretty unsound and illogical. Choosing the path of definite bloodshed and mass destruction is not strategic, revolutionary, or anti-imperialist.
There has never been a point where Venezuela could resist US influence, which is why the sanctions have utterly broken the nation and now they are easy to extort. It doesn't mean they are traitors, it means they literally have no options and it's better to hand over the wallet and live another day than to demand your own death. This isn't a movie, these are real people's lives we have to consider.
imagine if they did a special forces raid and Venezuela fired off a retaliatory nuke that hit florida
If you have traitors helping the imperialist, they'd just seize control of the nukes or would've disconnect Maduro from being able to launch them.
And just eat a few nukes if that goes wrong?
they're surrendering with scarcely a fight, PSUV is cooked I'm sorry to say. If you won't fight imperialism what good are you?
do you understand how many people you're asking to die for no material gains?
no material gains? they are handing over their oil industry and natural resources to the imperialists, which is the foundation of their national economy and an original ideological pillar of the Bolivarian Revolution. And I'm not asking them to die, I'm asking the government to at least try to resist, oil isn't going to teleport to Texas, it requires Venezuela's cooperation. But if PSUV still had an ounce of patriotism or revolutionary sprit left they should be willing to die to defend their national sovereignty against foreign aggression, the jackals literally kidnapped their leader and his wife and they're just letting them rot in response
there's no nation if everyone is dead
Workers of the world, you have everything to lose. Submit
who's the 'doomer' now? who's really the 'defeatist' here?
i mean if they wanted to do terrorism i'd be cool with that but asking them to go to a hot war is strategically absurd
there's a whole range of options between "hot war with the USA" and "total surrender of all resources and regression into neoliberal capitalism"
wild ass exaggeration on your second thing there
workers of the world, make huge strategic mistakes that destroy your entire revolution!
if all you can rely on to support your argument is a slogan from 1843, you aren't really selling the idea that venezuelans should be bombed as a form of resistance.
In this trying times is important to remember:
::: spoiler spoiler :::
get nukes asap
Look, i'm trying, and i must be pretty close given that i'm friends with literal physicists, but every time i tell them i want a nuclear program they just laugh nervously and change the subject.
Sounds like they’re hiding something
her friends are a couple weeks away from having the bomb
All I want for Christmas is nuuuuuke
Maybe they're going to give her a nuke for her birthday and don't want to spoil the surprise!
Fuck, I hate when I'm right.
Oh my god it's so over
