Rule the futures of monsters [CW: mentions of SA]
(midwest.social)
ShadowOfMiisha (she/her)
196I couldn't agree more. And I don't think I'm being hateful here, I just honestly believe that monsters like that should get locked up for good. If they prove that they're a danger to other people (in this case, young, innocent women) and society by doing something so heinous, they should get jail for life, not writing essays...
Can we all agree on this?
I do want to bring up, that, from what I've heard, the victim in the Jacob Geller stuff didn't want to come forward about it. I cannot imagine what it's like to become a social media sensation this way. I know the truth is out now, but like I don't think she wants to see randos chiming in with their based opinions on all the terrible things the legal system should have done to her abuser. It just really puts me off that this was released without her involvement.
I've seen it so often that people ignore the victim and instead go about focusing all attention on enacting violence against the rapist. It's basically like a cue for the "good men" to be allowed to pretend to be protectors of women via performative extreme violence against the "bad men." Ofc it isn't just men doing this, but still.
I'm not like an anti-violence person btw I do believe we should have feminist violence, but I believe in the violence necessary to abolish patriarchy, not legalist and performative ultra-super punishment against the endless stream of rapists that patriarchy creates; it doesn't help to whack the moles harder if you don't address why they keep showing up and it definitely can't un-rape people. If we just used half of the mental energy we spend fantasizing about creative ways to punish rapists on actually helping victims... imagine.
bingo, very well put.
I think calling it ruining their futures is an unfair framing. It's applying justice blindly, rather than giving even more to those who've already been given everything.
I had a lot of sex and a fair bit of drugs and alcohol in college, but I never did anything remotely similar to these men because I'm not a rapist. These men made their choices, and if a preponderance of evidence can be obtained they'll financially pay for what they probably did, and if the jury can be convinced they will face the penalties for what they did beyond a reasonable doubt. When all is said and done they're free to rebuild their lives however they can and we should treat them as having paid their debts to society (barring any Brock Turner level punishment)
It's not like they left the victim with an easy future.
I agree with you.
I just wanted to point out something I think a lot of people don't want to confront when they say something like"I've never done anything remotely similar to these men"
You remember not having done anything like the men, and I assume you're talking about the Cornell rapists, but the line is much more blurry than people want to admit.
You don't remember making anyone uncomfortable and I'm not saying the following is true for you because I can't know... But social interactions aren't a flow chart and feedback isn't always clear and this becomes even more true when it comes to sex and emotions.
Maybe you asked too many times and they gave in but to you it was once or twice. Maybe you misinterpreted a signal and they went with it half heartedly. Maybe they didn't say stop or tell they didn't want to because they were afraid it would ruin a good time. Etc. These are all things that could be labeled as sexual harassment and when sex is involved, rape.
Shit can be much more nuanced, awkward and unclear and especially to people who have trouble reading social cues. Women are often afraid to say no because of the potential for violence or more commonly, the social consequences.
It's soothing to demand justice and see situations like that and feel superior to them but I would be willing to say that 90% or more of men have done something that goes right up to the line, especially in college when people are learning to be people and having their first sexual encounters and not having parents etc to hold them accountable.
None of this is to defend rapists and idk the solution outside of raising my son to know what consent is and how important communication is.
They made the choice to ruin their life. Anything else is them evading the consequences of their own actions.
The woman's life is already ruined, so why not ruin theirs too?
(I know their life isn't ruined forever, but it might as well be for the foreseeable future)
Oh no, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions
The woman's life is already ruined, so why not ruin theirs too?
I don't think defining the entire lives of sexual assault victims by their assault, and painting them as foreseeably "ruined", is the cool rad feminist take that you seem to think it is
The woman’s life is already ruined
I think we should leave this to the survivor to decide. I don't want to label her as having a ruined life because this horrible thing happened to her. She's young and they can still have a good fulfilling life, right?
I can't say I've known a sexual assault survivor whose life wasn't wrecked for the immediate future as they came to terms with the assault and having to see their abuser walk around free.
Call it what you will, but I've helped more than one friend through it, so I'll keep it as is.
Maybe it would help if I understood what you meant by ruined? Are you talking overall or only focusing on the immediate future?
Maybe it would help if I understood what you meant by ruined?
Social impact (both negative attention from peers, along with recurring trauma of seeing your abuser get away with minimal punishment), emotional trauma, swlf-harm, loss of ability to trust (especially bad when it was someone you knew and thought was safe), and even impacts to job/school due to the event, to name a handful I've witnessed.
Are you talking overall or only focusing on the immediate future?
Sorry, I thought my parenthetical made it clear I was talking about the immediate future
She's young and they can still have a good fulfilling life, right?
You know that middle aged and older women are also sexually assaulted. Just because there have been lots of news stories about SA on campuses recently, doesn't mean that only young women are being assaulted.
You know that middle aged and older women are also sexually assaulted.
Yes. For some reason I thought we were talking about the Cornell case but I guess my brain short circuited?
Much like their victim it'll take a lot of work to unruin their futures
But it was just one time (that they've been caught)! /s
Exactly. One (actually two) times it has been found out. That's the important and depressing part cause I'm pretty sure this is a common occurrence 😔
Why don't you just shorten their futures?
I like to characterize this as a direct consequence of their own bad decisions, and not something other people are doing to them. They chose to be shit and it only works out for them as long as other shits are there to protect them. Take away that privilege and they whine that they're being victimized when the consequences are no longer deferred.
it's the social contract solution to the paradox of tolerance all over again: you break the contract, you're no longer part of it.
I don't like social contract theory.
no? is there a better way to look at it?
Well the notion of a social contract arose concurrently with the rise of capitalism, and renewed campaigns to force women into spheres of domestic and reproductive labor.
So when talking about women's issues, I don't think Social Contract theory is exactly the gold standard
Yeah I was gonna say, they ruined their own futures
I hate this timeline :((((
Back in the 90's our country (BE) dealt with a case of someone who kidnapped young girls and ...I'll spare you from having to read the rest.
He was jailed, to this day still is. And he probably will be for life. Good. (He'd probably be lynched if he did get out)
It has ALWAYS been the case that this man was regarded as a deep shame upon our country. That he is beyond redemption has ALWAYS been set in stone.
Seeing how discourse has changed globally I'm not so sure that a similar case would get the same propper justice today. I hope/trust the justice system would do it's thing. But the morality of public discourse is slowly eroding.
Diff case more recently: some celeb gets caught harassing women through txt. Half the country just shrugged. Now they even celebrate his return. Wtf.
BE... what country... Belgium?
Yes. Waffles, beer, saxophone, fries and chocolate. A goverment that has more layers than inhabitants. Only half as loud as our neighbours to the north but we're twice as stuck up and repressed about our emotions. Our history is rich and filled with bloodshed (and some dark shame). And our roads are holy. I mean they have a lot of holes in them.
Huzzah, Belgium.
Some decisions will follow you for your entire life. You don't get a pass when you are drugged, fair or not it's all on you. Life is not fair, what you did wasn't fair, what will happen to you isn't fair, and that's the way of the world.
Reporting to the police does not guarantee justice.
FBI crime data shows that law enforcement clears 26% of reported rape cases. In this data, “cleared” may mean someone was arrested or even that the suspect was deceased; it does not necessarily mean the perpetrator was charged, convicted, incarcerated, or otherwise held accountable.
The clearance rate directs our attention to the 74% of survivors of rape whose cases remain unresolved every year. That’s at least 125,274 people who reached out for justice they may never receive.
4 in 5 reported perpetrators are never charged with a crime.
For many survivors, reporting sexual violence means entering a system where the outcome is uncertain. A report may be investigated, cleared, closed, declined, or moved forward—but only a fraction of reported cases lead to criminal charges.
A 20-year review of sexual assault case outcomes found that just under 20% of reported rape and sexual assault cases are criminally charged.
This number points to one reality: many survivors report sexual violence without seeing the person who harmed them formally charged with a crime.
Being believed by police does not ensure accountability.
A 20-year review of reported rape and sexual assault cases found that 89% were “founded” by law enforcement, meaning police determined that the crime more than likely occurred.
But only 8% of reported rape and sexual assault cases ended in conviction.
In other words, police believed most reports, but very few cases led to the perpetrator’s conviction. Survivors can be believed and still not get the legal outcome they seek.
Justice requires more than recognizing harm. It requires systems prepared to move cases forward and support survivors through what comes next.
As someone who didn't get justice I appreciate so much how hard you keep talking about this. I try to be somewhat open about my experiences (both on here and IRL) to break the collective illusion that the police bother investigating sex crimes that aren't easy to prosecute, but the numbers are so important.
Also, I was going to say something about the rape kit backlog, but apparently it's being resolved and multiple states have cleared theirs.
I really appreciate you as well, your comments are always thoughtful and kind. I'm so sorry that you didn't get justice.
Also, I was going to say something about the rape kit backlog, but apparently it’s being resolved and multiple states have cleared theirs.
Thanks for spreading the good news! I hadn't heard of this yet :)
Holy shit...
Thanks for the data girlie, but also that is depressing...and scary. I honestly don't know what I'd do if that happened to me. This country's judicial system is known for giving people who rape CHILDREN, MULTIPLE TIMES just simply...probation. And it makes my fucking blood boil, cause I know I wouldn't get justice. Never mind me, the real victims don't. And that disgusts me...
Thanks Velma 💜
It is depressing, I know and I'm sorry :/
I do strongly believe that more knowledge, more discussion, more visibility will help bring these numbers down. More outrage. More calling out rape culture. More of us saying "What the Actual Fuck" each time a rapist is protected by those in power.
We have strength together.
Don't apologize at all, you're right: talking and discussing these issues is a good thing. I believe outrage is justified, needed and good here honestly. Rape culture is just the worst.
Thanks girlie <3
Specially now that those on the power are the fucking rapists. It's vomitive.
They ruined their own lives. They had a choice.
Well on the one hand if you have an official judgement it should not be reduced just because this will negatively impact the perpetrators life. On the other hand we always need a way to resocialise perpetrators or they will just don't care when they get out of jail. Further we life in a world where judgements are used against minorities or as a political weapon.
The judical system in the US is fucked.
We aren't ruining their future; they are.
If these were 25 year old black dudes at a house party the president would be lining up the televised firing squad.
There are some "mistakes" that simply disqualify a person from living a normal life. When it permanently traumatizes someone, that mistake should follow the person who made it for the rest of their life.
Hard agree
Yes. Or at least I hope so. Presumably there are no criminal judges here as they seem to be the most inclined to the opposing viewpoint.
It is insane to me that this gets hauled out as a reason for light sentencing over and over again. Having an impact on a person's life is literally the point, and here they are openly sidestepping it.
Yes. Or at least I hope so. Presumably there are no criminal judges here
Idk, I'm getting slightly suspicious of the two people that downvoted this...
these people have no problems ruining the futures of countless women and girls. the very least they deserve is the legal and social consequences of their actions.
Couldn't agree with you more ❤️
At least social and legal consequences.
Legal consequences tend to not to discourage rape past a certain threshold. If rapists are legally put to death that makes them more likely to kill the victim.
Surprising no woman: Men are more likely to say they trust how officials handle sexual assault
The survey, which was first shared exclusively with The 19th, found that women are 14 percentage points more likely than men to say they think elected officials have done too little to prevent sexual assault. Women are also 13 percentage points more likely than men to say they think college sororities and fraternities hurt campus culture, and 10 percentage points more likely to say they don’t trust sororities or frats to respond appropriately to claims of sexual assault.
Happened to stumble on this and it's incredibly on topic with the comments I've been fielding today on this topic.
This...doesn't give me hope at all...
Still, it's important to talk about. Thanks Velma 💜
Buried at the end of the article is a badass woman who is refusing to be silent to put a little pep back in your step:
Hunt said she is also frustrated by the silence from men.
“It should not be women’s job to tell you that you have to be pissed,” Hunt said. “You need to hold each other accountable. You need to call out your friends. And when a story like this comes out, you should be some of the first to speak up and say, ‘This is not alright.’ It’s not on your mother, your wife, your girlfriend or your daughter to bring it to your attention.”
“I challenge every man to do that.”
Hunt was involved in the ousting of former Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner, who was accused of sexual assault, and former Rep. Eric Swalwell of California, who resigned from Congress after he was accused of rape and sexual misconduct. Both men are Democrats.
Women are not likely to go silent on this issue soon. Social media and in-person protests on campuses and near seats of power continue to be peppered with women proclaiming that they, too, were assaulted. They, too, are Jane Doe.
“Women are done accepting predators in power, and we are fighting back with every lever available to us,” Hunt said. “We are making sure that violence against women is not just a liability but a dealbreaker for those looking to hold elected office, and this will be a motivating issue in the November midterms.”
Amen to her. We need more people like her, not just women, but men too. All the responsibility should not be on the women...
Amen 🩷
Based
Based? I would hope that this is the default for most people 😭
But I know better, of course, coming from a country that used to treat weed possession (now legal) much more harshly than people literally raping multiple CHILDREN for YEARS (they usually get probation for that for fuck's sake...), so much so that it literally became a dark, fucked up meme among Czechs
I hate this place 😔
Hot take, this should not even have to be a question posed. This should be the default and there's nothing you can say to convince me that a person doesn't deserve the full brunt of the law being thrown down on them for these heinous acts. I don't care who it is, how much money they have, or what position in government they hold.
I agree on everything except the not being hateful part. Not about you, but about how I feel about it and what I would personally do to them if I was allowed to. I'm not afraid of committing evil.
I still dislike committing (violent) evil against evil people. Call me naive, but it just doesn't sit right with me...
What I would do tho is prescribe every single one of these fucking rapists high-dose cyproterone acetate, which is a strong blocker that annihilates testosterone.
Speaking from personal experience (feminizing HRT), it destroys your libido and without estradiol to replace that T-driven libido, they'd be practically asexual. It's called chemical castration and it's extremely effective.
And btw, I really mean that CPA destroys your libido, in those first few months before the E libido kicks in, you don't even want to think about sex. And of course, they wouldn't have the E to get their libidos back.
I mean, they had their chances with libido. They had their sexual urges and they proved that they used those to commit heinous acts, so imo they shouldn't have those urges anymore.
I know this is particularly cruel, because the human body needs a dominant sex hormone. And I'm not suggesting to forcefully transition them and make the grow boobs against their will, I'm just saying to rid them of the ability to do this to other people.
This honestly came out much more fucked up than I expected, but I'll post the comment anyway, because chemical castration is an effective way of dealing with sex offenders.
I draw the line when it's a real state's legal system that's doing this, and when it stops preventing there from being more victims, and when the reasoning is wrong.
Testosterone is not the rape hormone. Removing it does not fix someone's hatred of women.
Good point. However, cases are likely varied and complicated, whether explained by misogyny, compulsions, poor impulse control, bad role models etc. Different cases require different solutions.
chemical castration is interesting because I know some people who are punished with it for some sexual offenses and they haven't become asexual. I would support castration as a punishment if it actually helped, but in my experience of their bodies it just changes the gender expression (including some of the body sexual characteristics) without having that much effect on libido.
Maybe the effects of the drug as a punishment are poorly studied if the subject is inclined to misrepresent changes in libido to authorities.
Personally, I think that chemical castration isn't enough. I support full castration of repeat offenders. When you harm someone like that, you should not have the right to do it again, consensual or not. It should no longer be an option. You've forfeited your right to sex by violating the sacred model of consent. You should not be allowed to raise children to do the things you did to women.
But of course, that's merely a fantasy. Society (men, for the most part) will likely never be convinced that sexual assault is heinous enough to deserve that punishment in my lifetime. I can only hope that changes in the future.
