The problem with this argument is that while it might be objectively correct in the short term it's also objectively self-destructive in the long term. Both for the voter and the candidate.

Because elections are won by turnout. If you don't turn out your base you don't win elections. But your strategy eventually murders your own base. They get dejected, they get disillusioned, they get impatient, whatever you want to call it. And you can't fucking change that. No amount of argument will ever change that. If you keep serving your voters a turd sandwich it doesn't matter how many giant douches are on the other side. Eventually they stop coming to eat.

And that's how you lose really big. Which screws over everybody.

This argument is exactly what enables the establishment democrats to maintain their power. It’s a threat they hold over the American people, and the only winning move is to not give in and vote for them. The fascists didn’t come to power because of the last election, they came to power because of the 5 decades of concessions the American people gave to the oligarchs.

you can argue some perverse version of the prisoners dilemma all you want, but when i said that i will not vote establishment democrat, i mean i. will. not. vote. establishment. democrat.

No, and you are ignoring all history and past elections as are all of the other DNC shills.

There has ONLY BEEN PROGRESION TO THE RIGHT. The overtone window has shifted so far to the RIGHT because ymof you centrist fucks and your capitulating to fascists, that yes, both parties are fascist.

Your stupid argument that both parties are not the same is not something people make. If you go to a party and you want a drink, and you can only have coke or a bottle of dasani water, you are drinking a coke product. You do not get a choice eve. Though they are different.

We are at a point where we are literally running against cyberpedophile Nazis that are doing warcrimes, and establishing concentration camps and your "opposition party" is running on "restoring ACA tax credits"

Since Im just a dumb American who doesn't understand anything, can you please explain to me why the democratic party STRUGGLES to beat what I mentioned above?

Why is their current platform not to "hold immediate trials for treason and warcrimes", "dismantling concentration camps and locations missing migrants" " delivering free healthcare and education like 85% of Americans want" "taxing billionaires and corporations into submission", "stopping support for the most hated country and leader in the world, Israel and Netanyahu"

Please explain

And then Biden took office and he and his DOJ had the full Epstein files AND Project 2025 was openly published and explained and promoted AND Biden said "we have to stop these people" and then did what? That's correct. He did nothing. He had literal documentation that DJT committed wanton infanticide and rape and human trafficking but did nothing. Nothing. Biden did nothing with the Epstein files while Harris told immigrants not to come to the US because we were absolutely going to continue torturing them at the border and nothing was gonna stop them, just like nothing was going to stop the Israeli genocide and the American participation in it.

No, sorry. The Democrats are not "less fascist" just like the Good Cop is still a cop.

The Ds aren't going to save Ukraine either. The parties don't make military decisions, the military does and the parties ratify it. That's why Obama continued Bush 2's projects, including invading Libya, which was on Bush's list but he never got to it. Don't forget Obama refused to give Ukraine any weapons and declared Venezuela a national security threat after Bush 2 tried to coup Chavez. Trump was the first president to approve arms transfers to Ukraine. I know it's confusing because you think the parties are "evil" and "almost good" but they aren't, they are both fascist imperialists and it's why this all happens this way.

It's also why the Obama administration expanded ICE and DHS and then deported 3M people with Tom Homan at the helm, just like Trump used all the Obama-era policies and even appointed Tom Homan himself to run deportations (though Trump hasn't yet caught up to Obama's numbers).

You're falling for the manipulation. You somehow believe that the con artist saying "that guy has a knife, I'll protect you, just give me your wallet" even after that con artist walked away and did NOTHING about the guy with the knife.

The evidence is clear. Both parties are maintainers of the world fascist empire, and one party appeals to the voters with fear of "the other" and the other party appears to the voters with the fear of "being bad people".

They had to recreate their accounts after Yandex was targeted by Ukraine.

Do you notice how many of those hings that establishment Democrats may not have instituted but in no way are they speaking against it or planning to remove them?

They wanted the ICE gestapo to only be 85% fascist, have t said a word about GETTING RID OF CONCENTRATION CAMPS just that they are "inhumane conditions".

You even complain about "ruling without consequences", is that the conservative's fault when your party REFUSES TO PUNISH THEM? the Epstein files showed that both parties partake in all of this, and all of our institutions and agencies allowed it. EVERY DEMOCRAT KNEW and no one ran on ANY of this being their priority and nothing was even leaked for campaigns. What does that tell you?

"Pack the supreme court with fascist friendly “justices” who immediately overturned Roe v. Wade" Yep, they COULD have put in a progressive or "centrist neoliberal" judge but they never did, right? RBG was just too dumb and hard headed to replace with another progressive judge right? Woopsie, the fascists that you are so determined to compromise with lied and fucked us all over anyway. That's what happens when there is WEAK opposition

The literal plan that these fools can come up with during an existential crisis for our country is:

"Restoring affordable care act tax credits", "addressing affordability" and "holding the crooks responsible..."

Those are their statements RIGHT NOW

Out of all of the issues you mentioned. They have that weak ass statement, and a shitty 100 day plan that they came up with 30 DAYS before midterms. THEY ARE FASCISTS

you must be talking about de la cruz or Jill Stein or cornel West.

In many cases, yeah absolutely. In others, the crazy side is a lot more vocal so that's who the candidates cater too. Squeaky wheels and all that.

But my point stands, making demands only has a chance of accomplishing anything if you actually make them to the subject in question. Going to random forums, especially here, and making demands of politicians is silly at best, counterproductive at worst.

Nobody is defending Trump here

Bernie led that charge at the last minute, and it still ignored every other demand they had. Notably, the ones that would have made train derailments far less likely.

Over several decades, progressives are told to vote for the lesser evil, they do, and then the lesser evil helps the greater evil silence progressive voices, so that progressives eventually find out they can't vote anymore.

You don't know what you're talking about.

It blows my mind that these people just won’t even try to understand such a simple concept. Their entitlement, alongside their little purity test cost us not only our democracy, but is RAPIDLY forwarding the environmental damage they pretend to stand against.

It’s mind-numbing dumbassery.

Your point was well said, but it will sadly fall on deaf ears. They don’t want to be told the right way to do things, they want to be told the conveinient way to do things. The way that makes them look good. The way that doesn’t require an effort-

….the way that doesn’t involve sacrifice.

But what if they voted for Harris, while thinking she was a terrible candidate? Did that possibly not occur to you?

What choice did I make?
What minimum effort did I not do?

But what if they voted for Harris, while thinking she was a terrible candidate? Did that possibly not occur to you?

How has the Democratic strategy of "at least we're not the other guy" been working?

Why do you need to be “more motivated” if you care about climate change so much, when the options couldn’t be more clear?

I don't know how I can possibly make this more simple. These people haven't been motivated enough to vote for your party before. You want them to be motivated to vote for your party in the future. Therefore, you need to find a way to make them more motivated to vote for you. That's why. This is not complicated.

You are just making excuses for apathy.

No, I'm simply shifting the focus to where it belongs.

There's a mismatch between what the party does and what the people want, and your solution involves trying to change what the millions of people want instead of changing the handful of people who determine party policy. Not only is that completely undemocratic, it's also completely impractical. Unless you have a magic wand you can wave that will turn millions of people into Lesser Evilists before you'll need their votes, you're gonna have to meet them where they're at and give them things they want. Which is exactly how any democratic system is supposed to work.

It's kind of amazing how entitled y'all are with your party. They're supposed to be "public servants." If a servant's employer tells them to clean something, does the servant say, "It's already clean enough, you need to learn to live with a little dust," or do they do the thing they're being fucking paid to do and clean it again, even if they think the request is stupid? The level of backtalk y'all give to the public is frankly unbelievable. You don't act like public servants, you act like public masters, like you're feudal lords who get to tell us what's going to happen and we're uppity rabble who needs to fall in line. You've got things completely upside down.

Because voters have figured out that voting doesn't fucking matter. Once you realize that a) the country has always been run by a single fascist bloc b) with multiple fascist factions fighting for control and c) fronted by two PR firms with subsidiary PR firms that drive psychological manipulation of voters into believing that d) this time it really is the most important election in history and e) voting will fix it and f) if you vote correctly then the fascists you put in power will stop being fascist and g) actually make structural change - once that becomes obvious, voting is just not something people are motivated to do. And to be clear even people like me who believe all those things vote in vast numbers because it is a ritualized symbol and it has implications in social situations and dynamics. And even still huge numbers of people just don't vote, which means massive numbers of people understand that the system is fully irredeemable.

Well yeah, obviously bullies only bully the nerds because the Anti-Bully Club is so anti-bully. If the Anti-Bully Club just disbands instead of defending nerds, then the bullies will have no reason to keep bullying the nerds! Duhhh! (/s)

You'll never get good faith engagement with ml so all you can do is try to piss em off and waste their time.

LOL. You're fucking amazing. You came to the conclusion that voter turnout programs only exist because they want voters to vote for them but literally won't do anything that those voters want? That's your conclusion? You couldn't reason your way out of a paper bag. Which makes sense because you think an American who has been raised by Americans in America and consumed all the same anti-Russian propaganda you have consumed our whole lives is somehow having someone else's thoughts when they have thoughts that disagree with the propaganda you and I have both been raised on. You are doing the meme.

This is what your commitment to your narrative has done to you. It has made you believe that there is a category of people who don't vote because that is what they prefer, and you're so committed that you are willing to make nonsense arguments that posit the existence of people who eat food but specifically will not and never will eat food if it's in a restaurant.

Nothing about your narrative is reasonable. Give people something they want and they will pursue it

People who don’t eat at restaurants at all are obviously not the same as people who don’t eat at a restaurant that doesn’t exist.

Legitimately don't understand this word salad.

You said you understood that concept but then spent the rest of your comment describing people who want to eat at restaurants.

Someone who doesn't currently eat at restaurants might start eating at them if the restaurants find a way to appeal to them. That's not a complicated concept.

If I'm vegan, and no restaurants in my area offer vegan options, then I am someone who doesn't eat at restaurants at all. If a restaurant opens up that does offer vegan options, or if an existing restaurant adds a vegan option, then I might start eating at restaurants. Do you not understand this concept?

Likewise, someone who doesn't vote might start voting if they're appealed to. This is equally uncomplicated.

If a democrat politician is good than yes I support people voting for them so yeah I am not a cultist. The cultist is dumb people like you who support a one party system.

Democrats and republicans do not exists three and a half years out of every four. The green are in the street organizing from the first day after the end of an election to the first day before the next election . You can keep shaming people all you want and shift the blame from your party failure on everybody else , you ain't going to change shit.

We only have one non-fascist party at the moment

No. We don't. Both parties are fascist. The Nazis studied the American system to learn how to build the Third Reich. The ruling class funded the Nazis in Germany and in the US. The US had a huge Nazi movement domestically. Who got purged? The anti-fascist communists. The US has spent over a century purging communist anti-fascists from all forms of meaningful power - media, art, politics, business. There are no non-fascists left in power. It's just two PR firms selling the same fascism. The Rs are openly racist and the Ds do literally nothing to stop them and in fact create the very systems required for over fascist actions. That's two fascist parties with a Good Cop / Bad Cop routine.

My comment talked about voting for a third party , you completely ignored it and claiming that I support voting for republicans. You basically say yes vote for only one party like China have. You have two terrorists parties who destroyed multiple democracies and countries.

Edible funk and Pratai are the resident DNC bots that harass anyone who points out problems with the democratic party.

Voting for some third-party is a vote for Trump, we all know it.

Voting matters. So does fighting for rights. It's not one or the other.

An absolutely ridiculous thing for you to expect people to believe. So fucking transparent what you're doing. Accelerationist bullshit.

Phew, aren't you lucky my account isn't 2 days older, you would need help counting that high.

Voting does matter, just not if you are so daft that you keep voting the same aholes in regardless of how they perform.

Lol this is what you and your shill buddies do!

"If you don't vote for the anti-facsist party, you're voting for a fascist"

"Anyone who disagrees with my party is a Russian psyop"

Yes, the majority of emissions reduced during the 8 years under Obama were because fracking drove down the cost of natural gas below the cost of coal. The market drove a reduction in a coal usage in favor of fracked natural gas. But of course, that's what happens when the only thing you control for is the one variable that makes headlines.

Speaking of which, during the first 4 years of Obama's fracking boom, no one was measuring the leaks, and leaks from natural gas wells are methane, which traps 8,600% of the energy that CO2 does. They didn't even start trying to fix this until 2016, and of course those fixes were easily rolled back by Trump, because the Ds can always expand the harm, but they can't ever seem to contain it.

Because minor concessions are obvious pandering without real benefit. Give incentives to buy EVs, sure, go for it. But if you expand the military and fossil fuel extraction and then launch wars where you're dropping bombs all over the world it doesn't really matter how many tax breaks you give to EV buyers.

You're arguing with a russian propaganda bot, their whole account is bad faith shit.

That's not what strawman is... regardless, I came here to mock the MAGA dipshits - I didn't check the comments first to see if any were trying to actively engage. Nor will I, as I'm in full agreement with you on being unwilling to associate with those traitors.

Says the child that tried to assume some dumb shit so they could manufacture their own little counter-point and look as if they had a point to ponder.

And you think your little .world account makes you an official American with all rights to comment accordingly? LMAO!

Kick bricks kiddo.

You're saying Kamala Harris as president would be no better than Trump as president. Tbh I don't think that level of stupidity is worth having a conversation with.