First of all fuck this conversation for bringing up depressing statistics.

The 93℅ of convicts being male is something I cannot debate. Even the number of cases being registered brings it down to 90℅, so even if some men are hiding, I don't think the numbers extrapolate below 85℅. Which honestly makes sense, rape is defined by power dynamics, and men are usually stronger than women, and 93℅ number matches closely with the strength distribution of male to female. Which is, 5℅ of women are stronger than 50℅ of the men. So even if I consider female to male rape being under reported, I don't think margin would be that large, and would largely be balanced by women who don't report.also looking up similar data from the EU only makes this case stronger. Only thing I have against the case is some anecdotes I've read when it comes to bars and discos about women being perpetrators far more often than numbers suggest, but like I said, those are anecdotes from reddit, so I'm not giving much weight to it till I see it myself,(or atleast if I see similar point being brought up in different threads). I tried being factual but fuck me for looking up all these numbers.

Secondly, it's complex issue. Your beliefs and Morality is not just in your parents hands, it's also your friends and by large today especially, the algorithm of your feed.

My biggest issue whenever y'all try to send messages like this is, these just never reach the people who need to hear it. As a man, I'm either in a group that's actually full of women respecting people, or a place that doesn't hesitate body shaming women on her freaking face. And I said "place" which means this is a socially accepted behavior amongst almost Everyone there. And what can I do when everyone around me is beyond redemption? I've met a guy who seriously took objection to the fact that most people chose to have their mothers signature in a form instead of their fathers. And yes, he was being misogynist, and he almost took pride in being called so.

Look I'm a socially awkward guy. I have no friends from that 'place'. And if you ask me, they were beyond redemption anyways. Some might grow up in future, some won't. I respect you western women for atleast avoiding people who display such behaviors, cause some women here didn't even object. I had to think twice before standing up for someone cause how casually some of them treated it.

Rest I don't even know what to say. It's just depressing to talk about rapes in general.

I agree with you. Men need to be taught better and most rapist are men due to the obvious. However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.

93.6% of sexual abuse offenders were men in 2021 in the US.

Convicted offenders. Worth the precision.

Velma, this is exactly why I love you so much 💚

overarching conversation is about how we prevent horrific crimes like gang rape is a choice a lot of men are making in here.

That is not how the conversation is framed. The conversation is framed on shaming and bullying all men, because some men are rapist. Why are you surprised that many react negatively to it?

If you feel it’s more important to soothe men’s hurt feelings about being in the same group as most rapists rather than focusing on how we reduce rape, y

Do you remember the bear in the woods?

If the narrative (in the mass media) was about reducing rape, it would be focused on HOW to do it. Not on tar and feather. This is not productive, this is airing anger.

I live in the EU (location is important in rape prevention discussion), a country in dead center of it. There was once a panel about rape prevention in tv, some minor politician, that's it.

Noone really offers any solutions, even in this thread, so I can well damn start.

There are multiple reasons why people commit rape, how they do, why thy feel enabled. Those are ALWAYS tied to the culture, as law doesn't prevent crime, only dictates punishments.

Do we agree on that?

Lets distinguish native rape crimes from foreign-born rape crimes, and focus only on the first (example, Germany, 40% perpetrators are foreign born).

Continuing on our example, Germany, when asked and studied, convinced rapists often turn out to be societal "losers", with reinforced online presence especially in "incel" and similar circles, including blackpill etc communities. Even the underground ones. When studied, psychologists often ascribe the crime to entitlement or desire for domination. The future rapists feel validated by anonymous people online, until the thought of commiting rape normalizes in their heads.

I can't be the only person who thinks the solution to this particular portion of the problem (in our example likely the largest) is quite simple: mandatory online ids, that remove the possibility of anonymous circles. Break the enablers group.

"Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% of them are poisoned. Go ahead. Eat a handful. Not all M&Ms are poison."

Many people picture rape as an attack by a stranger. But FBI crime data shows that 76% of reported rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim already knew.

These perpetrators include acquaintances, friends, and neighbors; romantic partners and spouses; and parents, siblings, and other family members.

When rape and sexual assault start to diminish, more people can trust men initially. As it is, men can be extremely dangerous, especially to women and children.

Trust, but verify. If you are not a man who rapes, then do not pre-emptively group yourself in with those men.

People who avoid men or distrust them are protecting themselves. They aren't attacking you.

Cool, but Simon Pegg is British though

To add, it isn't just prejudice in conversations but social inclusion, workspace hostility, and community resource allocation biases. It is a prejudice when women prefer less men around, especially in public spaces and spaces meant to be shared. But some prejudices are more equal than others.

1. Supporting women doesn't mean never supporting men.

Boys and men are often harmed by messaging around sexual assault that says over and over, all men are violent people who cause harm. Supporting the men caught in the crossfire between women's advocacy and sexually predatory men,can exist without undermining the effort for women. However, if your efforts to change or erase male behavior can't be accomplished without harming innocent men, then why should those men, or society, support that effort? How can they? You've decided some people can be sacrificed for the interests of women without their consent. That isn't advocacy, it's supremacy.

Cause you are most likely to know them but not know they're perpetrators. Remember, you're most likely to get SA'd by someone you know vs someone you don't know. It could be a relative of yours. It could be a friend you least expected or most expected. But don't expect you would know who it was or would be.

Lets check the math here.

Most men don’t personally know a man who was a perpetrator

According to the USA's statistics (I will use it here because it is quite high), it is about 5 rapists per 100 000 people.

A lot of offenders are multiple offenders. Comparing that to the reported rape occurrences and the actual estimations, assuming average lifespan of 75, if a man is 30 he needs to personally know ~60 men his age to statistically know a rapist, and about 28 men his age if he is 60.

I do not think therefore your sentence is true. I do believe that most men personally know a rapist, but hopefully they don't know about it.

Most women personally know another woman who was a victim

According to the USA's statistics (I will use it here because it is quite high), it is 37.5 per 100 000 people.

This is yearly data. Estimates are that in the USA only 1 in 4 performed rapes is reported. Assuming an average life of 80 years, and (from USA statistics that about 80% of victims are younger than 30), a 30 years old woman needs to know 6 women to statistically know a rape victim. And among 70 years old, just 5.

Most women personally know another woman who was a victim Most men don’t personally know a man who was a perpetrator

Points 4 and 5 are contradictory. Assuming men and women are in equal proportions in the population and distribute normally, the only way this would be possible is if somehow all the men in a single neighbourhood commit all the rapes around the city. This doesn't stand up to common sense.

The real problem here is arguments of authority are presented without the possibility to disagree with them, even as they don't hold up on face value.

You get it :)

Maybe they're too busy dealing with the constant assault on their identity by people telling them who they need to be without regard to who they actually are.

If all you have is a hammer...

I wondered where some of those incels went after the Reddit exodus. I don't wonder anymore.

Almost sounds like male specific child abuse...

I was raised around man hating women and I hate men because we’re the fucking problem and we’re not doing anything about it.

You know, there's a quote about the Holocaust from a student from Germany that I will always remember: "It is not [my] fault, but it is [my] responsibility."

And I kinda feel like that's the sort of mentality men should have about this problem. Maybe you didn't rape women. Maybe you had to deal with man-hating women. Maybe you suffered trauma for being a man.

Personally, none of those things sort of excuse hating women, especially because this post is about the systems of oppression women face, especially in regards to sexual assault and society's willingness to overlook it. Like, I get that many men have similar stories to you, but when you post about how you struggled to overcome your hate for women, I'm frankly baffled why you think anyone, let alone women, would fucking care? Do you want to people to congratulate you for being a better person? Okay, good job, keep doing the bare minimum people would expect. But, frankly, your post doesn't even contain information that might help someone in your situation because all you did was blame women in your life for your hate. So, in all due kindness, fuck off or take responsibility. I don't care which.

I will be extraordinarily fair and say it is not your fault you developed hate for women, but it should be your fucking responsibility to stop hate for women, especially as you are more complicit than others. But me saying all this will probably make you then act like you are the victim in this exchange for getting called out instead of doing your part to help others.

This post has nothing to do with hating men and everything to do with figuring out how we reduce rape.

It's funny, I was raised the exact opposite, In a house with men who hated women(and shoved thier truama at me, ehem).. and I dont hate men, never did, just a few specific people.

This report focused exclusively on college men in the United States and Canada.

also

Though we found an overall prevalence rate of approximately 29%, this is strongly associated with measurement strategy and may be an over- or underestimate.

however

Our results provide strong evidence of the widespread nature of sexual violence perpetration on college campuses and the need for greater resources to understand and prevent this behavior that undermines the health and safety of so many people.

What's confusing about #NoTallMen? You aren't welcome here, yet you post anyways. /j

Short kings only 😜

Bugger off, ya freak

Yes, the Catholic church has a problem with protecting molesters. Nobody feels the need to point out that it's not all priests because nobody claims it is. You can even say that even those who don't should do whatever they can to change it, including quitting. What I don't understand is the insistence on punchy, but obviously wrong phrases that always make the conversation more toxic.

Always a man still isn't true. Women do horrifying, bigoted shit too. They just aren't taken as seriously when they do it.

Men aren't some different species from women.

I'm not a man, but I don't feel like we should be guilting boys by insulting their entire gender, something they didn't choose to be, and for something they likely have no desire to do themselves. That's how you push people into the manosphere, looksmaxxing, alpha males and stuff, because they feel like they're not accepted by progressive people because of their gender.

No, they're the guys that look the other way because "bro-code". Enabling is as bad as abusing.

1000%

Always loved the guy. It’s great he’s continuing to be awesome.

Both. We should do both so that these men are punished for their crimes and more boys don’t grow up into those type of men.

Tell me, which group has the most rapists between men and women?

Genuine question- how early do you think such teaching should occur? Because for many of us (women), predation on us starts much younger than men seem to realize. The truth is, if we were to focus on teaching women to avoid groomers, we’d need to have full-on courses on psychology for elementary schoolers.

Now let’s logically follow through your idea here. So if we were to successfully teach girls (because again, if you wait to teach “women” then you’re already too late) to avoid “confident” men, what’s going to happen? Hm seems like a lot of boys would end up being avoided by girls, treated pre-emptively as rapists. Isn’t that what the manosphere complains about already? That girls and women don’t “give guys a chance” or what-have-you?

Buddy, you were close to making a good point, but this is not a tactful way to say what you're trying to say. This is victim blaming.

We should teach boys not to be rapists.

Teaching girls how to spot a rapist is not a bad thing either, as long as teaching boys not to be rapists is still the priority.

But women who date rapist men are not "part of the problem", they are often the victims of rape. They are the victims, and you are directing blame at them. Fuck off with that toxic shit.

I have a better idea. Let's punish rapists.

yes, its definitely the womens fault, totally

do I need the /s?

Teaching our sons to not sexually harass, assault or demean women is not our education system’s job. It’s ours. All parents, and siblings and extended family members as well.

We teach our children in how we behave and what we accept without comment in our media, or in the world at large. It may be obvious to us when a guy harassing women on tv is the bad guy, but maybe the kids aren’t figuring that part out.

It needs to be called out explicitly so they grow up calling it out in their friends, rather than going along to get along.

Doomerism.

Teaching our sons to not sexually harass, assault or demean women is not our education system’s job. It’s ours. All parents, and siblings and extended family members as well.

We teach our children in how we behave and what we accept without comment in our media, or in the world at large. It may be obvious to us when a guy harassing women on tv is the bad guy, but maybe the kids aren’t figuring that part out.

It needs to be called out explicitly so they grow up calling it out in their friends, rather than going along to get along.

Gonna repeat my point elsewhere - it’s both. These men knew what they were doing and should be punished appropriately. We also need to teach our children about consent and boundaries and respect.

There’s a very serious rise in acceptance of misogyny right now and it’s important to tackle the full breadth of the problem.

At least 57 men in that group chat that saw those texts and never said a word to protect that woman.

You know what's weird? When conservatives say you can't teach about slavery because their children will feel guilty. Always found that weird cuz I never felt guilty. I feel that the horrors of the past can be evaluated and understood so they won't be repeated in the future. Guilt has never crossed my mind. At least not personal guilt, societal guilt is another matter.

It's always been my Inkling that people who do feel personal guilt are the ones who are forced to face something about themselves. About their own biases. About their own prejudices. About their own bigotry. About the way they live their lives and take advantage of their fellow man. About how they choose not to improve the system and would rather ignore injustices. That they feel guilty because they have a guilty conscience.

Not sure why that came to mind while reading your comment...

Who's doing that?

Oh I think you should read his post again then.

You don't hear them saying "a lot of men..." They just say "men..."

Like, get it right and the argument dies...

It's definitely infuriating, if only there was something we could do to ensure that men, usually white men, werent the most likely instigators of domestic violence and racism in western countries.