Ye Power Trippin' BastardsThe post in question
Mod posted a response: https://lemmy.world/post/52564578
I have recently received some feedback about including sexuality as a topic for dad jokes. Although it was not the most constructive of feedback, some points were made. Sex as a topic is not the same as sexuality, and I apologize for not making that distinction clearer. I was basing my moderating on what was being reported and sex being a topic as understood for children closer to puberty, although sexuality such as LGBTQ+ parents/partners/people can be understood much earlier. While I stand by still keeping actual sexual themes (anatomy, sex positions, etc.) as an off-limits topic for the community, sexuality seems reasonable to include.
This community is not static; I want to do my best to maintain a place that can grow with the community while staying true as a place for humor in a world that has plenty of unpleasant things. I am not a bot, and am indeed a person that is open to having respectful discussions.
Tell me what you think should and should not be included as “off limits topics.” Should profanity be allowed, or possibly only certain words? Are there other suggestions you have? I will try to look at the common themes from any feedback and apply them over the next two weeks or so.
As far as mod responses go, that's pretty dang good. For as much as we complain about bad mods we should applaud the good.
the topic of sexuality
Bigotry.
PTB
Equating gay/bi people with sex and therefore inappropriate for children is a tactic of bigotry. The same argument was used to say that it's wrong for Mr. Ratburn to get married on Arthur, despite the episode being completely innocuous, or for any of the lgbtq characters in Steven Universe to exist. It's literally an argument to exclude queer people from society.
Times to play "check that mod's hard drive"
All you have to do to illustrate how stupid this removal is, is to imagine this couple also has a kid, whom this joke is told infront of.
Spoilers: The kid likely isn't going to get it, in the same way that many many kids cartoons make reference based jokes and quips, and even mildly raunchy jokes that kids also do not understand... unless the context has already been previously explained to them.
Thats the point, thats how they work as jokes, you need the context otherwise its meaningless.
Then the other part of the joke is you get it while the kid doesn't, the joke landing two different ways at the same time makes you feel more knowledgable, that joke is for you, the parent/guardian, so the show is fun for you too.
Even if there were 3-6 yo lemmy users... the logic for removing this still doesn't actually make sense.
Part of the cleverness of the joke is that it is indecipherable to a kid that doesn't understand sex or sexuality... it thus doesn't 'expose' kids to anything they don't already understand.
Reddit has been certailing speach for a while now, I pointed out on the Canadian politics sub that I'd notice their were quite a few more posts about the national post then their were other Canadian news agencys and I got banned imidiatly for it.
IRC one of the mods of /r/canada was outed as a white nationalist several years ago. This kind of thing is incredibly common on reddit in plenty of the bigger subreddits.
The mods are pushing a narrative, the place is flooded with bot posts and comments, and invariably it's pushing a narrative.
Scrolling through the community quickly, there were like 3 jokes mentioning a husband's wife, one mentioning a car's manual transmission stalling, and one that's over a week old that includes the word "ass' which is directly breaking the no-profanity rule, yet somehow the concept of a gay couple is too confusing for a 6 year old? Oh and also a joke about "Cherenkov radiation" which I am 1000% confident no 6 year old on earth has ever heard of.
PTB
Maybe people should be reporting those other posts mentioning heterosexual couples to make a point.
You know what they say: Alex and Philip don't make Robert
Well now you've done it. You're going to get removed for being racist.
Fair enough! Wish the mod was weighing in here at least then.
I'd tag them, but de-anonymizing (sp?) mods is against the rules of YPTB 🤷🏻
Oh really? I missed that rule, I thought it was just using admin powers to reveal them was the no no. There's only one mod of that community.
There's only one mod of that community.
Hence why I'd be able to know who to tag without being an admin myself 😁
I'm pretty sure that we're not supposed to mention even the most guessable identity if it's not in the modlog entry, though 🤷🏻
That's wild when the first posting guideline is
Which mods/admins were being Power Tripping Bastards?
Seems like that's a tricky path to walk when posting here.
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com Any chance we could get clarification on the naming of PTB mods here? @unruffled@anarchist.nexus
Maybe people should be reporting those other posts mentioning heterosexual couples to make a point.
Mods would just ban people for pointing out the posts or comments breaking rules rather than addressing the issues being reported
I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that comment honestly.
Lemmy.world not beating the allegations again.
Its the joys of how hard it is to convey sarcasm on the internet 😂.
Favorite removal reason from world is making too many reports so deleting instantly rather than locking
Not a dad joke since it’s actually hilarious.
Also, what a PTB.
The name of this community (are they still called magazines here?) is Ye Power Trippin' Bastards, so presumably PTB = Power Trippin' Bastards.
It is indeed ;)
What's everyone so upset about? Clearly, the 3-6 year-olds on Lemmy have been protected!
...from knowledge about the existence of gay and/or bi people.
How many 3-6 year olds could there possibly be using Lemmy??
3-6
And they're a year old? Damn, they learned FAST
If I were you (which I am) I would know for sure it's at least 2
I clocked Bert and Ernie as a gay couple as a five year old.
Sexuality?????? “Likes to hold hands/be married with girls and/or boys” is not “sexual” and little kids can quite easily get that.
Seriously, is a kid with straight married parents not allowed to know their parents are married/like each other??? Tf
I sometimes worry that the straight, cis folks aint right :/
These days, both the straights and the straits are not OK.
Speaking as a cishet, we mostly aren't right but most of us are wrong in better ways 😉
You are correct that I’m not right, but just for different reasons.
Ah yes, Lemmy, so popular with kids it competes with Roblox for the pervs attention
I kind of just assumed everyone on these boards was 3-6 years old. Are they not?
Whenever I go to the store, I see at least 4 or 5 kids begging their parents to let them have an account.
Another one of the bigots who think mentioning anything not straight is both sexual and political - PTB
Unfortunately, some Lemmy instances allow conservatives. Wherever you have conservatives, you have bigotry.
Conservatism is cancer. It should be eradicated. Especially in positions of authority or any place where free speech is valued.
~~PTB &~~ bigotry
~~1. Lemmy.world ban kids to use their instance, also users of other instances. (Or at least it was their policy)~~
- There are marriage jokes in the community.
Edited: The requirement is in the comm rules, not to protect kids, but for the level of complexity of the joke. I would suggest to the mod to rethink that rule when it can be use to hidden oppresed collectives.
Ptb. That the mod doesn't understand the difference between romantic and sexual attraction says a lot about them as a person. It says even more that they expect the jokes to be understandable by a 5yo.
On the bright side, this is Lemmy! Anyone can make a new Dad Jokes community that doesn't have that stupid rule.
My kid knew about gay people from the day he was born. PTB for sure.
PTB?
Power Tripping Bastard :)
What does that mean? Most babies have a pretty limited understanding of the world. 😅
I’m queer and he has family members that are LGBT+. He’s known of our existence forever. He has seen his grandfathers kissing since his very start. He’s seen me dating other women. It’s just normal.
Babies can't see any shapes at all for a while:
https://www.aao.org/eye-health/tips-prevention/baby-vision-development-first-year
I kind of get what you're saying, but the idea that a newborn baby would even understand anything more than, "this person smells good and makes nice sounds" is probably a stretch. 😊
I mean, op didn't say they were a square or a triangle so they should be good with their baby being able to see them.
Pedantry is great for influencing people and making new friends.
I was using exaggeration to make a point. You’re being pedantic.
That point is that gay and bi people are normal. My kid grew up with his mother as a queer woman. It’s normal and not something that needs to be gatekept for children.
I'm assuming they are gay and have a child.
I'm going to say that's not a dad joke, but it's fucking hilarious. That said, the stated reason for removing it is idiotic.
PTB, obviously.
Wtf? 10000% PTB.
Seems to me that even if you're trying to keep all mentions of sex/gender out of DadJokes (what is a Dad anyway and how is he different from a Mom?) you should at least make a suggestion that OP send their post over to UncleJokes, which needs more content.
I've reviewed the community's moderator log, and that is something they commonly do, in fact.
A young kid with two dads would likely have had it explained in terms of romantic orientation though. No more alien to a kid than hetero romance is.
Split on this. The assumption 5 year olds couldn't get this joke because its funny to be in a gay marriage but not yourself gay seems bigoted. Kids could get that just as easily as jokes about straight couples. At the same time rule says no jokes with death or sex. PTB I.M.O.
Edit: On reflection placing sexuality in the category with drugs, death, and racism seems rough
As someone that got called gay all the time in literally kindergarten as a form of bullying, yes kids know what gay/straight are. Fuck Lemmy.world. Nazi bar ass instance.
sex.
It's not talking about sex though. Gay and bi people existing within a marriage has nothing to do with sex.
I’m once again annoyed that the default term became homo”sexuality,” and not homoromanticism, because A) why the fuck does anyone who’s not an immediate prospect need to know about anyone’s sexuality? B) the phoneme sexuality implies… sexuality, so it just gives a bunch of bad faith motherfuckers ammunition; C) most of the time it’s actually referring to homoromanticism; and D) even when it’s not, the majority of people would describe a homosexual and heteroromantic person as straight (or closeted :[ ).
linguist here. you mean «homoeros» (ὁμόερoσ) “samelove” (Greek), not “man/mankind romance” (as opposed to “anserromantic” gooselover) (Latinus)
Fellow linguist here. I did get it wrong, but I meant heteroromanticism, which is an existing term because I’m not a prescriptivist :)
not a prescriptivist
ok amelatinæ
Call me what you want, that’s your business 🤷
::: spoiler ∸◷❓ᑐ↓ᐳ畄,ᐳ꘠⍯? lon tenpo seme la ni li sona, li toki pakala? :::
::: spoiler 𓆊 At what time is it comprehension, and ramblings? :::
Or even sexuality really, because, once you actually raise your knowledge beyond "basic biology", it becomes eerily obvious that romantic attraction and sexual attraction aren't always in sync.
But regardless of that, why the fuck would you moderate an ONLINE FORUM based on what 3-5 year olds understand? They don't understand taxes, are tax jokes banned? They don't know how to drive, are road rage dad jokes off the list too?
The more I think about this, the more this mod can suck my clit. Am I supposed to disappear because I'm a bisexual person married with a kid? Am I supposed to not exist around my child because I might make a joke about being bisexual? Am I supposed to hide my own bisexuality until my kid is a teenager?
What the fuck is this gatekeeping?
This is your typical "I'm not homophobic, I don't mind gay people, but" person. They don't "mind" gay/bi/lesbian/trans/queer people existing as long as they do it without them needing to acknowledge that existence.
Or to simplify it... they ARE homophobic, but because of current social trends they're not allowed to say it out loud and they don't want to get cancelled.
Exactly, have a guy at work like this, claims hes not homophobic but went on a full on rant about his 8-9 year old kid seeing two guys kissing/making out in front of his flat, I even tried to make him see the homophobia by asking if he would have cared if it was a guy and girl and he confirmed it was mainly about it being two guys..some people.
Gay people existing is political type.
Didn’t you get the memo? Anyone not cis, hetero and following gendered stereotypes should never be in the same room as a kid or teen. /s
I agree with the other commenter: it’s finely veiled bigotry.
married with a kid
Hey, you dropped this: ,
Married with a kid is different than married to a kid haha, but thank you.
You're right. I was flattening sexual/romantic attraction and being overly loose with what qualifies discussing sex. I dont agree with the rule and will avoid the comm if that doesnt get amended, but my go to first standard in this comm is "was this mod action even in the rules" before I get to "should it be in the rules"
There is no law forcing sex and marriage to be intertwined, its just an assumption since they normally do. This joke mentions nothing about sex in the marriage, just a play on which genders each in the marriage are attracted to.since most people forget bi people exist
Yeah, Bi myself so I very much appreciate the joke. I just also try to give a berth for people to set whatever rules for a community. Not a rule I like or will accept to continue participating, but if the rule was just plainly "No X" and "X" gets posted I wouldn't necessarily fault the mod for enforcing the rules as they were, just wouldnt want to be in their comm.
I ~~think its fine to think~~ agree that kids don't need to know about sexuality until puberty, but enforcing that really comes down to someone's own parenting.
It's not a good reason to remove the pic related meme, which is completely neutral and pushing no agenda, on a forum ostensibly for adults, such as our own.
I agree, we need to ban all hetero representation so children don’t see it.
No more talks about moms and dads, ban any hetero couples from interacting together in public spaces, remove them from all media.
Sure is weird how for some reason people never mean this when they say kids shouldn’t be taught about sexuality 🤔
They are probably projecting hard. I had a few situations where gay people were hitting on me, which made me feel uncomfortable - not because i care that someone else is gay, but because i absolutely do not find men attractive and have self-confidence issues making it difficult to say no, especially in a bar (edit: not a gay bar) where everyone is already somewhat drunk.
I can absolutely understand that some men might have similar issues, where the thought of hooking up with another man simply feels icky. Difference is: do i let that feeling cloud my judgement in general or am i mature enough to separate those things? These people are still stuck in high school from a development standpoint, and thats both sad and dangerous.
Kids not knowing about sexuality and therefor the absolute basics of consent only helps child abusers, and the earlier you ingrain the concept of consent, the better off they will be later in life.
Basic knowledge about this thematic complex has to be introduced in the first few school years to make sure they
- know when somethings iffy, because all child abusers tell their victims that this is ok and completely normal
- know who to talk to in case of abuse, which must per definition include basic knowledge of what abuse entails in age-adapted language.
Hiding these basic facts about life itself only makes bigots feel better and child abusers very happy.
Absolutely true. Not what I was thinking of in terms of sexuality, but I guess I knew what I was getting into when I made a vague statement
So you wanted to say kids do not need to know that there are people out there that do not conform to the mom/dad scheme, even when taking sex explicitly out of the equation? This is probably even worse, because it makes you as bigoted as the mod this thread is about.
Ragebait
So then, go ahead and say what you really really meant, but i ensure you that extrapolating from what you uttered until now that you are probably only going to dig your grave deeper.
Good removal but clearly for the wrong reason.
This is a husband joke, not a dad joke. It's almost like a dad joke but hasn't reached its final form.
I don't see it as a "kids don't understand gay people", and I think the mod was justified.
I'm grateful this forum has the respect to give me the courage to share my feelings. Just kidding! Downvote away.
I've taken a look at the moderator log, and they are pretty consistent about it.
I can understand the concern - seeing this post caused me to go take a look.
I'm open to my mind being changed, but it appears to me that they pretty consistently remove jokes with a sexual component, and often suggest c/unclejokes as an alternative place for posting them.
At the moment, this looks to me to be a community rule that not everyone agrees with, but a reasonable rule to have and enforce. It certainly does not break the Lemmy.World TOS.
The job of a moderator is to act as a janitor and facilitator. They remove spam, bigotry, and posts that don't fit. And then hopefully help ensure the things that do fit are allowed - so the community then upvotes/downvotes on what they like or don't like. But it is worth bearing in mind that moderators are all volunteers, and in addition to being a janitor and facilitator, they have often created the communities in question, and so should and do have a hand in how those communities operate. Ideally, it's a balance between what the community wants and the vision the mod has for the community.
I will also say that 1) everyone's opinions on what crosses lines are different, and 2) after moderating in various places for 30 years of my life, I can say that a surprising amount of content requires subjective calls to be made, even with brilliantly objective rules. Context is surprisingly critical in many cases, for example, although in this instance, it's more about where lines are drawn and what exactly is "sexual".
I personally don't have any problems with this joke at all, and if I were the mod, I think I wouldn't worry about what actual children might think of jokes - but that's where this community is, and this removal seems reasonable to me based on that rule.
remove jokes with a sexual component
What is sexual about being gay? Is mentioning "Dad jokes" talking about sex because dads usually become dads by having sex?
From what i've seen from the modlog, I would expect a joke that revolved around dad referencing sex with mom (or their sexuality at all) would also get removed.
Note that I don't personally agree with the rule, it's just a rule I don't see as problematic, nor being enforced unfairly.
Why don't you have a problem with "bisexual" not being considered "gay"? Because you've decided that's okay. And I don't disagree necessarily, because for example we have LGBTQ+ which separates out the letters. But if you reduce that to a single word, it would probably be "gay", meaning that bisexuality is also gay.
I'm sure it would surprise some of the commentors calling me a bigot to learn that my wife is bisexual. Not that you can't have members of some class being bigots. But I'd imagine it would sitll surprise them. Nor do most people who don't actually give a shit about the conversation and who are just looking for a convenient target to hate care much either. Which is not you, which is why I gave you an actual reply.
But this isn't a joke about sex. This is a joke about romantic orientation - which usually coincides with one's sexual orientation, sure, but they aren't the same thing.
Saying that queerness is inherently sexual is a bigoted stance to take, and it's a bad look if you're defending it. And that remains true even if you have a queer partner or even if you're queer yourself. Since you want to use having a queer partner as a defense for your logic, why don't you ask her what she thinks of this situation? She may not agree with your take on it.
I would expect a joke that revolved around dad referencing sex with mom (or their sexuality at all) would also get removed.
Where in the OP does it talk about having sex?
Why don’t you have a problem with “bisexual” not being considered “gay”? Because you’ve decided that’s okay. And I don’t disagree necessarily, because for example we have LGBTQ+ which separates out the letters. But if you reduce that to a single word, it would probably be “gay”, meaning that bisexuality is also gay.
This has nothing to do with this post. To clarify though, I'm a bisexual woman. Sometimes I call myself gay, but it's not quite the right term. And you don't get to dictate what someone identifies as for their sexual orientation.
There is nothing inherently sexual about the original post.
You're a bigot Harry.
Interesting choice to make a reference written by a known transphobe.
Interesting choice to double down on being ignorant while policing other people's expression.
It's frightening someone with your worldview is an admin. But I guess that says a lot about where we're at hey.
It's not surprising to me at all that you would say nasty things without knowing anything about me and making baseless assumptions.
I was responding to a judgement you made. That's not a baseless assumption mate, there's literal writing on the wall here of you making an ignorant comment as an admin to defend a moderation mistake.
I don't know anything about you other than what you've said here and I joked you were a bigot but I admit that was hasty. You may be truly ignorant about your judgement backing that 3-6 yo kids can't learn about queer people even though in our world people from those families have kids of their own.
It might seem reasonable to classify sexuality as something of a sexual nature, but you're talking about people's lives here. Someone has to go to school one day in a world where other kids parents told them their parents are perverted. The views you expressed here legitimise that world.
Not sure of any rule violations, but it doesn't feel like what I would think of as a dad joke. Normally I would call dad jokes something that's simple, absurd, maybe a bit punny, and generally gets a groan and head shake more than a laugh. This takes a bit of lateral thought to get, so maybe advanced level dad joke?
"I'm not gay but my husband is' is a regular old dad joke.
Why is there no acronyms for "everybody sucks" or something?
-
bad dad joke
-
bad reason for removal
In the reddit AITH and similar communities, it's ESH, everyone sucks here.
Personally I think there could be a better term, but that's the one that's the most commonly used.
There's no requirement that a dad joke must be good to be allowed. In fact, that's kind of the point of a dad joke
I'll try to clarify a bit more. This is going to be based on what I think a dad joke should be, so we might disagree on that.
A dad joke should basically be a very short, pun-based joke that would make a 5 year old laugh, but causes and adult to roll their eyes.
I have absolutely no issue with 5 year olds knowing about sexual orientations or gender identity. I grew up with quite early and liberal sex ed and I don't think it was a bad thing.
Still, OPs joke just doesn't meet the requirments. It requires knowing the difference between gay and bi as well as understanding that this difference is not broadly understood in society, thus you get to the "setup" where you assume a man with a husband must be gay. Only then to subvert the expectation by him denying being gay, because only his husband is.
I think it's quite a tall order to expect a 5 year old to put that all together and actually laugh at the joke. On the other hand I think it's quite a good joke and certainly not rolling my eyes about it.
I have no idea if the mod in question removed the post for bigoted reasons or just worded it badly. But I'd say that the joke in question didn't belong on dadjokes.
The joke is good. It's just not a dad joke. That makes it a bad dad joke, but not a bad joke.
But it should at least be in the spirit of a dad joke and this one clearly isn't for me. In fact it's too good of a joke to be a dad joke.
If it was removed for "doesn't fit community" I would 100% agree with the mod.
