Why is no one talking about the example model being Margaret Thatcher?
This is why I use low poly assets in my early versions, so I can focus on really dialing in the support for various adult toys. I pass the time savings on to the gooners!
Detail just gets in the way of imagination, I hope they're grateful
Capitalism destroying another form of media through endless chasing of increased profits and grinding developers into dust taking away any creative agency and outsourcing jobs.
"It must be the photorealism"
Genuinely sick of this take. I'm just gonna start blaming cell shading for the decline of the games industry. Marx said graphics style is why nobody buys videogames anymore and why nobody bought bodycam when it came out cos it was too photorealistic and took the devs 60 billion years to make. Unless you have a company with 4 trillion dollars to piss into 75 layers of management and 1 offshore developer we can't put 20 trillion triangles to craft a photorealistic model of my ball sack for the next live service game that nobody working on actually wants to make. It's literally impossible it can't be done the photos are too real.
Can we stop talking like we have no concept of how anything works please? Might as well just start saying game developers are overpaid at this rate
Oh and by this logic good solid art direction is free and simple right? Only photorealism takes a long time to implement? Damn when no art style game slow, when art style game fast!
At the risk of being too kind to video game developers, I do not think many performance issues these days are due to doing the YandereDev toothbrush for every object
Yeah it's more because devs seem to have this weird obsession they have to have compatibility with what seems to be an absurd amount of different sex toys
and it's why indie games are raking in money for way less effort. Plus video games are a way to detach from real life, it shouldn't look like real life.
Straight up, I think photorealistic graphics from the Xbox 360 era were Good Enough. Just bump up the resolution, draw distance, and frame rate.
Physically based rendering was a mistake, along with basically everything else Unreal Engine does.
The problem before PBR was that it was really hard to make textures uniform and look correct under different lighting conditions. That's why piss-filter existed so much during that era. Slapping a color filter over everything to unify it was a way to solve that issue.
You can actually invent modern fidelity from first premises if you just work through the problem of creating a game world. For example: GTA III. That game had 32mb of VRAM available to portray an open world city. Rockstar invented a mesh * texture streaming system that loaded in pieces of the world right around the player, and more distant objects based on size. That way distant large buildings would still show up rather than pop-in. Meshes and textures were kept to 2KB or less file sizes. Files were duplicated on the CD to limit seek times. Roads had to be kept shorter and car speeds had to be kept in check so the player couldn't out-run the streaming. Fog and fading LODs were used to hide pop-in.
If we start there, keep the same fidelity and then remove the memory limit of 32MB, we can now load in a much larger radius around the player, perhaps even the whole map. If we had 8GB, we almost certainly could. If you're trying to make a cool immersive city, you may then start thinking of increasing its size and density. At the same fidelity as GTA III, you could make a pretty large city. But the problem you run into is that it would be a mostly empty city with many blocks of nothing to do except watch the pedestrian and traffic sim play out. People still have to author the gameplay part. So you either get the repetitive side task/collectable method (the Ubisoft way) or it takes much longer to dev because you're adding hand-crafted missions that cover all locations. In fact, this was kind of the problem with San Andreas. While a lot of people (myself included) like the game, it did have an emptiness problem and if you remember they did add collectables to help fill it out.
If you make the new city just a little bit bigger than the old one, but increase it's fidelity (therefore increasing immersion due to the added visuals, sounds, animations, details, etc) then you basically get to the same place without the problem of a big empty world. The world size is a bigger and more dense, but it's manageable. You can reroute the memory gains to other things that make the world seem more alive. That's how we get to GTA IV from GTA III. It's not an ideological commitment to photo-realism at the expense of everything else, it's just an optimization problem between fidelity and the time it takes to author something.
That kind of problem solving holds for all types of games, stylized or realistic, open world or discrete levels. When you have a memory increase and you've done with it all you want to gameplay-wise, there's nothing left but to add some more detail to everything. I only say this because I've thought through this exact same problem step-by-step only to realize I've just re-invented a modern game.
I guess the real problem is that these games are products. A game that holds Xbox 360/PS3 fidelity would have to offer something more than what the original games offered. The game looks the same, has the same gameplay, is the same size/scope. But everyone making the game is paying 2026 prices for everything so the game has to justify 2026 dollars so the owners can make 2026 returns on their investment. Of course a game made as a passion project, not subject to market demands, could be made anyway the devs wanted.
As a game developer or artist, it would be very boring to keep making the same game over and over again, so think there is a genuine desire to increase scope. It's easy to say "focus on gameplay rather than graphics" in that regard, but making gameplay is difficult. Unlike graphics, there isn't a clear fidelity or quantifiable depth. How do you improve on your favorite 360 game? Introduce quality of life features, fix bugs, and then what? If you start trying to modify systems to be more deeply authored or simulated, you end up with different gameplay anyway. The artists and level designers care about their part of the process as much as game designers. They too want to go above and beyond what they've done before. It's kind of unfair to say that those people should just stop worrying about doing more with their work and let games only be driven by the gameplay people.
That desire to do more is how you end up with modern games, even without a market force. An artist is going to go "I tried making wheels with only 8-sided cylinders, but I have the memory budget for 16-sided cylinders and some bevels. I'm going to do that." Again, it's not them trying to endless pursue photo-realism, just desiring a better approximation of form. Of course there are neat technical solutions like using a 8-sided cylinder but then using textures as caps so the wheels look round. But that comes from a limitation. If doing with geometry works, it'll be done with geometry. That's why games don't do that anymore except for ones chasing a certain aesthetic.
As a game developer or artist, it would be very boring to keep making the same game over and over again, so think there is a genuine desire to increase scope.
It's an inherent contradiction where (some ) developers want to create new things, but gamers want them to iterate on currently existing games that they've already worked on. It gets even trickier when the devs are past their prime and their newer games are worse than what their older games were.
Let's use John Romero as an example. If gamers had their way, they would've locked Romero in a basement and force him to make nothing but Doom and Quake 1 WADs for the next 30 years. But what has Romero done since Quake 1? And the thing is Romero did release newer WADs like Sigil and Sigil II which are both warmly received by the Doom community. It's like, if Romero just stuck with Doom/Quake 1, we would've gotten multiple Sigils instead of Daikatana.
The reverse would be someone like ConcernedApe who basically only released three games thus far but who has kept on iterating and releasing new patches for their magnus opus. Nobody goes "pffft, ConcernedApe is a one-trick pony. He just got lucky with Stardew Valley." People practically trip over themselves glazing him for releasing expansion pack content as free patches.
halo 3 still looks amazing
If the game is immersive/enjoyable it really doesn't matter. I don't look at pixels or polygons when I'm playing a game but at virtual objects. It doesn't need to be true to the real world. True to the real world might even be considered a boring creative choice.
The fact that you can still get the willies playing Silent Hill 2 is a testament to art direction and style and that game is what, 25 years old now?
Don't get me wrong, I hate photorealism as an aesthetic but I also hate this misleading ass image lmao
The 60000 triangles model is clearly just the 6000 triangles model subdivided up, which means that it was just artificially inflated without adding the tons of detail that it would be able to hold
Like imagine an image upscaled from 200x200 to 2000x2000 pixels versus a native 2000x2000 pixel image, that's essentially what this example is doing for the final model
The picture is also just not high res enough to tell
Return to Starfox
Starfox 64, right?
I just can't get into modern video games. The Beethovens have too many triangles.
Anything that is not textbased or ASCII is bougie.
I think in terms of realistic character looks cyberpunk and horizon series are the best and it's not really close. Everyone else should just give up
I think the issue is that, if your entire "style" is just photorealism, then once your attempt becomes outdated it's now contrasted with the more effective attempts we become accustomed to and looks bad by comparison, and meanwhile there's no real style to it, meaning it fundamentally just kind of looks bad because it put all of its eggs in one basket that had a hole in the bottom from the outset.
600 triangle looking dope
I've been building my own game from the ground up, hoping to build everything myself, including all the models. This was something I figured out on my own like, 2 days in.
