No words
i haven't followed Omarchy for a while but last time i had heard of it, it was supposed to be a "secure" "opinionated" "AI first" preconfigured arch installation (not an actual distribution) that is neither secure, nor opinionated, and AI first meant it came pre-installed with hyperlinks to AI apps and the creator's other ventures, as well as bundled with various vibe coded atrocious bash scripts. has anything changed at all or are people just throwing money at fascists because AI?
What? Alibaba wasn't exactly good before, but why the fuck do they need to send 3 million to a nazi Linux distro? What do they even get from it other than looking like absolute pieces of shit?
I'm not really following this Omarchy stuff. What do these various donors expect to get out of these pretty large sums of money? In other instances with Linux or open source stuff they're usually expecting influence over the project direction or they are already using infrastructure and want to fund it as a cost center rather than maintain it themselves.
Can anyone explain to me what Omarchy claims to do (as in marketing only - not what it actually does) that would possibly justify all this money being flung at it? I have a hard time believing that all these companies are throwing this kind of money at something just because it's fascist (at least adjacent). Is it just a bandwagon effect at this point? Like, "oh, company X gave 3 million, so we need to give 3 million because it must be something special!" Is it claiming to do something revolutionary that is causing the stir in these companies' pants?
Its big selling point is being "AI first" - they preinstall a bunch of AI apps and have some system tray integrations for them. The rest of the distro seems to be typical theming stuff that a lot of Linux users do and post about on places like r/unixporn.
Thanks! I went looking and noticed that "agentic OS" was right on their website title. I imagine that that may be the primary public justification for these companies' investments, but the fascism may be the real unstated reason, or at least the icing on the cake for some of them.
It's an attempt to fashify open source by pouring money into an openly fascist project that then directs that funding towards other fash open source projects and uses the big swinging money dick to try and force compliance, silence, or exclusion on non-fash projects.
Thanks, but that sounds like what it actually does rather than whatever claims it makes that attracts all this investment. I have a hard time believing that Alibaba is patronizing an organization with millions of dollars just because it's fascist. Surely they must at least claim that they believe that Omarchy is a great project because X or Y (even as window dressing) and not "because they're fascist".
I don't know exactly what Omarchy itself claims because I haven't look into it, but their claims aside, if any of these companies analyzed it for 5 minutes they would come to the same conclusion everyone else does, that it is a vibe-coded dotfiles distro, that's literally it, it doesn't do anything other than being Arch with hyprland by default and being heavily customized by AI, it makes absolute no sense for this much money to be flowing their way other than some far-right attempt of making it famous since it is run by a nazi.
I guess I'm wondering if these investments are due to malice or ignorance combined with laziness. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it were the latter, coming from business people.
I decided to take a quick look (ewww). I bet that it's its claim to be an "agentic OS" that's getting it all this attention. "Beautiful, fun & agentic Linux" is right on the website title. In other words, it seems similar to when any random company would get a big boost in their stock a few years ago just by adding "blockchain" or "crypto" to their name.
I also figure that another factor contributing to this attention is this DHH character's tech cred for having created Ruby on Rails and being CTO of 37signals (Basecamp). In other words, he's part of the techbro club.
I think this all makes more sense than thinking that all these companies are donating only because it's a fascist tech project. I'm sure that's a factor too, but it's probably fascism + ignorance/laziness + techbro club membership (which I guess also boils down to fascism). Ok, I just convinced myself in the end that it's mostly the fascism. :(
Setting the obvious fascism thing aside for a moment (capitalists love fascism, news at 11), I think it might be helpful to actually look at this from the perspective of a labor struggle. The Free Software community at large has been doing a pretty lousy job of resisting LLM slop, but this is very inconsistent across the board. Some projects have rolled over and embraced the slop fully. Others have taken an infuriating "centrist" position which only demonstrates how little your average techbro knows or cares about sociology, and others still have taken a solid principled stand, that we are humans who make software for humans and the corporate practices of churning out the lowest quality product at the highest possible speed is NOT THE FUCKING OBJECTIVE of building software for the commons.
This is inconvenient for the AI boosters. For better or worse, Silicon Valley in the 2020s is built on the back of Free Software and the (frequently) unpaid labor of volunteers. The tech stack of every major company relies on it, and they behave as if they own it. The fact that there are projects out here resisting this drive to slopify - refusing to comply because of ethical and moral principles - is unacceptable to them. They were happy when Free Software was largely a homogeneous corpus of technology they could appropriate at their own will. The fact that they now have to worry about individual projects refusing to embrace this technology has suddenly made Free Software an arena of political struggle in a way it hasn't been for a long time.
These corporations can pay people to develop Free Software. Many do, when it serves their own interests. And when you are paying someone to do the work, you can dictate the conditions and practices of that work (e.g. If you're not using Copilot, you will be replaced by someone who will gladly shit out 100x as much code). But an innumerable amount of responsibilities in the Free Software world are not paid. And you can't force a volunteer to use LLMs if they are convinced it is a socially and ecologically poisonous technology.
That ultimately is what this is all about. The fact that Free Software projects exist which will not accept these labor practices means that there are now some substantial pieces missing from the stack. The fact that the average software company has transformed most of their software engineers into LLM zombies means there are a lot of projects which will no longer accept their contributions. You can't simply pay them to land a patch in (many components of) GNOME anymore (for instance). Any project which digs in against LLM use needs to either be forked or substituted (or infiltrated).
They need to recuperate the tech stack and plug these holes. That is the point of throwing millions of dollars at a vibe-coded fashslop dotfiles distro.
The elevator pitch is that it's an easy to install and use Linux distro with extensive AI integration. From Alibaba's perspective, it's an AI project in a time where AI is booming that also isn't directly tied to big US tech firms. In theory, it could become a Windows/Mac competitor.
Thanks! I had taken a look and noticed that "agentic OS" is right on their website title. That must sound really cool to AI techbros.
Bruh how do I get in on this open source funding sheesh
Develop a popular web application framework and blog compulsively about exterminating the immigrants.
Hmm 😒
(Cat gagging noises.)
this stuff just turns my stomach
It's funny they're going to get millions of dollars in funding yet contribute nothing of value back.
Nobody cared about this ceo's computerized mega yacht when it first started so he's putting a bunch of scantily clad tech companies on it to attract incels and scabs.
The multimillion dollar investment is needed because the project is so technologically bankrupt.
I expect this is just a play to get more prominent placement for Qwen tools in a very AI bro 'distro'
I'm really surprised that none of the US state department brainworms are in effect here in the blog so maybe that's a win? Still very disappointing and this might be because Chinese tech is so america-brained that a white guy like DHH can convince them that his personal dotfiles are worth millions.
Gentoo, for example, operates in its entirety with 12 thousand dollars per year with human made contributions. So at this point I think the money is just going to go to slop tokens.
qwen how could you do me like that baby
shouldn't the cpc intervene here?
If they don't mind doing business with zionists or any country run by literal fascists, then they won't do anything about this either. It's the inescapable result of dropping ideological struggle in favor of unprincipled peace that Mao warned about. That's how you end up with dog shit foreign policy like actively investing in countries that seek to destroy you and oppose everything you claim to stand for.
The entirety of Europe could resurrect and go full Nazi tomorrow, and the CPC would still push for "strengthening ties" and talk about being equal partners. 🤡
the sino soviet split and rapprochement with the West happened when Mao was still alive tho
When Allende was coup'd by Pinnochet, most, if not all, Communist/Socialist countries broke diplomatic relations with Chile under Pinnochet's military regime, but China maintained regular diplomatic relations with Chile. So if Europe went full Hitler 2.0 , China will be ok with that if it does not interfere with its own development and maintain the One-China policy.
I like China, but the whole "Yeah trading with fascist regimes is fine" thing isn't uh.... Yeah I don't like that.
The Chinese position is essentially "If they don't want to work with us, then trying to force them too will only cause problems".
Which that's all well and good until the US swoops in, topples governments, and severs whatever projects China and some other country were working on.
@gualudengren@lemmy.ml what's your perspective on this?
Which part?
the parts where china's accused of pursuing the unprincipled peace that mao apparently warned about and giving fascist entities too much assistance
Sorry for the length I got very into writing this before I call it a night.
In my view there is a fundamental flaw in the original comment: their idealist misinterpretation of the concept of 'unprincipled peace' (taken from Combat Liberalism) and a failure to apply dialectics to international relations. The 'liberalism' criticized by Chairman Mao in Combat Liberalism was an unprincipled attitude characterized by the abandonment of the Marxist stance and compromise with erroneous ideas within the ranks of institutions. Applying this internal critique to contemporary China’s external diplomatic strategy is a category error. The CPC has never abandoned ideological struggle; rather, it correctly distinguishes between internal ideological purity and the external reality.
Maintaining a stable external environment is not an unprincipled concession, it is a necessary material prerequisite for defending the fruits of the revolution. As noted by Professor Cheng Enfu, the core task of the primary stage of socialism is to liberate and develop productive forces. Only within a peaceful international environment can China concentrate on economic construction, providing the material base for the global struggle against neo imperialism. Take, for instance, the 'Luban Workshops' in Africa, a strategic move to break the knowledge monopolies of neo-imperialism. By exporting practical technologies, China helps the Global South cultivate endogenous development capabilities. Without stability, such internationalist practices could not be carried out replaced instead with the constant proxy war that was emblematic of the 50s-90s.
Regarding trade with countries whose political systems are reactionary, the commentary falls into the metaphysical error of equating economic interaction with political endorsement. In “Left-Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder, Lenin pointedly defended the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (making a compromise with the German Kaiser) against the 'pure' leftists who cried betrayal. The proletariat must be adept at making necessary compromises with even reactionary states to preserve the socialist state. Chairman Mao similarly distinguished between economic engagement and political support. In the international economic cycle, we adhere to objective economic laws, utilizing capital and markets to develop socialist productive forces. This is grounded in a scientific assessment of the global balance of power, not an endorsement of any foreign superstructure.
I know you didn't ask but I felt it prudent to add regarding the specific topic of Alibaba’s investment in Omarchy and lack of CPC intervention, it is essential to analyze this through the lens of Marxist political economy and the state's regulation of capital. Within the socialist market economy, the state does not micromanage private capital so long as it complies with national laws and does not threaten the fundamental achievements of the revolution. Allowing the non-public sector to determine its investment direction based on profit-seeking objectively drives the socialization of production, creating material conditions for higher levels of socialist transition. This investment stands in stark contrast to the one which sparked regulatory crackdowns against Alibaba a few years ago. The fundamental reason for that state intervention was to prevent the disorderly expansion of capital and curb the aggressive financialization of the private sector, which threatened national economic security. Curbing the financialization of capital safeguards the economic foundation of the dictatorship of the proletariat, whereas permitting investments in other sectors (even if misguided) represents a necessary stage in utilizing market mechanisms.
While comrades frustrated by contemporary international engagement may yearn for the seemingly purer Soviet model, we must analyze the USSR scientifically. The Soviet project was undeniably heroic in defeating fascism and advancing Marxist-Leninist theory. However, burdened by imperialist destabilization and exhausting constant geopolitical confrontation, its leadership eventually diverted from dialectics. A critical error was the rigid, administrative expropriation of small producers (held over from the war economy), rather than patiently leveraging the market's inherent socializing tendency. These deviations alienated the masses and contributed to the project's tragic collapse. Simply repeating past methods simply because they "feel" ideologically purer leads to stagnation.
When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will vie with each other for the rope contract.
We should be linking to this in the news mega whenever the subject appears. Very nice writeup.
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They absolutely should. They state in the announcement that they will use the money to push Omarchy to Chinese users, thereby getting them started in the fascist pipeline.
I wonder if its a 3D chess move to destabilize specific things in the west.
Chinas foreign policy favors and wants stability (look how much effort theyve spent on keeping energy markets from not collapsing) why would they at the same time be doing weird 3D chess to destabilize things
you can even go back to 2008, China saved global capitalism
Selfishly, I worry that the more popular Linux gets the more corporate shenanigans will sabotage it
Linux is already fairly corporate. It's funded by corporate funding, which is not a conspiracy, it's just because every tech company relies on Linux and therefore has a vested interest in its development and robustness. It's not some small indie kernel; it's the biggest FOSS project in the world.
I guess if you want a non-corporate option, Plan9 and the BSDs are always there.
It's strange that they're investing so much in a niche product that has always failed to gain mindshare outside of LARPers. The DIY people who make their own desktop from scratch aren't going to bite into a pre-made carnival of slop.
They're going to gain a ton of users fast but they're all going to drop off in a year or so when people realize having a calculator app that looks like the rest of the computer is something they want and their eyes get tired of seeing the same fake neon cyberpunk aesthetic.
I suspect that this genre of "ultra customizable unbloated leet hacker desktop" is going to die out as soon as KDE finishes their unified theming engine and you can fully larp as a windows XP user with KDE.
Okay I have to say it: I've never understood the drive to theme your linux DE like fuckin' Windows. I know there's nostalgia for the gray 9x window decorations, but the infinite fondness for Luna or Aero baffles me. LARPing as an infinitely shittier OS...
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Absolute Nostalgia Bait. Or maybe it's a kink thing knowing that you're safe within the confines of KDE . It's Windows' fault for adopting a new design language every single release to sell people the same computer with more ads.
kink thing
This is how I'm gonna see it for the rest of my life lmao. Also at least you could tell W7 to larp 9x, that was kinda worthwhile...
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Nostalgia is really powerful sometimes. I also don't get why people go to such lengths to make it look like Windows, at least modern Windows that is, I get the appeal of older Windows to a certain degree. You can do so much in terms of customization on Linux that it feels wrong to want to settle for so little with just copying Windows.
Ikr, especially because I used to spend to much of my time in Windows trying to customise it to be usable... Default KDE is preferable imo.
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I'll give GNOME 1.x users a pass on aping windows themes because well... look at it.
This one?
I kinda like it more than 9x honestly.
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Yeah
Looking at this screenshot makes me realize how much GNOME has evolved (for the better).
The web search menubar option would not fly nowadays.
I pulled up screenshots of Tron and pulled the color palettes from that. Why would you want to be windows when you can be cool?
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I want to say that's harsh and inaccurate, but, uh... my desktop has a Luna theme, so... yeah. I guess Windows XP themes are indeed pretty popular as far as Linux desktops that people are actually using, based on how easy Luna themes of varying quality for different DEs can be found...
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I'm going full Windows 8 (not 8.1)
We are 100% seeing this happen as time goes on. Nothing popular can be good. Not because it's popular, but because big money will come and start to monopolise and enshittify it.
Under capitalism any community commons, even highly incomplete ones that still have plenty of corporate involvement, eventually become a target for enclosure and extraction or a target for destruction.
This is one of the limitations of viewing parallel social systems as a sufficient project. Like mutual aid groups that are basically just charities or making your own "commune" (10 people living in a house). They are not actively bad. They can do very good things. But they'll never survive a round of primitive accumulation. This is why we distinguish them from socialist organizing, where the goal is the overthrow of the bourgeoisie.
Just as a side note both mutual aid and communal living can build and be part of socialist projects and the struggle for revolution, they just have to be actually building towards that rather than reinforcing the liberal order (e.g. the tendency for a mutual aid group to become a non-profit funded by genocidaires).
what the fuck I literally just recommended Alibaba. Fucking hell
