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I'm a cis male and I believe in the importance of feminism, but I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women's experiences as if I was part of the Me Too movement. In some binary sense given how hateful and shitty men can be I'm absolutely a feminist, but I wouldn't declare myself to be one. What is your standpoint?
If Feminism is equality between genders, then yes, I am a feminist.
But if Feminism is unconditional trust towards women, then no, I'm not a feminist.
In my experience people who call themselves feminists often put women above men, and will deny any criticism towards them because they're women, and women never do anything bad.
Absolutely, but I also think it's not enough to just say you're this or that, you have to act on it. And Imho a lot of people's feminism starts and ends at declaring themselves feminist.
I think modern feminism does more harm than good, since it is what makes separation visible in the first place. Since I view separation as the root of virtually every problem in human history, I would therefore consider myself a “humanist” who views all people—regardless of gender, skin color, origin, or other characteristics that could serve to create separation—as equal. We must overcome this division.
Of course I would and I do. I find the arguments that there are many branches of feminism to be a reason to not consider yourself a feminist to be kind of ridiculous. There are multiple branches of everything. Not all anarchists agree, not all socialists agree, not all communists agree. No group is a monolith with perfectly aligned values and thoughts.
i used to, that was 10 years ago when i still believed that feminism would actually improve the world. instead, it has just made the world shitty in different ways.
women today all have mental illness. that comes from instagram, where they learn that the world is bad and they have to fear everything. women get told that the circumstances are unacceptable, that other people are out to hunt you, that you can never be satisfied. all of it contributes to an general unwellness.
on top of that, what has feminism actually improved? has it improved the relationship between men and women? no, it has just caused women to be angry at men all the time for being "predators" or something. sexual harassment may have gone down but so have serious attempts of starting relationships.
That's funny because absolutely none of these ramblings have any connection to real life. Get well soon.
I agree about avoiding knighting ourselves with the title of feminist because it's absolutely something some aggressors use to lower their target's guard, and because it's easy to call yourself something to gain social standing and then not deliver when the time comes
Otherwise absolutely do read feminist theory and act according to feminist convictions. Doing so without making it about yourself being one of the good one only makes it better
In my humble enby opinion you can call yourself a feminist if you believe in equality between genders. There are many flavours of feminism and they often contradict each other. You will never be a perfect feminist in every feminists' eyes. And you shouldn't try to be.
But be humble and curious when other feminist and particularly women try to explain their point of view.
Yes, absolutely.
You don't have to understand a woman's experience so much as you have to not be a dick when she tells you her experience.
Look at all the men that got butthurt over "bear vs rando man" and I'm gonna be honest, I'd choose the bear over many of them too. They refused to listen to what was actually being said by that statement.
Hit the nail on the head. Being cis white het doesn't make you automatically the enemy. Your actions do.
There are dozens of us!
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Seriously though when I hear reactionaries complain about the different movements condemning the white patriarchy, all I can think is "oh you thought they were mad at you? Well I guess they were right to be". It's really not that hard to recognize the injustice and violence inflicted in the past and to try to stop it from continuing. And most importantly it's not hard to know when to sit down, shut the fuck up, and listen
That's a lot of buzzwords to agree with me.
I don't know.
My concern was always about showing respect to others, regardless of gender. I want for others what I want for myself.
I grew up surrounded by womens and, as a kid, I heard horrible stories about men behaviour but also heard countless dismissals from women to women about those same male behaviours.
As a teen, I became so concerned of my existence as a man, I went so deep into neutral and non threatning territory I had girls telling me I was being flirted with because otherwise I wouldn't notice nor correspond. I was quick to point out bad attitude/behaviour from guys towards girls as well, which did not make me popular with my peers.
As an adult, I started working under the supervision of women. No concern, no friction. I did became extremely aware how women would easily create and maintain terrible and damaging relations between them, for futile reasons. Even today, where I work at, where the majority of responsability roles are women, the way even polite conversations are held are laced with tension.
I reached a point where I act in accordance to my conciousness. I loathe disrespect, I get revolted by hearing anyone talk less of others. And I am learning to call others on their words and actions, regardless of gender.
I do recognize a lot of violence, of all kinds, is still enacted upon women because they are women, solely, but I am also aware a good deal is still dismissed and even abided by other women.
Yes 100% bc the literal definition of feminism is the equal treatment for all genders. I don't go around just telling people that. They can probably just tell I am bc I'm not shitty to a specific gender...
Would you call yourself a feminist?
Yes.
Anyway the "shaming men for being feminists"/"only women can be feminists" thing is absolutely a thing the fascists have peddled to cripple feminism.
Hard yes. If you believe in equality and justice what the fuck else would you be?
Though, I suppose there are those that don't... They can fuck off
No I’m not a feminist.
Feminism has had several waves with varying ideology behind it and I definitely don’t agree with all of the ideals espoused by feminists.
I’m a humanist egalitarian which better describes my position.
What ideals don't you agree with?
YES
Yeah. I wouldn't bring it up as a non sequitur but it's pretty important.
I think in the purest sense yes, a general platform of equality for genders.
However I'm growing increasingly cynical and wary of continuing to advocate more in this direction. Not that it's inherently wrong, it's that the movement has been co-opted by the capitalists. Very swift to make sure women still bear all of their responsibilities, now also must enter the workforce in order to make a combined living family income. Yet no additional social supports. Men's gender roles changing in society, but absolutely no future planning or accommodation for what men are supposed to change into, or what role to take.
We are slaves and I think it's always important to remember that. We get the scraps we're allowed. And all of the forward progress isn't as forward as we want to self-smugly believe. We are still being played as the underclass.
I think the whole appeal of feminism for me, is the questioning and evaluation of rigid gender structures. I'm not sure if it's my place to call myself a feminist or not (since I'm non-binary). But I do think that feminism and queer issues are contiguous.
Yes, of course. I don't feel the need to lead with it unprompted because that's not where I focus my attention in terms of advocacy, but:
- Anyone who isn't a male chauvinist is a feminist by process of elimination
- As a bicycling advocate, feminism comes with the territory because biking was a big part of the women's lib movement back in the Victorian era. (Quick explainer, deeper dive)
I was raised with Gloria Steinem's definition of feminism shaping my understanding, and have called myself a feminist since I was a child:
"A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men."
A more modern and inclusive version of that same idea, adopted by UN Women:
"Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender, should have equal rights and opportunities."
Feminism is a very complex grouping of movements and ideologies, but I think "membership" within them is very simple: if you believe in equality regardless of gender, you're a feminist.
Woman here and we could use more male feminists
In the sense of "do women deserve equal treatment in society?" 100%!
I idolized my grandmothers as a kid, and they did a better job raising me than my actual parents. Both sides of the family always seemed much more matriarchal to me.
The one time I was ever in charge of anything was at a fairly sexist job and I repeatedly fought to get the ladies' pay more in line with the guys, I reported a few people to HR for making my staff uncomfortable, and I ensured the one employee got a private lactation area after she had a baby.
Now I volunteer with animal rehab, and that is a field that is about 90% women, and they are all so badass, compassionate, they do every job, and come from every walk of life.
To see all I've seen and to not think anyone deserves the same treatment as me because of their gender would be insane. I don't like labeling myself, because I'm always not going to fit someone's definition of that thing, they can call me whatever they want, but I like to see whoever is around me getting treated right.
No. I would not. I don’t like the label - but I’m in no way opposed to their position. Rather smugly I’d like to claim I’m an egalitarian.
When I thought of myself as a cis man I considered myself a feminist, but I didn't call myself one. Maybe I would've if someone asked directly, but no one ever did. Mostly there wasn't any reason to say so that wasn't performance; better to act and think in accordance with the principles than conspicuously claim it.
I had professors ask us to raise our hands if we're a feminist, and usually every young man did. This was in the Obama administration, before the right became so fascist, but still. We don't expect you to have an equally deep understanding or to be familiar with academic feminist works. We just expect you to believe women are equally valuable individuals, who have the right to pursue their own happiness, live their lives how they want to live them, and be supported by their community in their health, wellbeing, and pursuits.
Yes. Even in the most cynical light, standing with women is within my own self interest because my rights will surely erode alongside theirs. But also i like women and am disgusted with how they are treated socially and economically, and want that to change for the better. So a feminist i am.
I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women’s experiences
Being a woman is the only thing that gives you access to women’s experiences, but being a woman doesn’t automatically make you a feminist.
Understanding women’s experiences (i.e., being a woman) and being a feminist are orthogonal things.
The phrase I use as a male is "I emphasize with feminists" it puts them in the drivers seat but I'm there to support them.
I believe that every human is a human with equally complex lives who all deserve equal opportunities and the right to self-determination regardless of gender, race, or any other uncontrollable factor.
So yes, I would consider myself to be a feminist.
Yes. I was raised by feminist parents and have always supported equal rights and equal pay, and stood against misogyny and sexism. You're right go not want to be presumptive, but the answer to that isn't to shy away from feminism, it's to listen.
No, never.
Because I don't even understand what feminism is. There's so many conflicting opinions under that umbrella that the label doesn't even make much sense to me.
"Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender, should have equal rights and opportunities."
That bit is just common sense, though.
So, why is it so uncommon?
Feminism is, indeed, just common sense
It's really hard to call yourself a feminist when you realize that all major achievements of western feminism aren't the direct result of activism but rather capitalism. To paraphrase DiCaprio's Character from Django, activism had their curiosity, the financial incentive had their attention.
Industries and governments realised that they were essentially not capitalizing on 50% of the population.
Women in the work force wasn't a noble grant of freedom, it was an increase in production and profit. If it were truly as noble as it is made out to be, they would've given them equal pay from the start.
Same thing goes for women being able to have their own bank account. Women having their own money means they will spend it, driving the economy. Even the right to vote just provides another angle of attack to influence and radicalize the population. Those are the 3 corner stones, work for capital and pay income tax, spend your money and pay sales tax and vote for whoever the TV tells you to vote. Everything else is just comfort to sweeten the deal. That's also why 3rd wave feminism has grinded to a halt. The is no capitalist financial incentive to give women even one more inch of freedom than they already have.
Women haven't won anything they've just gotten of the side lines, right into the corporate meatgrinder.
And now we're here, where a two head family can't afford to have a child because both members working 9-5 can barely support themselves financially, yet alone have the money or time to have a child. And neither corporations nor the government are eager to support them as if giving back even a single cent of profits is a cardinal sin.
I'm sorry, but that is a huge crock of horseshit with absolutely nothing to back it up but vibes. That's like saying the abolitionist movement achieved nothing because it is superceded by a broader class struggle against capitalism.
Women fought for and won the the right to self determination, the right to vote, the right to divorce, the right to bodily autonomy, the right to be legally treated as persons instead of as the property of their husbands, etc, and none of that is diminished by its byproduct of a larger workforce being better for capitalists. "Women haven't won anything" fuck outta here
Maybe I simply have a hard time imagining a world where politicians listened to the demands and protests of the people and governed themselves accordingly.
Maybe 100 years ago politicians where less corrupt and more empathetic towards the problems of the working class people.
Maybe back then it was more difficult to pay off a few key people to let a bill pass in your favor.
Or maybe, an economic plan was created based on the post war industrial development in which out of pure desperation for manpower, women have proven themselves to be just as effective in working at factories as men. And in the name of improving effectiveness, this got the ball rolling to ultimately elevate women's rights on par with men's.
Feminism isn't some new last century concept. Women have been fighting for right for millennia but where always at bane of powers outside their control (AKA monarchs, the church, etc.). So there must be a good reason why it only worked out after the bloodiest most brutal self induced chapter of human history. What was the alternative, saying: "Thanks for the help, now go back home and tend to your crippled husbands."? That's actually exactly what governments did, and the result was a severely crippled economy that catapulted the world right into another World War.
No matter which country you're from, your great great mother has most likely contributed to getting the country through some of the worst times in it's history. A time when people weren't buried, they were dying in the streets and eaten by rats. And the reward was... that exception has turned into expectation. And as over the past 100 years almost all the money has wandered from the pockets of many into the pockets of few, women's right to work has turned into a necessity to work.
I don't believe for a second that the leaders of the 1920s had given women any more rights than in the centuries before out of the goodness of their hearts unless it was absolutely economically necessary.
Have you not noticed how workers have become customers to their own workplace? Corporation not only want to pay you less, they want you to give your paycheck back to them. And all the safeguards put up over the last decades for women in society and the workplace are being slowly dismantled by a very evident right shift of global politics. All to get you to the perfect algorithmically determined point of anger, desperation and contempt to make you pay exactly one cent less than the highest possible asking price for any given service (or as it was once called "product"). Modern day 1st world feminism is engineered. As evident by every corporation dropping the rainbow flags the second pride month ends, is that if corporations don't have to care - they won't. Feminism isn't excluded from that.
How long ago do you think women's suffrage was? This wasn't something that just happened in the last couple of decades. Literally over 100 years ago the 19th amendment passed giving women the right to vote. Nobody is saying that politicians it the government did it out of the kindness of their hearts, it's because women and allies fought like Hell for it.
A crippled economy is not the reason for a second world war, that's just ridiculous correlation, and barely even that.
You're conflating multiple things and assuming that's causation. Yes, women entered the workforce and started earning their own money. Yes, the economy has changed to the point where people of all genders are now stuck working to survive. That didn't happen because women were working, it happened and also women are working.
Just because corporations are shit doesn't mean that feminism isn't a thing. Look up the definition of feminism. It's an ideology as well as a movement. There's still a long ways to go to truly get all genders to be perceived and treated as equals, but the last 150+ years have been huge for women's equality. It's been too slow by any reasonable person's standards, but big changes in society and they way people view each other doesn't happen over night.
Fuckin a
Damn dude. Great read.
I wouldnt have 5 years ago, but I would today, but I'd still say I'm a Marxist first
Calling myself a feminist would be stolen valour.
My opinion as another cis dude: there are three things at play. (1) What is the definition of "feminism?" If you believe that women and men and everybody in between and beyond are equally worthy members of society and should not be discriminated against in any way, then you fit my definition and can call yourself a feminist. (2) I recognize that this is a hot button issue for some people unfortunately. I also see that other people may operate under a different definition. I give shit to anybody with opinions on the matter that go against (1). I don't necessarily use the word "feminist" in that context because some words - good words! - have a way of closing people off like an oyster. "Woke" and "feminism" are two examples. Worthy concepts behind both in my view but the mere mention makes some people stop listening. Especially those who would benefit from widening their horizons. Humans are capable of rational thought but we don't always do or behave that way. I'm dogmatic in my opinion but I'm not dogmatic in the language that I use so I try and adjust it to fit the situation. (3) Even among supposed allies you'll find oddballs. You don't want to be a self-professed feminist who mansplains feminism, just as an example.
In this mixed minefield, I think I want to be judged more by my actions than the terms I use.
I wouldnt, because it is not mine to claim the descriptor, if anything, I get highly suspicious if a man feels the need to mention they're a feminist. If a woman describes my behaviour as feminist I'll gladly wear it, and I do believe it would be a validation of what I believe in / my values.
"Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender, should have equal rights and opportunities."
With this definition in mind, would you call yourself one?
Absolutely
But what I'm trying to say is it feels more impactful and real to be called one than to claim to be one idk if that makes sense
Fuck the -ists and -isms. Consider policies and actions on their merit, not the label.
