GrapheneOS is building its own RCS support to cut Google Messages out of the picture
(www.androidauthority.com)
sabreW4K3
AndroidExcellent! Since Signal removed SMS support there's no trusted app supporting old SMS and encrypted messaging on one UI
A big hurdle with RCS was carrier adoption, at least in Asia.
I wonder about two things:
- Would Graphene team’s implementation be usable on other devices that are less fortunate to be supported by the OS?
- Would this be a drop-in replacement or would Graphene team need to work with carriers so that their implementation actually work?
On a tangential note, I would really like to read an in-depth analysis of how RCS had such a botched up implementation, which it has still to recover from almost a decade later.
The adoption is nowhere close to what it should have been, and instead it is now more associated with spam than actual communication. The Wikipedia entry does cover a lot of aspects, but it doesn’t explain how it went wrong.
The number of Europeans in here acting like What's App, which might as well be Facebook Messenger, is some sort of high road is hilarious.
The number of Eastern Europeans pretending Viber is everything is insane
Yeah I still don't get why people use or promote WhatsApp. If anything, use Signal or even Telegram
Telegram are you kidding me?? Telegram is a thousand times worse than WhatsApp pal
You can't use Signal or Telegram because your contacts are on WhatsApp, but yes WhatsApp might as well be called Facebook Messenger
Telegram is worse than even Whatsapp, since it's not even pretending to be end to end encrypted.
The real choice is signal or threema.
I have thought this for years. Everyone slimes on Americans for using iMessage and asks who no WhatsApp? Same reason I’m not on facebook, don’t use a meta quest, and don’t use instagram.
While Whatsapp is not great, the problem with iMessage is that it is (was?) locked exclusively to the apple platform
Yeah, thats the main issue with imessage (and it still is) and if your switching from IOS to android, you have to start over on all of your messages unless if you figure out a way to back them up.
Literally everyone should just use Signal. I really don't understand why we all don't.
Because signal dropped SMS support.
Because Signal 1) doesn't ship as default, and 2) requires a login process.
You've already lost the majority of the general public with #1. The Venn diagram of people who go through with #2 and the people who already know about Signal is nearly a complete circle.
Used to shill XMPP but everyone should use Tox at this point ngl.
- No registration
- No phone number
- It's impossible to send anything unencrypted
downside: Sharing IDs is annoying (QR code if you are on mobile? idk haven't tried)
updownsides:
- It does not concern itself with backlog storage (unsent messages sit until at least one device of both parties are online)
- It does not concern itself with file storage (sent - poof, gone)
But the same is true for WhatsApp…
You see, the problem is that whatsapp came very early, when it released it wasn't shit and it provided free messages which in many european countries wasn't a thing yet, everyone hopped on it and used it as main communication platform, this created a big ass network effect that is nearly unescapeable, even today i can't escape from it because i am the only idiot who uses Signal and Matrix and no one wants to leave whatsapp because they already have an account and all their contacts
Was true (except for trustworthy encryption). Then network effects took over and peer pressure did the work.
It could happen again in a good way this time, but the resistance will be stiff.
I use Signal via Molly and as @lka1988@sh.itjust.works points out, there's friction in getting users to on to it. But also the UX isn't even as good as WhatsApp let alone Telegram.
I used signal offical app and honestly it has a good UI and UX, what does it lack? What seems bad? I don't understand
what ui? there is a namelist, a call icon, a message icon. what in the hell do you need?
one thing missing is support for Android Tablets, its pissing my GF off on her Samsung Tablet and yet it works for my mother on her ipad ffs
2 weeks now on Graphene. This is what a phone OS should be, simple, boring, juste the basics without a shit-ton of bloatware and spying crap.
This has been available since forever, though. Cyanogenmod/LineageOS was the biggest. Oneplus followed along and I love my OP15, though that's coming to a bitter end
Cyanogenmod and LineageOS have always felt like hacks upon hacks and always had something broken. While I have my gripes with GOS it's truly the first time since I have had a custom ROM that just works through and through.
Lineage pales in comparison to what cyanogenmod was
Sure. OxygenOS was also forked from Cyanogen, but OnePlus ended up adding their own UI and (opt-in) apps.
Lineage was forked from the remains of CM. Without Lineage, CM would have died and faded from memory already.
Lol, lineage did nothing to stop that
Where will you go after 1+?
I'm considering the new Motorola line, but I have no clue
It'll be a while I'm sure, but I'm here for it 🙌🏾
Very much needed.
This has been missing for years
I switched away from e/OS for this very reason. As much as I hate SMS based communications it just isn't practical to ditch them completely in the US. It's simply too widespread.
you got only RCS available, no old school SMS? I was relieved I exited the Google's RCS.
I've been using JMP.chat/Cheogram for this personally
Good. Everything Google touches needs to be forked.
Fork Google
We keep trying, but the courts are ok with monopolies.
They suddenly care about monopolies whenever a major competitor threatens to shift the balance of the market by providing alternatives...
fork it right out the ass
Goggle!
Lougle! If you get that reference lol
Go fork yourself
bro trust me, its one more msg app, it is gonna solve everything, just one more bro
RCS is a protocol, not an app
Just one more protocol extension bro it's gonna fix everything
What the fuck is RCS?
It's the next gen sms, with features to bring it closer to parity with popular messaging apps
Ok so RCS is basically WhatsApp/Signal but Google(+Carriers) but retarded:
- The client software is propiertary and screws you over when you e.g. root your phone
- They finally realized that E2EE exists - 10 years after everyone else implemented it
- You can't view the docs unless you're a Google Partner
- The protocol seems to be a mess
- You need a mobile data connection for it to work (sometimes not)
- Knowbody knows how the server software works or can be hosted, everything is "Google Jibe" or needs to connect to it to work
whatsApp [...] But retarded
Huh? That's literally a Meta platform... Doesn't get much worse than that. I'd sooner just use SMS
AFAIK this is SMS... Well, they are using RCS to hijack it. So you start SMS conversation and if both parties have it enabled or will switch to their protocol. Kind of what iMessage does.
Yeah, I keep RCS disabled on my phone and preferably would replace it with another app, but didn't know a good alternative.
What's app is owned by Mark Zuckerberg and Meta.
- GOS will code a proprietary client, like Whatsapp? I doubt…
- It's E2E with 3 ends, the 3rd one being Meta, like Whatsapp?
- There is no doc available, like Whatsapp?
- The server is as closed as one can be like Whatsapp?
Frankly, if one actor gets in RCS and gives me confidence it's going to be secure and respect our privacy as much as can be, it's GOS.
RCS might be below some other standards, but phone messaging is still a thing. GOS is not about idealistic massive adoption of Signal, it's about what's needed in the day-to-day life, but with privacy and security.
What messaging service works without a data connection?
3G is shut down and 2G will follow soon.
What messaging service works without a data connection?
mobile data connection.
As opposed to wifi or the pigeons you linked.
I think it's texts for people who don't use Signal or WhatsApp, so... nobody I have ever met, I guess
You're correct. EU users didn't adopt, or at least continue to utilize, SMS based messaging like users in the US did. This is not a problem for anyone using web based messaging like the ones you mentioned.
I'm quite surprised by the reaction this comment has received, are Americans genuinely still using SMS? Don't they need to have group chats, send pictures, transfer files, make audio and video calls, or make use of encryption?
It is literally a standardized communication protocol. That is what iMessage is
it's trying to extend the sms/mms system
Replace, not extend.
Isn't that a possible reason why my my e/OS/ phone can't send text messages, nor call, some numbers. (In France, where many people use meta shit like whatsapp and facebook messenger, and won't be interested in another messenging app like signal, delta chat, etc)
it is as convenient for the users as sms/mms, unlike signal/telegram/whatsapp
Sounds like you haven't met anyone. Or more likely, it's everyone not-you who is weird.
Sounds like you never have been to Europe...
Genuinely nobody I know has sent an SMS message for at least a decade, who are you still sending SMS to in this day and age when internet-based messengers exist?
For those who got too excited by the title: read the original messages from the GrapheneOS. RCS de-facto is not an open technology, there's a massive amount of work and multiple steps are needed to get anywhere near the proper independent implementation. It's gonna be amazing if the GrapheneOS team pulls it off, but don't get too excited about the release dates and its availability for other systems (e.g. Linux).
To be honest, I'd rather they use the effort elsewhere (as a very happy gOS user). The number of people on gOS who wouldn't prefer Signal (without phone number rego) / Threema etc. is probably vanishingly small, but that takes going up against the incumbents with heavy resistance.
There's only so many irons you can keep in the fire. That said, gOS devs (sans drama) are freaking awesome, and seems to keep growing in number, if they can pull it off it will be a true coup.
I hope it's functionally installable on other versions of android
I hope it can finally bring this piece of shit messaging protocol to Linux phones so my friends and family know when I read a message
You can always use Waydroid
https://waydro.id/
If you phone is X:
https://github.com/1999AZZAR/use-waydroid-on-x11#installing-a-nested-wayland-compositor
Just move them to signal :)
Everything they make is open source, so even if they don't officially support it, someone else will probably fork it and upload it somewhere.
I'm sure it will install, but if it needs some system level thing it won't actually work. It depends how they implement it.
I read installable and instable, I was like 🫠
RCS is finally good now!
Patiently waiting for supported devices expansion and no i don't want them to rush, i just don't want to buy a new phone to be free of Google.
Only phones that can have the bootloader relocked by Graphene will be supported. New Motorola phones are coming but they will be expensive. Get a Pixel (not 11).
That's just one of the things required for graphene, there are a lot of hardware security features that are also required. Only Pixels (not Pixel 11) have these so far, but the Motorola phones will change that of course.
As of now, for clarification, Pixels 6-10 series, Tablet and Fold are supported by GrapheneOS. The new Motorola phones releasing next year will also support GrapheneOS.
For clarification, only some Motorola phones, likely expensive flagship models, for now.
Yeah but can you really trust pixels? Google hardware, ewww. I would rather pay more for proper hardware
Google put out a surprising amount of documentation that allowed graphene to build everything they needed from the ground up. It basically wasn’t possible to do anything as secure and independent of Google software on any other model.
Ironically, the phone Google makes is the only option right now to get fully away from Google. Motorola is working with graphene to release a model that meets the main criteria, but it’s not out yet.
I bought a second hand pixel 8 pro.
I get the vibe there's not much intention to expand compatibility.
They require certain features that most phones don't have in order to be willing to support them. They want phones with GrapheneOS to be impossible to break into even by sophisticated methods such as Cellbrite so it defeats the purpose if it can be circumvented by methods that don't involve the OS.
Wait, is my GrapheneOS phone unlikely to be hackable by Cellbrite? That's kind of amazing, I had no idea.
My current daily driver is an HMD Skyline and it's been great thus far and repairability is good but it isn't listed anywhere as being supported by alternative OSs.
The skyline has a locked bootloader that can''t be unlocked by users.
They're working with Motorola to make a device
It's supposed to be out next year but only the highest end devices will be supported because GrapheneOS requires certain security features in the firmware and hardware that Pixel 11, the lower end Motorola devices, and the other brands don't/won't have.
Seems like Pixel 11 has the hardware but they turned the Arm Memory Tagging Extension (MTE) off in firmware for 'performance' reasons. gOS has been able to turn it back on, but the jury's still out on whether they'll support it as I understand it.
I looked at Motorola's current devices to get a sense and it's pretty sad. My plan of sticking with my used 1TB 9 Pro (non XL) holds. Honestly I need to look at phone insurance because I want to ride this thing out the full 7 years of support.
Buying a Google phone in order to get rid of Google seems sort of counterproductive, doesn't it?
The GOAT
Please consider a donation
https://grapheneos.org/donate
yooo! while i wait for mobile linux to be realistic for my device this is a win
This project seems to be promising for providing a true mobile Linux experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otMoX0-PYp8
Hopefully this work is able to be used to help further that as well
This would be great. Definitely one of the few missing features.
I've had my GV number as my primary for ~16 years. I've been on grapheneos for about a year now. Maybe I should actually pull the trigger and migrate my number to my provider and finally get RCS. All the better if GrapheneOS provides native support.
I'm not sure you'd have to? You should be able to just download the app and register your # and they'll just start coming.
Yep, I always laugh when I think that Google managed to successfully bully Apple into supporting RCS, yet Googles own service, Google Voice, doesn't!
I'm in this same boat.. FOMO is hitting me hard.
I think GV is the heaviest anchor holding me to Google right now.. :-\
Meh, RCS is too little, too late, and archaic in design.
We moved away from hardware-based network identifiers in the 1980's, and RCS requires a unique hardware ID. It's fucking backwards.
I will never use the garbage that is RCS - it's already dead, just needs to be buried.
You say that until you cant even text your family or friends because every messaging application requires RCS. In the US, almost everyone is using RCS or we are using Windows with Microsoft Teams because of work. We dont use WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc, unless its about traveling out of the country. Apple and Google really want SMS and MMS to kick the bucket but if GOS can pull this through, Im 100% for it.
Is RCS hosted by the carriers? If not, how to make the end run around Google?
Some carriers do, some never did, and some did but gave up. In the end if they want wide deliverability they'll have to connect to Google's hubs (servers).
It is annoying that Google doesn't provide an API for RCS as they do for SMS and MMS.
Only system apps can offer RCS support, so there has been essentially no 3rd party apps for it, just Google's and from a few OEMs like Samsung
And Samsung gave up.
And...I guess, graphene?
That seems to be outside of their wheelhouse (intentionally), and it makes me nervous.
GOS team is so ambitious and I think we kinda need it too
will it be usable on LineageOS? could it help with RCS support on linux?
Lineage os maybe. Linux, doubt
I like how the one comment on that article is a guy baselessly saying that RCS is an open standard.
It's open as BGP. Public documentation, nobody will connect to you if you're a nobody.
Open standard doesn't mean implementations are wide open to use.
A quick search shows that it is technically true, though..?
Please, god
