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i fucking hate these people so much man
im getting fired if i dont use this bullshit, already one person was "anonymously" shat on during a meeting for not doing so. fortunately not me
Eh it makes it so I can sit and smoke weed while I'm 'working'
I made some offhand remark about how I didn't find a lot of value in the lying machine to a guy that seems to insert AI into everything he talks about and he got real worked up and said maybe he'll write a book about how the riffraff that have not embraced using ChatGPT are left behind by enlightened society. Oh no you owned me, I'm gonna be so owned.
He's gonna write it or he's gonna generate a book about it?
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just burn tokens i mean thats all they are measuring is token burn, bro
it sucks but this is tech and its always some bullshit in this industry
I'm right there with you comrade. The owner at my company and the execs are all major "AI" boosters and micromanage the fuck out of engineering to force that garbage in everywhere despite not knowing what we do in the slightest. It has ensloppified our codebase and documentation so badly, what used to be straightforward and lean projects are now unmaintainable sprawling messes and security nightmares. I used to openly criticize this push and LLMs' capabilities but two of my coworkers have been fired for similar stuff (one for saying to our CTO "LLMs don't have a place in every part of our workflow" verbatim, and another for refusing to use an LLM to rename a variable during a screen-share session that the CEO was on) so I've just shut my mouth and intensified my job hunt. It's insufferable watching so much technical knowledge and expertise squandered and diluted all to do a shit job of trying to automate us away.
It's basically a large-scale "train your replacement" but your replacement is 12 drunk children
Same lmao
Y'all and Ed Zitron and Trahsfuture keep me sane
Ed Zitron straddles the fine line of soberly analyzing all of this while being absolutely clear he thinks it’s all a pile of bullshit, it’s nice
I gotta say the best way to get people to get off your ass about AI in the workplace is to use it as wastefully as possible. Blow through tokens like there's no tomorrow. Make agents that make agents that make agents that make agents.
Make it hurt. Malicious compliance and they'll stop. I've seen this at 2 companies now; they want everyone to use as much AI as possible, so everyone starts doing the most ridiculous shit ever with it, and suddenly it's caps instead of quotas. It's "use the cheap models" instead of "use everything." It's a prize for whoever uses the least tokens to do the most work. And then they just stop talking about how much efficiency they're gaining with AI.
AI is expensive as fuck and it's not getting cheaper. Expenses are the only language management speaks so speak their language and make it expensive until they encourage everyone to stop
Expenses are the only language management speaks so speak their language and make it expensive
"...Learn the use of expenses!"
That's the fucking thing, these assholes are now monitoring your usage. Wasteful behavior will be punished (using most expensive models for trivial tasks) as much as not using the fucking thing. I think bad prompting the cheap shit often will be most wasteful.
Instead of doing nonsense to waste tokens yourself you can put nonsense in the AGENTS.md and have the whole team waste tokens. @ a bunch of files to add them to the context when they don't need to be. Add instructions to have the LLM do more tool calls, maybe add some verbose flags.
I've still never once been reprimanded for using too many tokens but it just makes me feel bad like there goes yet another years worth of electricity.
im getting fired if i dont use this bullshit
Could you give more info about this? Are there precise expectations, or are you supposed to use it "enough" on the "right" tasks? Do they check? How?
My manager on one of the meetings:
"You know guys, I won't beat around the bush anymore with «asking». Let me get to you straight. You have to use these tools, because one, two years from now, you'll just be left behind."
It doesn't get more excplicit than that.
grok, please summarize what the requirements at OP's office are
Are there any use cases where AI makes sense to use?
Generating security incident reports
That shits boring
Prototyping software.
If you're trying to cobble together a shitty proof of concept, and you don't care about whether it's efficient, scalable, maintainable, well-documented, or secure... then yeah, an LLM will help you do that.
But then when it comes time to actually building the real thing, you're better off using an actual team of actual humans to make it actually functional.
LLMs? Generating spam lol.
The programming stuff is waaaay overblown. It's less accurate than copy/pasting shit off Stack Overflow, the thing we used to say was the sign of a bad programmer. Everyone using it is miserable, and nobody using it has actually delivered the results they keep saying they're getting (it's been 6 months since you all said you're 100x more effective, where's the 50 years worth of new software, AI bros?)
There are occasionally these huge bursts of things AIs do, but they're all predicated on having a huge budget dedicated to finding reasons why a huge AI budget is a good idea. There was a wave of security vulnerabilities being found by AI at the start of the year, but there are existing security scan tools that are just not being used If you spent the same amount of money scanning everything on github with AFL-Fuzz, you'd find billions of security bugs. There's now a wave of math proofs being generated now, but AI companies are spending millions of dollars on this. For a million dollars you can hire a small team of math postdocs for two years. Heck, for a million dollars you can fund a permanent grant.
It's less accurate than copy/pasting shit off Stack Overflow, the thing we used to say was the sign of a bad programmer. Everyone using it is miserable, and nobody using it has actually delivered the results they keep saying they're getting (it's been 6 months since you all said you're 100x more effective, where's the 50 years worth of new software, AI bros?)
I dunno that wasn't my experience in the last 6 months or so. 2 years ago yeah it was basically this but nowadays I can get the thing to do some medium complexity work on our codebase and it's pretty much gonna get it right like 95% of the time with maybe some tiny code quality reduction in the form of some duplicated code or such but the thing is pretty much going to work.
Also I built a personal project with it that I wanted to do for a while but never got around to it and it pretty much did it as I wanted it. Granted it was a lot of back and forth and lots of debugging/testing passes but in the end it actually works. Not sure what the overall code quality is but the overall project structure makes sense and the little code I did look seemed solid enough.
I would say the people on my team are about 3x more productive than before. Of course, they immediately cut our team by 2/3rds, so...
It just lays more bare what the people up top care about. Most devs eventually learn this but they are often somewhat insulated as they are left to their own devices to build a product via a given framework or standard. But the C-suite has never cared about code quality or security unless a big customer or investor cares about it. The C-suite is focused on making money, especially through disciplining labor. They are very happy with the worst thing you've ever seen so long as it appears to function and neither big customers nor investors are complaining about it. Tech is usually treated as a cost center, it is something to minimize and fulfills a purpose that they would rather contract out.
These are folks with big egos and little education so they also think they know enough about the topic to manipulate their workers and discipline as needed. This has never been a problem for them before except when it comes to tech and how much they have to pay their workers, as there is limited supply. They are now having a great time attempting discipline that was otherwise difficult for them to achieve, so this is a double-whammy of standard labor discipline plus scratching a long-held itch in profit maximization. It doesn't even have to work, it just has to fulfill those basic criteria from earlier.
In large part this is because there is a substantial disconnect between production and profit, the actual product being sold and how money is made is often two or three degrees removed from "we made $x sales and had $y costs" that the C-suite can just tank four companies in a row and still make out like bandits - so long as they please the big customers and investors.
Every old time software dev knows that sometimes you have to resist management and go do the thing that makes the software actually work, which they were able to get away with when the market for software engineers was so strong that putting up with them was easier than hiring a new one.
When the software engineering market collapsed (a little before the AI craze), software quality also started to collapse, because now nobody has the job security to tell their manager to fuck off.
Every old time software dev knows that sometimes you have to resist management and go do the thing that makes the software actually work
Yeah but the management nearly always wins in the end and makes you do the quick and dirty solution. The amount of decades old absolute ass legacy code I've had to deal with in my early professional days was insane and the same code is probably still clanking on. It's always easier for management to get results quickly and then pay the price in man hours and misery of the devs later.
LLMs can translate frustration into soft corporate speak and then you don't have to think too much about how you're going to tell your boss they're the worst
Your boss is probably clueless enough that even explicit written frustration will not be read as such if they don't have a bone to pick with you but even the most charming writing could be insubordination if they want to see it.
This is true and is part of why summary execution for bosses is step 4 after the revolution
When I was on Xiaohongshu before they introduced the translation features, people would make fun of you for using non-LLM translation software because they could tell the difference. Either that or I would get, “Wow, your mandarin is so good!” which is the Chinese equivalent of “You are noticeably not fluent”. So it prevents bullying, but only in extremely specific circumstances.
LLM? Not so much IMO. But neural nets and deep learning are genuinely cool and useful for things like image recognition, speech recognition, etc. As an aide to a doctor reviewing a colonoscopy scope, sure. But instead they will treat it as a replacement that the doctor rubber stamps. Due to the way we will use it, they are dangerous, even if the tech itself can be helpful.
Theres still the issue of electricity, of the human and environmental costs, etc.
A good metric: if correctness is unimportant and verification is easy, then it is not an inappropriate tool (that doesnt mean its necessarily a good tool for a given task though). However if correctness is important and verification is difficult, then it is not appropriate. Basically, dont use it to summarize that many-page report, because its nondeterministic and you'll have to read the whole thing anyway to see if the LLM actually told you all relevant portions and didn't generate things that aren't in the report. If you want a summary, thats literally what the abstract and conclusion parts of a report are for. Dont use it to write fresh code for you, cause you'll have to read through all of it, build a mental model, and understand the problem space inside and out to actually review it well, and at that point you might as well have written the code.
I think that's one of the things that irks me most about this LLM bubble. I think ML has really cool applications in research, approximate tasks with margins for error like image classification, upscaling etc. It was one of my favorite topics during my CS degree. But now it's tainted by the gen "AI" slop machines, so all the interesting breakthroughs of real practical ML get chalked up to "AI" innovation and people just assume chatGPT is responsible when it's actually a team of researchers building small efficient programs. Ofc ML is less efficient than traditional computational approaches that can work deterministically so those should always be prioritized, but it has its uses for sure.
There's a few problems (like image recognition) where deterministic approaches are either nonfunctional or far more resource and time intensive. But like, thats not what we get. Capital declares we shall feed it so we feed it. We will hit an ai winter again. Third time and its gonna hurt more than the others. We had one in the 70s, one in the 90s (though that was also affected by the dismantling of the soviet onion and drying up of DOD funding), and now its wormed its way into everything and is gonna be painful when it hits.
This right here. The chat bot shit is shit. The tech analyzing X Rays to detect lung cancers is great. The problem is they can’t just sell “machine augmented professionals” they need to sell “A.I.” which is a marketing department fever dream
The tech analyzing X Rays to detect lung cancers is great
well, it's great if it's actually doing something novel and not just noticing that there's a strong correlation with older medical equipment, certain kinds of poverty, and smoking, so it's just assuming a shitty xray is cancer.
My favourite go-to example is the DARPA gun that learnt overcast day = hidden tank
https://gwern.net/tank
(Though I'm arguing against myself because the above link says it's an unsourced, possibly overblown urban legend, idrc)
The various projects I say pre-2020 involving machine learning were genuinely interesting.
You were seeing a computer think in a way analogous to biological brains.
And then the LLMs came.
Freeform roleplay in the vein of AI Dungeon
making your manager shut the fuck up
If you're trying to search for something but don't quite have the right words to describe it, AI can help.
Giving summaries of large amounts of data from multiple sources. You can ask AI to pull together a table analyzing the state of all transit systems that covers ridership, expansion timelines, funding status, etc and it will do a good job of that. At work, sometimes I have to pull data from hundreds of utility bills from a single customer. AI can quickly extract all that data and throw it into a bunch of tables and charts to let me quickly analyze it instead of manually pulling that data and loading it into a spreadsheet or something.
For example, I want to know more about the role of agricultural cooperatives in China. I don't speak Chinese and have no experience with the Chinese internet or Chinese state and party websites and databases. How the fuck could I figure that out?
Well, I asked AI this:
I want to understand the scale of cooperative development in China. How many are there? What's the scale of their economic impact (property owned, production levels, etc)? How quickly has this sector grown? How many people are members? How does it prepare proportionally to other segments of the agricultural economy? How does China see these strategically in the process of building socialism?
And here was its response:
Excellent set of questions — this needs real data gathering. Let me run several searches, in Chinese where appropriate, since the official numbers live in Chinese-language sources.
Strong data so far. Let me dig deeper on the growth trajectory over time and the strategic/ideological framing:
One more quick search to anchor the comparison against overall agricultural output:
I now have a solid picture from official and semi-official Chinese sources. Let me synthesize across all five dimensions you asked about.
Snapshot: the scale of China's farmer cooperatives
These figures come from the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs (MARA) via the State Council Information Office (April 2025 press conference) and a MARA year-end summary published December 2024. By end-2024, there were 215.3万 registered cooperatives and roughly 400万 family farms in the national directory. Membership exceeded 100 million households according to a 2017 Xinhua report — over 46% of all farm households at that time — and MARA's 2024 data still describes co-ops as reaching "nearly half of farm households."
Growth trajectory: explosive rise, then consolidation
The single most striking fact about this sector is its speed. According to MARA expert Shao Ke, quoted in People's Daily, registered cooperatives grew from 26,400 in 2007 to over 2.2 million by 2021 — roughly an 80-fold increase in 15 years, all triggered by the 2007 Co-operative Law.
Sources: Xinhua (2017), MARA development reports (2019), People's Daily (2021), MARA/SCIO (2024). Note the shape of this curve: near-total flattening after 2019, and an actual decline by 2024. This is not a market correction so much as a deliberate policy pivot — Beijing launched a nationwide "shell co-op" (空壳社) cleanup campaign in 2019 to deregister cooperatives that existed only on paper, largely formed to capture subsidies. As one critical analysis by Professor He Xiurong of China Agricultural University notes, regulators estimated shell co-ops at 60%+ of registrations in some surveys, and Chinese scholarship openly debates whether "true cooperatives" in the classic sense are widespread at all. Official policy language has correspondingly shifted from 数量扩张 to 质量提升 since roughly 2019.
Economic impact
Hard numbers from MARA's December 2024 summary and People's Daily coverage of MARA data:
- Annual operating revenue of ¥630.92 billion (6309.2亿元), with additional service value to member households exceeding ¥880 billion
- Member benefits: per-member surplus redistribution averaging ¥1,471/year, plus an average of ¥15,000 per member in unified purchasing/sales services
- Land scale: grain cooperatives alone number ~540,000; the average cooperative holds 460 mu (about 30 hectares) of land-management rights contributed as equity
- Vertical integration: 104.3万 cooperatives provide integrated production-processing-sales services; 120,000 have founded processing/distribution/sales entities; 65,000 engage in e-commerce
- Quality signals: ~103,000 hold registered trademarks; 63,000 hold product quality certifications
To put revenue in perspective: this is gross operating revenue, whereas China's primary industry value-added was ¥9.14 trillion in 2024 (National Bureau of Statistics), with the broader agriculture-plus-related-industries figure at ¥20.6 trillion. So cooperatives' direct output is a meaningful but mid-single-digit percentage slice of the agricultural economy — their strategic weight lies less in output share than in organizational reach, as I'll get to below.
Proportional position within the agricultural economy
The comparative landscape (2024 data unless noted):
- Small farmers still dominate structurally: 98% of agricultural operating entities are smallholders, farming over 70% of arable land, with 2亿+ total operators (People's Daily, MARA)
- Family farms: ~4 million in the national directory — more numerous than co-ops but individually smaller; over half earn ¥100k–500k annually
- Leading enterprises (龙头企业): only ~87,000 (2018 NBS figure), but they anchor the "dragon-head enterprise + co-op + farmer" contract-farming chains
- Agrarian socialized services: arguably the fastest-growing segment — 109.4万 service entities providing 2.14 billion mu-service-passes annually, reaching over 94 million smallholder households, with co-ops themselves constituting a large share of providers
So the honest comparative picture: cooperatives are the organizational bridge in a sector where the production base remains overwhelmingly smallholder. Their seed-grain farms average 20% higher yields than the national mean (MARA), and their function as intermediaries — bundling smallholders into procurement, standards compliance, certification, and marketing channels — is what policy treats as their core value, not raw output.
The strategic framing: cooperatives in "building socialism"
This is where the ideological architecture becomes explicit, and I'll present it in the official framework's own terms alongside the analytical distinction:
The Marxist lineage is cited directly. Party-theoretical literature (Qiushi, CASS journal articles) traces the cooperative idea from Marx and Engels' concept of "cooperative production" under collective ownership as the path beyond poverty, through Mao-era collectivization — by end-1956, 75万 advanced cooperatives enrolled 96.3% of farm households; the people's communes (1958) took this to 99.1%. The commune system's failure is treated within China as the reason the post-1978 reform restored household farming under the "dual-tier management system" (统分结合双层经营体制).
Today's cooperatives are framed as the new vehicle for old goals. Xi Jinping's formulation, quoted across these sources: hold the political direction of rural revitalization, uphold collective land ownership, develop the "new collective economy" (新型集体经济), and "walk the road of common prosperity" (共同富裕). Note the theoretical nuance in the Shandong Academy of Social Sciences definition: the new collective economy includes not only traditional collective ownership but cooperative and shareholding-cooperative forms built on private property — labor joined with capital, technology, and management. So cooperatives are seen as an instrumentalist form: they embed peasant interests, prevent asset concentration ("精英俘获" — elite capture is explicitly warned against), and link smallholders to modern markets.
Concrete mechanisms connecting to socialist goals: the 联农带农 (link-farmers-bring-farmers) policy now ties state subsidies to demonstrable farmer-income linkage; "党建+合作社" (Party-building + cooperative) models, often village-Party-branch-led land-share co-ops like the Henan example in People's Daily, blend the collective and cooperative layers; and the 2021 co-op law provisions restricting internal credit cooperation to members only reflect wariness about financialization. The strategic endpoint in official discourse is 农业强国 — with co-ops as the organizational connective tissue that lets a smallholder-majority countryside participate in "Chinese-style modernization."
The analytical caveat I'd layer onto this: scholarly debate inside China is more candid than the policy documents — the He Xiurong piece notes research finding many registered co-ops are controlled by rural elites or companies rather than operating as member-controlled organizations, and that advanced economies' agricultural cooperatives have been shrinking for decades. The grand narrative of co-ops as the vehicle of common prosperity coexists with an unresolved empirical question about how genuinely cooperative the sector actually is.
Sure, there's a bit of needless slop and speculation at the end in particular, but this is obviously a useful tool for understanding things that are otherwise very hard to access.
that's a nice story but since you don't know anything about the original materials (including whether they exist) how are you verifying any of this?
This is to @MarxMadness@hexbear.net as well.
The AI does provide a bibliography for its claims, so if I want to dig in as more serious research, I can do so - with the caveat that I'll need to use machine translation.
AI can't replace our own critical capacity and its answers should always be treated with skepticism. In my experience, modern models are mostly accurate when reporting raw numbers, but they make all kind of stupid and weird comparisons, like columns of a table where none of the items align in a meaningful sense.
What it can do is act as a useful tool to access bodies of information that are otherwise essentially impossible to make sense of. I'm never going to Chinese university education in Marxism. How else would I begin to penetrate the vast body of Chinese Marxist scholarship? From here, if I want to draw any meaningful conclusions, I need to see the answers from AI as about as reliable as a wikipedia article (including imperialist liberal bias). But now I have a useful collection of sources and a decent summary of the subject that would otherwise be beyond my reach.
The questions I always come back to are:
- How do you know how accurate any of that is?
- How would you spot an inaccuracy if you wanted to check it?
Sometimes it can write good code, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it summarizes some info for you well, sometimes it makes shit up. It's a mixed bag overall, probably not worth the hype and the resources but here we are anyway.
Certain Mathematical models seem to work well. And I've heard that some decent programmers like to use it to get together code they would have spent hours on GitHub looking for to copy and paste.
And if it wasn't so wasteful, I like the idea of using generative AI for getting visuals for (PRIVATE) TTRPGs. When I just want my group to have a better understanding of what my BBG, "Lord Gargle Deeznuts" looks like. And that's only if I can generate something decent for free. If I have to pay, it would be better to pay a real human to do the labor.
Other than than those very specific cases, I really don't believe there is any commercial use for current LLM. Everything is so completely unethical IMO, that even the grey area of generative AI that I mentioned above immediately become unethical the moment a human profits off it.
I like the idea of using generative AI for getting visuals for (PRIVATE) TTRPGs
I like the idea of using my imagination
They would probably be a good replacement for CEOs and similar executive types.
- summarizing large bodies of text to orient yourself in what is or isn't there. Obviously you need to open the actual documentation to check the facts, but the ai should give you links to open up.
- grammar explanations for language learning.
- it can be somewhat effective at searching across something like a ticketing or a work order system. Previously you would need to come up with a query, but sometimes the Metadata is not captured properly or at all. The llm can process the notes/comments and return a useful result.
- I've used it to draft documentation of my code, but i always have to edit it. I like having the formatting consistent at least.
- I'm not a programmer by trade, so sometimes I will have it review something I wrote and suggest improvements or a more standard way of writing it.
- slang explanations for language learning, with context.
I dont ever really use it to "do" anything on my behalf, but generally to "tell" me things. I could see myself telling a like a canva Ai to "color the 100 stars on this poster red" or something like that so I don't have to click around and change them, and I can instantly verify it was done correctly.
Is this worth the resource cost? Probably? I don't use it all the time, or even every day. Most of this could probably be handled on a local Ai instance instead of something datacenter level. I do wish to be charged the proper amount for what I use so I can make that evaluation, but that's still a bit obfuscated from me.
The only application of LLMs I've seen in my field where it is seemingly doing a better job than existing tools is fuzzing existing programs for security issues. This doesn't introduce slop to the code, however it does introduce slop to the review process because there are tons of false positives that we have to manually rule out, but it can more comprehensively cover common vuln paths than traditional fuzzers which can expose issues so we can patch them early. HOWEVER I dont think the improvement in coverage justifies that it is vastly more expensive, and incredibly wasteful environmentally of course. I think the solution is to make real fuzzers more dynamic to match these capabilities rather than lean into the LLMs. Also, I am of the opinion that the amount of effort people are putting into using LLMs for this and reviewing the findings could have been used to do a similarly thorough job the traditional way, but it's energy that wasn't being directed there because of a lack of hype towards it.
So in short, doesn't really make sense anywhere lol
I quite like using Kimi.ai for quick overviews of topics but you still have to fact-check its outputs.
Every other AI makes me pull my hair out but Kimi doesn't try to pretend to be a person, it behaves and speaks like a tool so it doesn't ever really piss me off. It can understand when you ask it to do something like gather a list of events/things with x rules between y dates too which actually is useful and does reduce my manual work occasionally. It's much much slower than other AI though because it does a lot more thinking.
Translation is the only one worth it, IMO.
