Goddam fucking chiggers. If you don't know what they are, consider yourself lucky. Also, it's a lot of work. Cutting grass, gardening, chainsawing wood. Can be a fulltime job.

I miss living in the countryside. I also know it would be very very bad for me and possibly mean my death. I miss being able to walk into the woods and disappear, not see anyone until i chose too. I miss being where I could hear the nature. Where I could go be in the green. Where I could hike and fish and be close to real dirt. But I dont miss my doctor being a 3 hour ride away (unless you have to wait for a ferry, then its 4 hours). I dont miss having no way out. I dont miss being isolated. I'm isolated enough in the city. I dont need more.

I moved out to the country for a lot of these reasons.

I like planning and preparing to have enough so I don’t ’run out cumin’ in the middle of a recipe. Having the space to garden and preserve my own food is amazing. This includes having a very robust personal pharmacy/emergency first response kits because urgent care is far.

Being one with the seasons, and the bugs, etc. is one of the best parts. My garden and food activities are change depending on the weather. I’m grateful for the rain and the beautiful days, and the for the days I am better off inside, I can work on my crafts and art projects.

You get ducks, mousers, and Shepard dogs to help with pests, all things you don’t have room for or rules that prevent them in suburbia and the city. Pest control including encouraging beneficial pests is also part of the garden health.

I think what you miss is convenience and I completely understand with children. The hardest part is there is no day off. But the freedom it gives is worth it for me. And working with nature instead of against it, including with my passive building designs, makes it feel a lot less hostile and like one big science experiment with testing going on in all different areas.

Reading every response further cements my view that for all the bullshit city and country life have to offer, they are paradise compared with the godforsaken wasteland known as suburbia. Literally just the worst parts of city and country life cemented together. Everyone here is either a paranoid landlord or a paranoid aspiring landlord. Security cameras are everywhere. Everyone who isn't the paranoid (aspiring) landlord's immediate family or friend, including neighbors, is some thief "casing" the scene. Can't do shit here. Can't hunt or fish. Can't go visit museums or art galleries. Just sit at home consooming Netflix and other slop all day every day. People here are as standoffish as city folks and as bigoted as country folks. Country-folk-larping suburbanites are a particular type of wretched creature.

Anyone who has the misfortune of being raised in the 'burbs completely understands why fascism begins in the 'burbs.

I grew up in a rural area and have lived in big cities. I always found myself thinking about how the country life is death and the cities are alive. People think it's the opposite. The country has animals and agriculture and trees and "less crime", so how can it be death?

I think it's a combination of things. The towns are just decaying remnants of mid-century America. Main street is pre-war shops built in the 20s and 30s by whatever big industry was local (tobacco for me). You can see post-war spending on various post offices or police stations and schools. In between all this are dilapidated ruins of former economic activity. Abandoned garages because the old man who fixed cars there since he was 20 died decades ago and it's just rotting where it stands. Rusty metal building for a machine shop that was outsourced before I was born. The big spooky abandoned or half-shut down factory for whatever big industry was local. Tract housing built by the big industry 80-100 years ago. The housing is terrible and falling apart but you can't update it because you're grandfathered into not spending $80k. Everything is small. Every restaurant is a mom-and-pop that everyone swears is the most unique and best food in the country but all they do is fry Sysco food. Basically they're trading in on some family name back when they made bbq or hamburgers in the 50s. Nothing is new. Every time something gets a fresh coat of paint, it's because someone spent their life savings to open a new business, like a laser wood burning/cutting shop, renovating the space, only to go out of business after a year.

Then when you move out of town, it's just fields of subsidized crops that nobody uses locally. Random subdivisions in the middle of nowhere because some developer bought the land for $1 from a farmer's estate. Rusting, aging farming equipment by the road. Yards full of old cars. These little oasis of nice mid-century and late-century homes occupied by some 64 year old who spend most of their adult life in some kind of post-war boom so they can afford to do landscaping. And that's the other thing, the people. It's just people who have lived here all their lives, deciding to not go anywhere, or not able to go anywhere. They're just waiting to die. There's nothing to do but go out to eat at tex-mex restaurant. It's just people sitting around doing nothing and working and preparing to be the ones who can afford landscaping in 30 years.

It's like living in the skeleton of a big dead thing with people who think it's really cool to prepare for death and die and be dead. They want you be dead like them too. And I don't tell anyone any of this because it probably sounds unhinged. But I also feel like they know it because they resent you if you have any bit of worldliness or cultural experience outside of morning chat at the local 1970s gas station with 2 pumps older than me and doesn't take cards. By worldliness I mean the most basic sense that you are a person in a larger world with other people with different cultures or experiences.

It's not that I hate the country life, it's just that it has cut me off from so much for so long. Nobody here seems very happy. Everyone seems to be struggling. The past won't go away because there is no mechanism to build a future. You can say big cities are like that too, but it's more apparent here. The city feels like it still has a pulse. I concede that it depends on the city because being alive doesn't imply also being good.

counterpoint: look at how great rural living is in China now that they have high speed rail to take them to the cities whenever they want in no time letting them have the best of both worlds

not that we're ever getting high speed rail

This is the kind of thing that led me to formulate rule tithonís rule #1: do not under any circumstances move to fuckass nowhere

30 minutes away

Running or biking on the roads is incredibly dangerous.

Sounds like you're not far enough out is your problem 😤

My mother was born and raised in a village, and she loves rural living in summer and hates it in winter. She goes back to her home village every summer for a couple weeks.

I frequently encounter radlibs who fantasize about "starting a commune" and living out in the countryside with only their select group of friends. And while I'm grateful for being invited, I really have to bite down on my tongue regarding how shitty of an idea it is in practice. Like we did that shit back in the 60s and they all turned into sex cults.

Glad to hear I'm validated about this. Agrarian Socialism: Not Even Once.

Apparently this post is not for me, as someone who enjoys living in the countryside. I respect your experience, I think it's very real and there are definitely significant challenges that city-people underestimate.

Now, despite being uninvited, I will actively push back so many of your ideas - I honestly think all of these accusations are not applicable in most rural places. Now it's possible you're in a shit area with genuinely shit people, and shit I really empathise if so. But forgive me when I say this sounds likely to be in meaningful part because you're living in the country with a city-dweller attitude and perspective, and that if you change your approach you might get more of what you want out of it.

I also say all this is a non-USAian so maybe it's completely different there. But of what I have seen I don't think it is entirely so. The working out part clearly is, however, as where I live there are legally enforced public footpaths and locally owned fields/forests all over the show in every direction, no shortage of running routes. I feel for you if there's a lack of that.

• That your neighbours are anti-social / you're isolated. Again, this will depend on your neighbours at the end of the day. My experience of the country is that I am in more of a community that looks out for each other than I have ever known to exist in a city. The difference is I had to make an effort to go out of my way to meet these people, say hi, bring a couple bits of homegrown veg or foraged fruit. And that people are less used to dealing with a diversity of people, so you typically need to be a bit more patient and understanding with where they're coming from. But once you are, you make friends and neighbours and reliable community members for life.
• That organising is impossible. Closely related to the above. Obviously it'll be impossible to easily get together a huge communist protest organised or whatever. But it's definitely possible to have productive movements. In a city you can raise a banner and you'll find people that come to it. In a village you need to engage people on an individual level. My tiny 100-person village has buying groups, free community food larders, about 50 people from here and neighbouring villages go and cause a nuisance at local towns in deliberate pro-Palestinian protest. One neighbouring village came together to protect a migrant resident from being deported by pigs. Organising happens regularly, but it's only a product of healthy and active community activity.
• That it's unsafe to play outside. This really does feel your most city-dweller-esque issue, but to live in the country you really do need a bit more of a "be smart about it" attitude rather than a "don't do anything that could ever potentially be unsafe" attitude. Nature is lovely and 99% of the time will be no trouble whatsoever. Be aware of rattlesnakes, but be smart about them and you'll be fine. FWIW most rural people feel the same about busy roads and unsafe neighbourhoods in cities.
• Being able to go buy stuff at a moment's notice. Certainly a truething, but again such a city-dweller attitude. Is immediate ability to buy anything you want necessarily a good thing? You don't have cumin? Then time to change tack and change the thing you're trying to do. It's a very city-attitude to consider that some meaningful issue. There is some flow-going that must be embraced.
• That you need to go travel for your regular haircut. To be honest I've never known a rural area that didn't have a very local hairdresser, but you might need to be 'in the know'. That shit might not be on Facebook or whatever. Plus is this really necessary? Just book it next time you're going somewhere if you need.

With all that pushback in mind, I do empathise with your issues. It's a shame you've fallen into these (fairly common) pittraps without realising them ahead of time. I say all this with two things in mind:

• That people who do consider the countryside don't get suckered into thinking it's inevitably an isolating and horrible way of living. I honestly do love it and despite having lived in a city, I cannot stand it, I really couldn't live another way. Rural areas have the nicest, most accomodating people I know - and it engenders that attitude because we gotta enjoy each other, there isn't anyone else around! This said, areas will differ, I'm sure there are plenty shit'uns.
• That I obviously hope your life improves, one way or another. But that I think there are some minor adjustments to your perspective and approach that might help alleviate some of your issues.

I'm not a farmer, but you still couldn't convince me to live in a city or sizeable town by ruddy gunpoint. Just shoot me.

I lived in an absolutely beautiful farmhouses with like a kilometer of land to work with and a lot of forest surrounding to mess around with to my hearts content. Still sucked and I was only living their cause of my partner and making the best of it, unlike everyone else who lived their on purpose cause they hsd similar bilbo dreams. It was my at the time partner, her grandma and her grandma's alcoholic 'poet' post divorce rebound boyfriend. The alcoholic guy was the only one with a car and he used that to keep us isolated and me in town cause I would work there for 3 days and then have 3 off. He would 'forget' to pick me up on his way back. My uncle who i dont like and while I dont think he did anything that crosses any lines, just prior to his divorce from my cousin's mom he moved them all to absolute buttfuck no where. The top of a mountain. Those kids are both socially bad from it and it has had some pretty big consequences, mostly one of them getting pregnant at 17 with a 25 year old being the father and then blaming a kid in her class and when his parents thought it was sus and wanted a test she became Christian. Having space to fuck around is great for kids, but it doesnt add up to much when there arent other kids to do so with.

One is from people who were raised in the country and love it.

The other type of response is from city dwellers, who when someone mentions rural living, are all like “awww that sounds like heaven to me :)”.

You forgot about the people who were born in the country and hate it

As someone who grew up mostly in a rural area and got the fuck out when I turned 18: I feel ya. There’s this romanticized vision of country culture as being homely and close-knit, but in reality it’s like you said, especially if you don’t have family there. Oh, well there is the cadre of busy body old farts that get up in everyone’s business to judge the fuck out of you.

But honestly the worst and real heart-breaking one is... as a parent, I am hoping to god that I can move us to city before my kids get to old.

That has been the biggest irony for me. The stereotype is the homely country school where kids are “safe,” whereas the urban school is always a den of drug dealers and gang members. But holy shit, my kids’ experience in school has been night and day from mine. Other than a bad kindergarten teacher, his teachers have been great, very understanding, and his classmates have, by and large, been the same. Bullying is practically non-existent, and I attribute that to the diversity of the school. When it’s a decently even mix of white kids, latino kids, Asian kids, Arabic kids, and a small number of black kids, there’s no opportunity for one group to become the dominant dickhead group.

My rural school, though, JFC it was like sharks out for blood. Any sign you were outside of the cultural status quo there, especially when it came to religion, you just became a bullied social pariah. You know that stereotype of midwestern rural white people putting on airs of being super friendly but underneath the facade they’re giant dicks? Yeah, their kids are that but haven’t learned to put the act on yet.

I grew up in a house in the forest four kilometres outside of a small village. I had the same experience that many others have of rural communities as intolerant. My parents were artsy intellectual types who didn't have that much money and that made me the weird kid in school, which was ten very lonely years. That sucked.

Being far from convenient services also sucked somewhat but I was a kid and I was used to it so it didn't bother me.

What didn't suck was that I had this huge forest I could roam around in. There was fresh air and no traffic. If I wanted to swim I could walk ten minutes down to the beach. I often miss that and being this close to nature.

I moved away to study and have lived in cities every since. Once in a while I toy with the idea of moving to the country, of getting an old farmhouse and have lots of space. But then I realise how much I like the convenience of living in the city, how I love my 15 minute commute and my easy access to groceries, healthcare and other services.

I'm probably never moving back to the countryside but I do o like going there once in a while.

yes, rural life do be different. convenience is very urban/suburban. unless you have more money than god or make a lot of friends, you are going to have to rely on yourself to do the sort of work that "contractors" do and find the boundary between what you can learn and what you really must hire out. there are precious few qualified skilled workers in rural communities and their clients are relational or wealthy beyond imagining.

"rural" is not a monolith either. it's a gradient ranging from the full service post office to the edge of the known universe, where all light tends to die out. and the things like "hostility toward bicycles & pedestrians" are confounded by geography, industry, and community. i've lived in places where bicycling on country roads is absolutely suicidal, because those poorly maintained roads are de-facto for a highly concentrated, extractive industry only and all other users beware. i've lived in others where there are well used bike trails that connect tiny little walkable towns, because the industry there is quaint, but seasonal tourism and the inhabitants democratically control the wealth collected from tourists.

certainly, a lot of people have views of rural/country life informed entirely by the hegemonic imaginaries, and therefore they know less than nothing about what it entails. there are people who grew up in one rural community that are completely baffled trying to understand what people in another rural community "do all fuckin' day". similarly, many urbanites fail to realize how dependent the functioning city is on a reserve army of dislocated laborers clamoring for the opportunity to cheaply sell their time to be a hired car, deliver a hot meal, snake a toilet, haul away some junk, deliver some specialized construction materials, or cut back some overgrown vegetation. in contrast, with less people around, lending someone a hand to get something done is more about time, capacity, and ability than how much cash you can fork over. most everybody in a rural place has more time/energy than money, so it makes more sense to have time/energy be the informal unit of exchange. you help somebody clean their gutters in the fall, they help you change your headlight in winter. that type of shit.

i grew up in the urban interface and once i became an adult, i found & took the opportunity to live and work outdoors in a lot of different types of rural places in different regions of the US (and even do seasonal outdoor work in rural communities overseas a few times, which is a real eye opener about how exceptionally shitty rural life in the US can be in the 21st century). over the last 20 years, i learned a lot about what level of convenience i actually want, and what features of civic life can be found in which rural places. i also figured out how to be pretty useful for all manner of common tasks and handy in most situations.

it also changed my demeanor pretty drastically in adapting to always make time for the people in my area and seeking out opportunities to help and or learn from someone. there's not many of us, so we should periodically check on one another even if it's just to share some anecdote about some wildlife or weather forecasts. not to mention, i generally live slower & more deliberate now. all my nights are a quiet night in, and i wouldn't want it any other way. i do not think it's for everyone, just like city life isn't. my parents and siblings are all city people and can't seem to understand why i made these choices or frankly any aspect of my value system. and i've certainly met my share of city people that moved out to some rural community that bit off more than they could chew.

if i could stress anything, it's that urbanization is an accumulation of homogenizing processes both socially and ecologically. the rural interface is defined by a reduced intensity of many or all of those same processes. while rural communities share many characteristics when viewed materially, they cane be quite distinct in their character and this distinct character has an influence on the inhabitants. i've loved some rural communities i've lived in, and there are some the only way you could get me there is to drug me and dump me there. and generally speaking, the difference is driven by what capital formations dominate the landscape.

I really like both options. I live rural and enjoy having room to shoot guns, have bonfires, drunk driving in a golf cart where I can only hurt myself. But….. holy shit I love a big city, Berlin would be a wet dream. Holy shit you can walk to everything? You can ride a train to even more shit!

I want everything on top of me, or room to breath. Fuck suburbs.

One is from people who were raised in the country and love it.

No, it's rich petite bourgeois who were raised in a nicely built house their dad either built or paid to have built and have never had to deal with trying to fix some fucking stupid-ass electrical system some sub-functional farmer in the 1960s jerry-rigged to add a 240v outlet for the dryer. Or have its floors caving in due to leaking. And you have to either know someone who will help you or do it yourself because hiring anyone to do shit out here is expensive as fuck.

If you don’t have a place to run or have the space and money for some home equipment, forget working out. And btw rural areas are incredibly hostile to running, unless of course you own a ton of land and make your own paths. Running or biking on the roads is incredibly dangerous.

Yeah this part sucks ass. That's part of why I got a bicycle even though it's also dangerous it's at least more enjoyable and probably safer since I can see a little farther over hills and get out of the way a little faster. Even walking on your own property is probably bad due to how fucking bad the bugs and ticks and stuff can be, at least here. They spray the roads here but anything off-road is going to be a buggy nightmare.

I was born and raised in a place where the cows outnumber the humans 5:1. Unincorporated cotton and onion fields in the south Texas scrub brush close enough to the border that sometimes you could see the smugglers crossing the border on foot.

I'm a part of the group you mentioned who was born in the boonies and like it. I moved about two and a half years ago from the boonies to the city because my kids wanted to explore big city life and do college. They prefer city living but only just so, if they are telling the truth.

When/if my kids go to college etc, I will move back to the boonies if I can manage it. I miss it. I didn't lock my trailer doors. I left my car keys in the ignition. I didn't have to worry. I'm used to the ants, and rattlesnakes and stink bugs I suppose.

It sucks to hear you don't like it.

A point I wanted to make but forgot… a lot of liberals get weepy over the idea of Stalin and Mao industrializing their economies and getting people off the farm and into the cities. We will always need folks out there growing food, and I’m genuinely grateful for them (and living out here has made me more grateful). But I think that most people like city life, and having your population go from say 80% rural to 80% urban is a pretty huge benefit to the population writ large.

Yeah, the general rule of my life has been the denser the community, the happier I am. My biggest issue with small rural communities is that, in my experience, people in those places are very often incurious and anti-intellectual while at the same time thinking they've got the whole world figured out. The only thing I really hate about urban life is the traffic, and that's something that could be solved if the US wasn't utterly carbrained.

Similar to what Came Apart at K-Mart said, this is all extremely context dependent, I think. Though I do feel for you considering yours, it sounds like a nightmare and I hope that somehow you can make it more manageable. Or hell, maybe you could rent it out as a rustic vacation getaway and that income can get you back to the city lol. I figure you've considered that but I know for myself I take every opportunity I can to go to cabins out in the woods for every vacation I have.

I really loved living on a farm out of town, but I think that my situation was quite different from yours. I moved into a place where a pretty good friend group was established amongst more liberal folks. Wasn't a commune per se, but a lot of social interaction. It was also in a beautiful area, and I had a job on the property that was secured; it was unpredictable and kinda meager but enough for someone like me to get by on. I miss the quiet and nature and sound of the coyotes at night and chasing the chickens around when they got out. But I was barely there a year so my outlook may be completely different had I stayed for a couple years or something. I could see it getting monotonous.

However, I would never recommend a city person move to the country unless they spend some time out there, and I don't mean a weekend. I think you're right to be annoyed by people who idealize the life, even if I enjoyed it. There are things you'd never think you'd miss, or things that you must learn or have on hand that I don't think even the most researched person would really think about.

For my own self satisfaction/I love making lists I'm just gonna put some things here that I think are essentials to know for other people reading this who are considering rural living. If this doesn't appeal to you don't do it. A lot of this has already been said but:

• research research research and visit the places you're considering. What is the history? What industries are there, demographics, has industry died out?
• General Stores in my experience are the places where people hang out and socialize. Go in the mornings and sit outside with your cup of coffee and eventually you'll end up talking to someone. I wouldn't try to live somewhere that doesn't have any kind of hub like that, or a restaurant/bar/grange hall within a 10 minute drive. There are pockets of rural areas that are more liberal/community minded than others but you really gotta look for it and of course it's not going to be exclusively liberal. If you can't stomach being apolitical in the company of other locals, or being around reactionaries, don't do it. In my experience it was pretty easy to avoid political talk but ymmv.
• You need a truck, or a vehicle with decent clearance that can tow a small trailer. I would never move out to the country without one or the other, and whether a truck is optional is dependent on how rugged the area is.
• You need a 22 rifle at least and know how to use it.
• You need a generator, probably a big expensive one in case you get snowed in for a couple weeks or power goes out otherwise.
• Speaking of getting snowed in, you need to stock up on non-perishables that will last you a couple weeks if you can.
• You need to make sure that your home has defensible space if you live in wildfire country. No trees 10 feet away from the house, clear dry brush or get some goats lol.
• Get your well water tested
• You gotta be okay getting dirty, rolling around in the mud and getting smelly. No one is gonna fix shit for you, you gotta do it yourself
• UNLESS you make friends with the curmudgeonly old dude with a heart of gold at the general store who you can trade favors with.
• If you aren't willing to shovel gravel in 80+ degree weather or chop a cord of wood or lug hog panel around or pound T-posts in the ground or clear brush and invasives out for half the summer, it's probably not for you. You'll get real tan and buff and feel real masculine and sexy though (regardless of gender). This can substitute for structured workouts, and it's all functional movement too which is important.
• Get a pocket knife, it'll come in handy and you'll feel real cool with it.
• Gotta learn to garden and preserve your own food.
• Wild animals will eat your garden.
• When you grocery shop you need to plan for two weeks to a month of food to avoid constant trips.
• You MUST be comfortable with improvising and doing without. When it comes to cooking, building/repairing shit, whatever. If you NEED convenience, you will not get it. Just don't.

I'd love to hear from other folks what they would add to this, too

I feel all of this. Spent a year and a half in a rural area after moving from a still relatively small college town. It was the most depressed and isolated I've felt in my whole life. My partner was concerned I was suicidal. I wasn't. But I was in such despair thinking we were going to be stuck somewhere with no jobs, no social life or activities other than hunting, fishing, and drinking, surrounded by people with Trump and Don't Tread on me flags on every other house.

Our only friends were the very few people who were transplants from other places like California. The locals could tell we weren't from there and reacted poorly whenever we told them the liberal area we came from.

The most you can organize there is to try and get something like municipal fiber going.

We're near a large city again and I've never been in better shape mentally and physically too since the mental has helped me exercise regularly.

You said you're stuck there for the moment but I hope you're able to change things and get in a better place as soon as possible. We eventually lost work and had 0 reason to stick around, otherwise we might still be in the same boat.

I grew up in a (smallish) city with both of my parents bizzarely trying to escape to some imagined rural haven or whatever. The result of which mostly seems to be carbrain. If you don't have a car out there you literally can't do shit, which I know probably isn't a change for americans, but I got used to taking the bus.