Anonymous_Leaker
PrivacyThe link has a ton of information.
Now, It is obvious that putting it completely offline is more safe. But, some people often use the TV's to watch Netflix or something like that. Then they might forget that it is still connected to the internet when they are done watching.
Under Privacy Settings, there are options for Device Usage Data, Collect App and Over-the-Air Usage, and Interest-Based Ads. All are enabled by default, but you can disable them.
PiHole/AdGuard on the network and/or don't connect the tv to the internet.
Also the apps on the store have some how even less privacy protections thenyoue phone.
Half the apps let your TV act as a proxy for botnets. They need residential IPs otherwise sites won't let them in to scrape all the data illegally, or use bots to wrote fake comments or inflate views.
Sucks you can't just get a normal TV anywhere they all have to come with android and are sold at a loss because companies like Netflix pay to get their spyware perm installed into the TV. Literally if you want to buy a decently sized television (not a monitor under 26 inches) you pretty much have to buy a commercial TV that they use in drive throughs,and they cost like 5-10 grand because theres no spyware in it.
I got a Scepter 55" dumb TV for like, 600$ in Nov. 2024
I figured between tariffs and the orange, shit was gonna get more expensive and less private
The difficulty I have with my Samsung TV' is that the content from netflix looks much better on the netflix app on the TV than say using netflix on a fire stick or anything else
I think it comes down to the hdr10+ stuff, but it is noticeably different
It could be picture settings. Make sure the Fire stick's HDR is set to adaptive (it defaults to always on which looks horrible), and on the TV itself the power saving is turned off.
Ah I was using an example, the device I have from my TV provider doesn't do hdr10+
I can't watch live sport without the device so effectively I use that for live TV stuff and the TV itself for app based stuff (netflix, Disney, apple etc etc)
Everybody in this thread: "Instead of that, just do this incredibly complex techy thing and build up your own library with multiple PBs of stolen media"
I'd love to ditch my Roku stick (already unplugged LG tv from internet). I use plex for some stuff...
I probably will set up a raspberry pi but most people cannot do this
Rootmy.tv + a good firewall like opensense can help
My 6yo was falling down into youtube rabbit holes of total brainrot. And then netflix started offering similar content.
I cancelled all my subscriptions, run jellyfin, ytdl-sub, and other required stuff[tm], my TVs don't have internet access any more. Just jellyfin access. Reading this validates my decision for me.
The correct answer is VLAN/MAC jail or no connection.
Even DNS blocks won't stop persistent tracking which often has fallback IPs.
Isolate it and only allow the domains you need.
Not the correct answer, because the defective products will start bugging you about lack of connectivity, and eventually can stop working.
Isolate it and only allow the domains you need.
"*" match solves lazy domain matching and smart TV OEMs would be getting lawsuited if they failed to function without an internet connection when HDMI input is provided.
It seems they are not getting sued enough.
Better solution: do not buy such defective products.
Its the only sane thing to do.
Oh, come on, just don't connect it to the Internet = problem solved. HDMI cables all the way!
I am told the smartannoyances start nagging, and some eventually refuse to work without OTA upgrades.
So, no, the first step is: do not buy these.
Don't some roku TVs require a connection now.
Don’t buy things from scumbags.
korea ? why ?
Don't connect them to the Internet.
Done.
Not done, they have shown to jump on unsecured networks to phone home. That coulr be a neighbour or a guests hotspot.
Edit: I was correctly asked to source this and couldnt, it was a few reddit posts without back up. I should have checked before posting
Who has shown it? Never seen anyinebprove that.
Where's your proof? I have never heard of this happening. Anyway, my Wi-Fi shows that there are no insecure networks around me.
Got any sources for this? This seems unlikely to be true at any scale
they have shown to jump on unsecured networks to phone home.
Source?
Not the person that commented, but this fear does stem from a real thing years ago related to, I believe, Amazon Fire TVs that were using some sort of mesh functionality to get data out. It was not wide spread, and now I can't find any links about it, but I did at the time when I was worried about it and I was trying to find more information. If I am not mistaken, this was a feature that Amazon actually patented, so I don't think it would have become common anyway. I know that without a good link this is just heresay, and that's fine to leave it that way since I don't think it is still happening anyway. If anyone else can manage to find a link, please share it hear as it is interesting and can show that it isn't likely a major concern.
Don't reward shitty practices with your money. Just don't buy them.
Where can you buy a non-smart TV ? I searched a lot, there is nowhere to buy such TV for private consumers. I could find some Hotel or Hospital TVs on eBay, they are all expensive and shit specs.
Get a smart TV which lets you go through set-up without Wi-Fi. Google TV (which is suprising for GOOGLE) models support that.
Sceptre was still offering some non-smart TVs that were quite cheap and work fine. They aren't going to be super impressive in technical specs, but they work just fine. It might be worth considering a soundbar or speakers though, as that is one place you can feel the quality difference.
Most importantly, they aren't available where I live.
There are several dumb tvs, such as the Samsung BEFX-H series and the LG UN640S. Yes, they are more expensive, because they don't make money with ads and paid services.
These are exactly the kind I was looking at and couldn't find anywhere to buy as a private consumer, apart from some suspicious eBay listings.
Amazon is showing BEFX-H series for me and not even that expensive, but with it being Samsung you're stuck on LCD which can be a downside for many
This is the reason I have a 20+ year old plasma TV. Absolutely nothing smart and still somewhat thin. Also the picture is sometimes better for movies because of how it handles blacks and contrast.
Burns more electricity I guess. But most plasmas should be around the time of the flat TV crazy started before LED took off. Before they started making them cheaper by stuffing them full of spy software.
You can get a smart TV and set ut up without Wi-Fi. You can do that on Google TV, Tizen and WebOS. You will have to turn off the eco mode and motion smoothing so it is not dim and blurry.
Do you have some TV box connected to it? Like Nvidia Shield, Apple TV 4K, Chromecast Ultra, Roku, Fire TV or some Linux box?
Very large computer monitors.
I wish. 55" computer screens are hard to come by.
Oof, I haven't had to shop for a tv in over a decade, so I assume it will be worse when it's my time.
I got rid of my old TV that was developing purple spots when I moved to another apartment. I ended up going for a smart LG OLED tv with the specs I was looking for. Available at a good price. It's not connected to the network and boot straight to my Nvidia shield.
I've had nothing but good experiences with LG tvs
They have been up to pretty shady stuff as of lately, like blocking your TV if you don't accept the new terms of the user agreement which mandates sending your data to 500 and some partners. As long as it never ever gets an internet connection, it should be fine.
That sounds fucked
I bought some cheap "Sceptre" TV on Amazon 4 years ago. You're not going to be able to walk into a Best Buy or Walmart and find one, that's for sure.
Someone on Lemmy has recommended me Sceptre, unfortunately I couldn't find anywhere to buy one in Germany. Also the specs aren't great, I was looking for an OLED panel.
Every person does not do this. They will still use it for the apps on the TV.
Limit, not disable.
Correct.
Just don't connect them to the internet, then it doesn't matter.
People connect them to the internet to use YouTube or something, and then just forget that it is still online. This is for those people who are unaware. And a smart TV can still be hacked while disconnected from Wi-Fi, that is obviously harder to do.
If those people are unaware, then make them aware. Telling them to disable telemtry instead of taking them offline completely is simply bad advice.
Turning off those features still help. That is why I posted, so some are aware... People have smart TV's to use the internet. That is kind of the whole point of having them. Most people just don't disconnect their TV from the Wi-Fi every time they are done streaming. Which, that would be a GOOD IDEA idea.
People have them because there is no other option. I would love to see a TV version of GrapheneOS with no BS come out some day.
Most people just don’t disconnect their TV from the Wi-Fi every time they are done streaming. Which, that would be a GOOD IDEA idea.
No, because the smart TV just stores the data it wants to send and sends it as soon as it is online again.
No, because the smart TV just stores the data it wants to send and sends it as soon as it is online again.
If this is true, that is diabolical.
Why wouldn't it be true? This is how every logging system works.
That was a blind spot for me. You are right.
That is why I posted, so people are aware...
You're making them aware of the wrong things, as I just finished saying.
People have smart TV's to use the internet
They can still use the internet without connecting their TV to it. You just plug another device into it.
I know what a TV does, smart TV's enables more features when it is online. SOME people just have a smart TV and that is it.
No they don't.
Yes they do! People for sure just have smart TV's, and they have tons of apps when connected online. Load up Netflix and then they are done. Old people especially, do it all the time. That is all they use. That and probably just a phone. Shit, some still have landlines. They live alone and had somebody set it up for them.
There was some sort of scandal a few years back that some smart TVs (Samsung?) were using not just open networks (let's be honest, there usually aren't any), but other smart TVs if the same manufacturer to be able to send their telemetry. I don't know what game of that, or if that was ever made illegal (probably not).
Source? Keep hearing people say this but no one ever provides a source. Think its just a tail at this point.
Hasnt there been claims of the smart tv's automatically connecting to open WiFi to update and or send data.
I don't think this is real, but if it is can you provide a link? I'm not finding anything easily with a search and randomly throwing out claims like this is not productive.
That's why I called it a claim, I never found evidence myself, it just wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
So you're just spreading misinformation.
I never stated it as fact, nor was it my attempt to have it come across as one. Just a rumor people have claimed.
I could have been more clear in that in hindsight.
There's claims about this, connecting automatically to open wifi is a "feature" of Android, any smart bullshit based on android can have the same behaviour.
1 person posting on reddit isn't enough for me to believe they didn't simply misunderstand what happened. There are a lot of tech-illiterate people out there and if this was a thing I'm pretty sure we'd see people reproducing the results and posting procedures to do so.
Yeah I also don't think this hold much water, even if the TV automatically connect to the wi-fi, turn the wi-fi feature on/off automatically seems unlikely.
Often needed with software updates for the TV itself.
What features does a smart TV provide when not connected to the internet? (serious question, I've never had a smart TV)
Most let you use the HDMI ports and antenna. Only some like Roku models block everything.
Probably none, but it's getting harder to buy a non-smart TV
I still got a 720p TV, LOL!
I'll tell you what my 2 "smart" tvs do as they are not connected to the internet, they act as a slow to turn on display of my desktop. 27" monitor press power button, less than 10 seconds looking at desktop, 40" samsung smart tv 15-20+ seconds to see the desktop without a stupid overlay, 65" samsung 4k smart tv 30-45 seconds till desktop is fully visible.
TL:DR NONE! Use as a monitor
They tend to be cheaper or have more features. The income from data harvesting subsidizes the price.
Plus, in a lot of places you can't get dumb TVs without them being commercial displays, which have different priorities. Businesses don't really care about having 60hz, HDR, OLED, or low latency. Sometimes they don't even care about having 4K resolution.
None? The idea is not to get more features, it's to take it offline so it can't send data about you back home. Plug in another smart device into the TV and use that for streaming and such.
Dumb tvs are still sold in some places. If it's impossible to get a dumb TV and have a pc, at that point it makes more sense to get a simple monitor and use the pc as the smart device so you actually have full control. The android boxes you connect to tvs are not the epitome of privacy either.
This is true. Almost every streaming box sells your data out of the box. Roku is one of the worst. Nvidia Shield is pretty bad too.
"Dumb TVs" are extremely rare. You can buy most TVs and just not connect them to the internet and achieve the same thing.
This feels like such a waste but if there really aren't any dumb tvs around anymore, oh well
Never connect it to your wifi and use an open source Linux or android media box instead. If you can buy a tv or projector without any smart device baked in.
I think it’s important to note that most of the devices you’ll find if you just search for a cheap and generic “Android media box” are not going to be any better for your privacy. Even if you ignore the data collection you subject yourself to with Android, you might be purchasing a botnet node or a backdoor into your home network.
A docked Steam Deck works for this. It even has HDMI-CEC
Most definitely, it's essentially a full Linux PC. You could do a lot of things with it.
So 720p streaming and a lot of maintenance.
I so very much want to ditch closed source but then i'm limited to piracy really, and any setup really requires hours of maintenance here and there at minimum.
So 720p streaming and a lot of maintenance.
Video frontends like GrayJay and Revanced let you pick streaming resolution and it actually gets followed. Plus they work for multiple services like Youtube, Patreon, Nebula.
If you're not happy about getting 720p from Netflix in a browser, that's from Netflix being cunts. You're better off voting with your wallet and dropping them.
Also, maintenance? It's minimal. You get an update popup in the video frontend maybe once per week and wait 30 seconds after hitting "yes". And you can add an extension on Deckyloader to autoupdate all of your software in the background each day without needing to do anything
Hours? Running Fedora and enabling DRM on Firefox ain't that complex, neither is installing the waydroid flatpak. I think you're really blowing the situation out of proportion. Assuming you already have the iso probably like 30 minutes to get set up including a full install.
Not who you were responding to, but it took me weeks and several iterations to get an acceptable working HTPC for the family. Sure what you described can get you up and running in Netflix in a browser rather quickly, but try handing that solution over to a 6 year old and see how that goes. That experience is nowhere near what you get with say a Google tv, where everything just works right out of the box.
Linux can't do streaming on the major apps over 720p, there are no apps designed for the TV, you have to use the browser. The Jellyfin desktop app is pretty bad on Linux, and so is Plex.
The solution I finally landed on was Kodi with the Jellyfin add on and a flirc remote. That works well. But it's not something you are going to get working in 30 minutes, and you have to go full pirate. It is a terrible experience compared to Google tv otherwise.
Yeah one of the distros I listed above which I haven't used personally is literally just enough Linux to run kodi. I mean installing Kodi also only takes seconds. Now to be clear we're talking about billion and trillion dollar companies vs a group of people mostly volunteering their time for free. On one side you get no privacy or flexibility but amazing customer service and UI. On the other it's isn't as polished but far more free, private, and flexible.
When making deals with the devil things are usually nice at first until he comes to collect later. That's the whole gimmick. Get people by the nuts by making it so easy for them to walk into your grasp.
Ya, LibreElec is what you are referring to probably. That was actually the first thing I tried and wow was it unstable. Averaged maybe 5 or 6 crahes per day. And their forums were near useless, the devs there were closing nearly every ticket due to piracy.
Once I got onto a standard distro things improved dramatically. First I tried the Plex desktop app. No hardware decoding, so the thing couldn't really play 4k at all. Then I tried Jellyfin. That couldn't play anything period, and the remote didn't work.
Kodi worked immediately, minus audio passthrough. Took hours to figure that out.
Once you get it all working it's awesome and it's what I use to this day. But I would only ever suggest it to someone if they are willing to go 100% pirate and willing to troubleshoot. It was literal weeks to get all the quirks worked out.
where/how do you get an open source android media box?
You buy one from the internet, any hardware that can run Android Open Source Project (AOSP) like the Ugoos AM8 Pro, Generic Amlogic Boxes. You could use certain arm and x86 hardware and run waydroid on top of Linux or install android like LineageOS, BlissOS, PrimeOS AndroidTV-x86_64, and FydeOS. You can use like an SBC like a raspberry pi or an old laptop or something. In short there's. A lot of pathways to get this done that doesn't involve sending all your data back to the TV or streaming box manufacturer.
Maybe the easiest way is just using Linux and waydroid on really any hardware. There are specified Linux OS's like LibreELEC, OSMC (Open Source Media Center), LinuxMCE, but it's not necessary you run a specified OS. Also easier to slap a hard drive on that badboy and get a media server going with Plex or jellyfin and host other stuff like kiwix, pinhole, nextcloud and so on. Just pair with a Bluetooth keyboard trackpad combo and you're good to go.
I’ve been rocking a 46 inch Sony xbr 1080p tv for like 22 years. It just broke last week :(
That thing was awesome. It had nine types of inputs, DisplayPort, hdmi, super video, dvi, rca. It even had optical audio in and out. It was a $10,000 tv when it came out and I watched it for a while until it was something like $3300 and I bought it.
I replaced it with a 55inch Samsung for $300. The picture is 22years better :) but the rest of it is throw away junk. It will never get connected to the internet and it will never get a software update. I think this is the logical conclusion to cheap tvs, they just become 100% enshittified.
You can make the Samsung even better by turning off the energy saving to make it brighter and turning off the motion smoothing so it doesn't hallucinate extra frames in 24/25/30 fps video.
Is the picture really better though? All the new stuff has image processing crap due to refresh rate mismatches and loads of older content never got a HD release, let alone 4k. I'm never gonna stop watching stuff like Star Trek, and voyager looks like dogshit given it never got a release beyond DVD because of how they did the editing.
Don't get me wrong, I know you can modify all kinds of settings to minimize the impact of the image processing. Turning off the processing gives you a ton of problems, and enabling the processing can work in some media but doesn't work quite right in others.
With my home setup the difference between plex, netflix and other streaming services can be pretty big depending on the formats supported by the specific show even. It's all a mess and if you want it to be right odds are you need to really mess with it and even then you only have so many options. Getting a new TV has not been as positive as I hoped for, but i've gotten used to it and just accept that some things look kinda garbage because tweaking one thing often makes one show better, but others might not be as good as a result.
You need to keep the frame rate matching on and motion smoothing off. On an LG you turn "Real Cinema" or "Cinema Screen" on and turn "TruMotion" off. On a Sony, you set "CineMotion" to High and "MotionFlow" on with both sliders set to minimum.
Ya, I think it’s much better to be honest. I hate all the interpolation post processing crap too, but it just turn it all off. I found the old tv has a lot more light bleed from the back panel, and the newer tvs have blacker blacks and more contrast. I do think they are significant upgrades. But everything else is a major downgrade from the number of ports, the durability, the extra crap shoved down my throat, etc.
But if you use it just like a dumb monitor, it’s a great cheap tv.
You should maybe connect it once for update. At least check firmware update changelogs to see if anything is relevant.
I have an LG and experienced a weird picture problem for over a year... it was infuriating. Firmware update fixed it.
You should have just returned it. If it doesn't work out of the box, you don't need it.
Well then i would need to make sure the new screen has the latest firmware.
I dont think connecting my tv to the internet for 5mins is the end of the world. I'm not THAT paranoid
Although i noticed that the tv made 100 dns requests the moment it connected
People connect their TVs to the internet? Why would you do that?
To watch YouTube or Netflix, lol, is that new to you? I don't do it but more people do than you think.
Smart tv's are new, relatively. Their apps always suck and they spy on you. There are nice devices to make the streaming happen.
I also happen to be making this comment in a discussion forum based on privacy. So I would imagine most people here, in fact, would not just connect the giant spying device to the internet.
This is to help anybody that actually uses them online.
Best advice: take it offline. You can't trust it.
It is good advice, but tell that to the old people that want to watch YouTube on a big screen lol.
tell that to the old people that want to watch YouTube on a big screen lol
Why do you have a big screen if you don't watch anything on it? Am I old if I don't want to kill my neck holding an anxiety rectangle in front of my nose?
Big screen with the audio loud as it can be, lol. I service houses, I seen it countless of times.
Privacy or not? That's the question.
Being unknowingly spied on, yes, it is about privacy.
Manage your own DNS. Problem solved.
Oh yea? Tell that over the phone to the old granny that lives alone to do that. People like that have no idea how to. Not everybody is that tech savvy.
Step 1) Host your own DNS resolver(s).
Step 2) Open port :53
Step 3) Visit granny and login to her router
Step 4) ???
Step 5) Granny Profit
Visit a random granny 1000 miles away for a $100 job lol, sure. Much easier to explain how to reduce data being sent back.
Alternate thing-your-comment-fits-as-a-reply-to: Quentin’s character in Pulp Fiction
What?
Genuinely zero idea how people use TVs on their own, with wi-fi connected, and no HTPC. Not only is it mostly spyware, it's a horrendous experience too.
Just get a tiny pc with a wireless keyboard + touchpad combo, and use that instead of a Smart TV's built-in OS. More secure, more private, more feature-rich, more convenient. If you watch TV (I can't see why anyone would), then you can even watch that online.
I can't stand "smart" TVs. I'd choose a Raspberry Pi and huge monitor over one any day
Except maybe the Nvidia Shield; it's genuinely pretty good. I have Retroarch installed on it, but I don't use it much (no monitor for it lol).
Do projectors do the same kind of shenanigans? I've seen many that got bad ratings because of "lackluster smart functions".
If you use the built in smart apps, then 100% YES. However if you leave the Wi-Fi disconnected then plug your own box in then they're fine. The same applies to most smart TVs, except Roku and Fire models.
I read that put those things on a separate guest WiFi is a good option for better security too ?
True, it is more secure with a secondary guest network. But I doubt it stops data from being sent back in this case. A strong Wi-Fi password is always recommended too with a guest network.
This advice feels like "Have you moved to the surface of the sun? Make sure to drink lots of water." It's not wrong, but also not particularly helpful. The only solution is to stop buying these things. Ideally take them back and get a refund if it isn't too late.
Most will keep using smart TV's on the internet. It is helpful in reducing the data sent back.
I really hope there are wifi dummy boards that allow you to fake your device being connected despite not being able to connect to any network. Warranty be damned, I'd be more than willing to cut open a TV to either replace the board or just completely disconnect it.
I only have 1 smart tv. I use andriod boxes with productivity launcher..and one firestick that needs to go. I like to taunt amazon that they aint getting a penny.
The start tv is set up as dumb but it still has the stupid interface from the time it was bought. The poster of wicked. I have it setup that the box launches first but sometimes i land on there instead and it pi$$$$$es me right off. Any way to somehow disable that crap?
