The good guys
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geneva_convenience
United States | News & Politicsit doesn’t end there!
American Rape of Vietnamese Women was Considered “Standard Operating Procedure”
i’d include a quote here but every sentence in this article is more horrible than the last. i recommend you (the entity reading this reply) read this article if discussion of rape and war do not bother you. towards the end, it details how american media (especially movies) worked to downplay (and even invert!!!) these atrocities.
This is really eye-opening. Didn't know Americans were THIS inhumane during the war in Vietnam.
This is really eye-opening. Didn't know Americans were THIS inhumane during the war in Vietnam.
War is ugly. Vietnam is fascinating because of how the media at the time was able to make it so public. Soldiers were interviewed constantly and were open a out their sins, helped by a lot of anti-government sentiment because of the unpopularity of the war.
But it isnt a vacuum of how inhumane the US or any country has been during war.
English translation: “For services in Song Mi”
I was just reading about the My Lai massacre of 1968.
Not to "whatabout...." this scene, but the Danish movie "Land of Mine" was very thought provoking for me in a lot of ways.
It follows German POWs, post WWII, forced to clear mines from the beaches. Their country did indeed place the mines, but these people forced to clear them were not the actual people who placed them, certainly didn't call for them to be placed there, and the Danish government knew they were not trained in landmine disposal. Many were killed in the process, and the whole practice was against the Geneva Convention. They were promised to be freed after clearing the beach but were then shipped off to other beaches to continue this dangerous work. The film was made at one of the actual beaches, and a real mine was discovered during filming.
I don't particularly enjoy war movies, but I feel the good ones show us the ways that all our leaders have forced or conned regular people into doing horrible things in the name of their country, but when we look back in hindsight and see it was a damn lie, it still never changes anything. Every country is guilty of it, and photos like the one above or the movie I mention can be good reminders, hopefully before more people get forced into these situations.
Conversely, Joyeux Noël about the WWI Christmas Truce was great, in seeing all sides grasping the pointlessness of the situation they were placed in and uniting as individuals in peace and friendship surrounding their shared values until the leadership on all sides found out what was going on and declared peace was an unacceptable outcome of war and had to stop at once.
Individuals undoubtably are capable of atrocities, but I think it's very seldom they came up with those ideas on their own, as opposed to cowards far away in a room somewhere forcing others to be their pawns in some pointless game nobody else really wanted to play.
most evil empire in history
Eh.... I don't know if the US has been around long enough to really grab that title. It kinda depends on who you are laying blame to for the vast majority of the genocide against native Americans. Most of the deaths during the great dying in the Americas happened before the concept of America as a country even began.
If you're looking at the amount of people killed and adjusted for the comparative populations, it's probably the Spanish empire. If you are looking at the number of different cultures affected it's probably the British. I would say America wins the most evil modern empire, but history is pretty brutal and America kinda missed the majority of the age of exploration and the colonial era.
Germany gets a lot of (well deserved) heat for the nazis, but it is a true testament to the efficacy of propaganda investments that the US does not have a worse reputation. Even hitler wrote about how he was inspired by the US to do the things he did.
I agree with you. The US is, and always has been, a cancer on the planet more malicious than any other.
China is a socialist country, it does not have the economic compulsion towards colonization and imperialism that capitalist countries do. China gains independence from the west and potential customers by facilitating trade outside the domination of the west, that's what it gains.
China is an oligarchy, my man. They're better than the west for now, but the same kind of greedy bastards run their country as do the rest of ours.
Regardless of that, though, they are still operating in the "country with the most doubly so" world. So they have the incentive to fuck over other countries to enrich themselves/ promote their ideologies.
But like. What have they actually done that is so scary?
So you don't have an example.
As I suspected, this is just anarcho-cynicism: human nature is evil, power is evil, there is zero difference between any nations, everything is the same, nothing matters, etc etc.
They are not white, reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaally scary!!!!!!
Please don't strawman. Thanks
No, China is a socialist country. The working classes are the ones that control the state, and as a consequence policy is directed towards their interests. Capitalists exist in a cage, used primarily for the beneficial socializing aspect markets have with respect to disconnected, smaller and competitive industries.
Secondly, I have no idea what you mean by "country with the most doubly so" bit. China isn't dominated by finance capital and does not have the economic forces compelling imperialism that the west has. Imperialism isn't just something people do, it's economically compelled.
China has the second most billionaires in the world, man. They can call themselves whatever they want, economic inequality like that is a clear sign of oligarchy. Or do you have some other explanation on how someone can "earn" thousands of times more than others in a supposedly fair system? If the workers own their excess, why do you still have hoarders? How do you still have hoarders?
China has the second most billionaires in the world
How about you look at it by rate as opposed to using raw numbers when comparing a country of 1.4 Billion to much smaller countries (you might then come to realize by rate China is down near India while being far more developed).
economic inequality like that is a clear sign of oligarchy
No its not. Its a symptom of a private sector (and thus some private property) continuing to exist.
If the workers own their excess, why do you still have hoarders? How do you still have hoarders?
Because the trade off was refusing to make use of market relations and remain spreading equal poverty under the Gang of Four.
I was right you really have no idea what you're talking about.
China has capitalists, yes. This does not mean they control the economy. As I already said, capitalists exist in a cage, used primarily for the beneficial socializing aspect markets have with respect to disconnected, smaller and competitive industries. To dogmatically collectivize even highly underdeveloped industry is a misstep, which was committed by the Gang of Four.
Socialist countries like the USSR and DPRK that have more tightly controlled economies are typically this way due to encirclement and needing to defend themselves, not because this is the most sensible course for development from a Marxist perspective. Even in the USSR, Stalin had the artels, which were essentially worker cooperatives, well after the end of the NEP.
Trying to centrally plan a bunch of small businesses would be a nightmare, but it's much easier to plan large industry. That's why the basis of communism is large industry, and why one of the most critical tasks of any socialist country is to develop the productive forces in the best way possible. China allows limited private property for the progressive role it plays in comparison to small businesses and other petty production.
How familiar are you with Marxism? China's economy makes perfect sense when viewed from a Marxist angle, and they are Marxist-Leninists.
China is an oligarchy, my man. They’re better than the west for now, but the same kind of greedy bastards run their country as do the rest of ours.
Really showing you have exactly 0 (or in fact possibly a negative) understanding of China, and the Chinese state.
This is like a 6hrs documentary about
To be clear, this isn't to minimize the fucked up shit, but to get people to realize that the fucked up shit is a result of the system, rather than some remarkable evil in the hearts of some "other".
Thinking that evil is a thing that exists is a thing that we use to distance ourselves from what we're all capable of doing. It's better to be honest about that shit than to hide behind tribalism for comfort. "I could never do that because I'm [some in-group that's really the same as most in-groups]"
But honestly, I'm having trouble parsing what you're saying here. That I'm saying nothing or what?
Somewhat true, but all things considered, the US Empire is still far worse than any empire before it. There's hardly a comparison.
As for China - I guess we'll see soon enough. So far it's been thousands of times better on its road to world leader status than the US has ever been. Unless it radically changes course once the US is gone, it'll easily be a massive improvement.
And even if it does change course - it'll still most likely be an improvement, just not necessarily a massive one. Honestly, I'll be surprised if it ever comes close to the level of attrocities committed by the US.
the US Empire is still far worse than any empire before it. There's hardly a comparison.
Idk, there are a lot of western nations with a pretty long and brutal history. What criteria are we comparing?
I would say America is definitely the top dog in modern history, but it's a pretty young country to win the most brutal empire in all of history. I mean the Romans were around for nearly a thousand years and had a slave economy for pretty much all of it.
tbh population growth means the most modern empire will also be the most evil, simply as a matter of scale.
There are some historical outliers in history, particularly the colonization of the Americas. Collectively the English, Portuguese, and the Spanish empire are ultimately responsible for killing over 100 million people.
The expansion of the Mongol empire, especially in China and on their way to Baghdad killed around 40 million people, an estimated 11% of the global population.
So while America is the reigning champion in our time, I don't know if they really hold the title for worst in all of history. Hell even in ancient times the Romans were able to murder a million people in Gaul and enslave a million more.
Yes, because the US got to the top of the pile after most western nations were fully industrialized. We commit atrocities on a scale never before seen... because we have the capability to do so, not because we're uniquely evil. Do you really think the British wouldn't be doing the same shit we are if they'd been capable of it in the 18th century?
You make a good point here, and I hadn't thought about it that way. China is quite scary, and their dominance is certainly understated in my declaration of the US being the worst of them. I can see how my statement is exceptionalism. Despite the US having some unique cruelties, It is the authoritarian state in general having a monopoly on violent control that is the ultimate disaster.
All of Africa has been the target of so much cruelty, and china has a role in that. I am certain there are nightmares on the horizon.
How exactly is China "quite scary?"
Because it is an authoritarian state, and to be clear I'm more afraid of the US because of where I live. I just find any non-horizontally organized states that have a lot of power, especially authoritarian ones, to be scary in general.
All states are "authoritarian," in that all are monopolies on violence. The benefit of China is that the working classes control the state, so its authority is used in the interest of the people.
I feel like you have to have a pretty naive view of human history to get close to thinking thats true.
Christ, is that a real image? I think I'm just so horrified at the idea that I'd rather chalk it up to ai/trolling 😶
It's actually rather tame as far as pictures of Statesian war crimes go.
it’s real. so are some of the other images. the Us was in vietnam for profit and control, and entered via a lie and stayed longer than “needed” thanks to people like kissinger. fun fact: the US bombed Laos (with whom we were not at war) with more bombs than all nations in ww2 dropped, combined.
funner fact fact: the US has been a terrorist state since its inception, has only had profit in mind, and has never been free.
What i find interesting is the ability of some you to question and still have doubts about the ugliness and terrorism of the U.S army that you ignore the fact is that this picture is just a normal day activity of the most terrorist country in modern day history.
the most terrorist country in modern day history
Or just history. No need for the 'modern day' part.
In an age of unprecedented amounts and quality of propaganda i have no qualms about questioning an image for authenticity. I also have no problem seeing the ugliness or terrorism committed, i just think it's important to vet information more than ever these days. I fully believe they were doing what they did there, and the article was helpful in gaining perspective on the situation on the ground there. Absolutely abhorrent.
Of course you have the right to question anything these days on the internet, my rant was meant for the deniers and doubters.
the first subliminal response of the American mind will be to question this factual war crime because of of the counter propaganda image that was created by the us government & then fed to them from day 0 throughout their lifetime.
This propaganda is spoon fed in video games, tv ads, tv shows, movies, sport event, …etc
No, I think most Americans think more along the lines of "Yes, we committed atrocities in Vietnam, but it was an unfortunate consequence of war, which is never pretty." Some McCarthy-aligned Americans would follow that up with "To make an omelette (stop communism) you need to crack some eggs (kill civilians)."
Maybe worth pointing out here that being a communist country doesn't seem to have done Vietnam much harm.
What you said is exactly what dehumanizing means. And that last part is just pure evil since it justifies annihilating humans for propaganda.
McCarthy types generally think that communism is evil, and their utilitarians believe doing Little Evil to fight Big Evil is completely acceptable.
Well done on finding another source.
I have no idea what you're talking about for the rest of your post though. It seems perfectly reasonable to question the validity of a random picture on Twitter.
People are vicious and have been so for as long as we’ve been around. Your country does/did the same stuff, or would have if it could.
Human nature is malleable, and depends on the material conditions we find ourselves in. People are not inherently vicious, though we all have the capacity to be.
No, and if hypothetically your false assumption was correct and my country did something similar then i would distance myself from it
What country?
~~I cant seem to find anything about the image other than the twitter post, so I'm doubtful a about it for now~~
Looks like it is real
I know they did atrocious shit to the people there. I haven’t seen this photo before or even anything like it outside of a Hollywood film.
