Nothing makes them back off faster IME...
(midwest.social)
LadyButterfly she/her
WomensStuffThe phantom boyfriend might kick his ass. It's not respect, it is probably fear. Also they're seeking the path of least resistance. A lot easier to interview for a job opening than to try to interview for a job already filled. You do certainly see over-confident/desperate men try that tactic, but most predators are looking for an easy meal, not a competitor.
It’s a bit tough for me when a guy approaches out of the blue and I’m unavailable for whatever reason. Like, let’s say purposefully taking the adjacent seat and starts chatting. And you know where this is headed and you’re thinking “oh crap… How do I handle this so as to not waste his time but also not be rude and assuming.” So then I’ll often end up with a tedious but friendly conversation I don’t necessarily want, bc his intentions aren’t explicitly clear, so therefore I can’t explicitly decline. 😅
But yes, “I have a boyfriend” ends it fairly quick lol. It’s nice to just be able to say that when that’s the case.
Some guys are clever and ask something like “are you here with anyone?” To which you can say, yeah my boyfriend. I always appreciate that!! Because it saves everyone’s time and for me, the stress of figuring out how to best handle the conversation. 😆
And you know where this is headed and you’re thinking “oh crap… How do I handle this so as to not waste his time but also not be rude and assuming.”
I hate this part - having to sit through their introduction and attempt at flirting with me before I've said more than "Hi".
But yes, “I have a boyfriend” ends it fairly quick lol. It’s nice to just be able to say that when that’s the case.
Recently had a man in his mid-60s attempt to pick me up while I was watching my kid in their swim lesson. Luckily telling stories about my husband was enough to get him to fuck off. It's not always enough though.
It feels a bit of an accomplishment when you’re able to weave The Hubby into the conversation in a very natural way😆
Yeah I like to really gush to these types of men about how great he is, how supportive he is, how much I love him, and how often he likes to hit the gym hahahaha
What makes it even worse ist that "I have a girlfriend" never seems to have the same effect
There be assholes on both sides that's for sure
I think you misunderstood. I meant saying "I have a girlfriend" as a woman to a man hitting on you doesn't have the same effect as "I have a boyfriend" in the same situation.
But I see now my comment was rather vague. Mb
Ah ok my bad
A wise man once told me "Their partner, their problem." Anyway I'm now dating his wife.
"oH? wEll wHeRe Is hE?" has entered the chat.
Seriously don't know where men think they are going with this shit. Like they are entitled to a reasonable-in-their-eyes explanation as to why you won't immediately fall all over them. Just so gross.
I tried "I have a girlfriend and also you're 9 years older than me" and he was still annoying... :(
I wish it worked like that. The amount of times I’ve stated having a boyfriend just to be told, “He’s not here, so what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him” is disheartening.
I've always found this tricky ground to walk on.
You see a girl you're attracted to and you're single. You try some way to shoot your shot, get noticed, whatever, and try to make some sort of connection and it generally goes one of three ways.
- She's interested and it works.
- She's intrigued but act like she's not.
- She's not interested.
Regardless of which of the above is your scenario, if a girl immediately says, "I have a boyfriend," with no other response, then unfortunately you've fallen into that third category.
Surprisingly, I've fallen into that second category a few times when I thought she wasn't interested and then in speaking to them later, I was asked why didn't I try harder.
I've also fallen into that third category a bunch.
The original post is a valid point, but I think it's lacking context. Relationships and dating is messy.
Relationships and dating are messy, but i have a question for you:
Is it more important for you to signal that you are attracted to this woman you've never interacted with, or is it more important to just strike up a standard conversation and treat her like any stranger you meet?
In my experience as a woman, men often don't realize that they are very clearly signaling their sexual attraction/view of this woman as a romantic prospect, which doesn't seem like much of an issue except for the fact that you've never actually spoken to this woman.
Ergo, the woman is fully aware you are attracted to her and view her as a prospect purely because of how she looks -- this is objectification as you have no idea whether you are compatible.
You are far likely to get a positive response if you treat her like literally any other person and not a prospect. We don't like being objectified by strangers, but we don't mind making new friends. Save the romance for after the first conversation at the very least.
This is not me telling you youre doing anything wrong, but im pointing out something a lot of men do not even realize they are doing when they approach a woman. We can usually see men's intentions, they are not good at hiding them. Change your intentions from "i wanna date this woman" to "id like to see if this person is down for a conversation".
I’m a similar way. I think what you put out is what you attract, generally.
So if you’re being flirty and super forward with a stranger, the ones that bite probably aren’t thinking too far beyond looks and vibes either. Higher chance of it becoming a casual or short-term engagement.
I do 1000% agree with this.
So in general im not saying it never works to approach somebody telling them they're hot, but you really cannot fault a woman for not liking it because there are tons of valid reasons not to. Mostly I'm annoyed at guys who only do this and hate women for responding in a way they do not like, or claim women do not like them when they've literally never tried anything else and refuse to listen to women when they tell them how they want to be approached.
But fuck ya if you're a slutty man at a party and wanna put out flirty slut vibes to find a slutty woman, I'm sure you'll find one (hell, you'll likely get approached!). As long as everyone's being honest, yknow.
This comment sat weirdly with me for a minute. I am not saying you are incorrect. I just think there is some conceptual friction.
I think the issue is inserting "dating" in the path of "sexual attraction," and not just with your comment. Dating and sex are tied together in a way that rubs me the wrong way because it gatekeeps "sex" behind "relationship" in a way that isn't equally distributed, culturally. It doesn't freely offer the "one-night stand" to all genders. And I don't think you can cleanly say "all men are happy with one-night stands, and all women are against one-night stands."
You don't need to know what someone's favorite movie is to think they're hot. And you don't need to know whether they have any siblings to have sex with them. However, there does seem to be some expectation that men won't provide the necessary intimacy for good sex unless they're committed in a relationship. And it also assumes women are already primed and ready throw everything, emotionally, into a relationship at the drop of the pants.
The only things you need to have (good) sex with someone is: physical compatibility, so the bits interact in ways that feels good for all participants; and social compatibility, insofar as being able to smoothly communicate. All participants need to be able to view the other people as active contributors, to ask and accede to their boundaries and desires while also properly expressing their own.
I think the assumption/fear of "objectification" is valid. I'm aware you are a woman sharing a woman's perspective of "courtship," and I don't want to appear to or actually dismiss you out of hand. But I wonder how much of the reticence toward sexual openness is some residual patriarchal fear of being seen as "libertine."
This is a TL;DR that just came to me: "viewing someone as sexual is only objectification if the assumption is the person is being used for sex instead of having sex with them."
You make some really good points that are really good in conjunction with, but don't fully dispute my point.
I like that you point out that sexual attraction and a dating connection are different though not mutually exclusive. I also like that you brought up female sexual liberation and the assumption that most women don't want one night stands (they very often do!).
I guess I'll clarify my initial point. I think a lot of men grow up thinking women are very different from them, so they add all this extra pressure on themselves specifically on interactions with women, and women can generally tell. I guess what I'm truly trying to say here is that putting women you've never met on a pedestal (eg. She's so pretty, I have to tell her how beautiful I think she looks or use the perfect pickup line so this beautiful woman will go on a date with me) is just another form of objectification.
To give personal anecdotal context just so you can fully grasp the feeling im frustrated with: I'm weird. I'm fairly attractive and I do get approached, but i am fucking weird. I do not want a man who does not know me to approach me telling me how beautiful he thinks I am, expecting to get my number, because I know damn well that there's a high chance that if I give it to him, he will quickly realize how fucking weird I am and ghost me.
I don't mind if somebody says "hey I really like your band shirt/your shoes/your hat, etc." -- or my jacket with my patches on (always a great convo starter) -- always love when somebody likes a band i also like! But this means its an open conversation with no assumptions being made.
Basically, have a full conversation with me before you ask for my number, then we can see where this could go. I intentionally show my weird very quickly in conversation so people know what they are getting into.
So yeah, I don't think you're wrong, but I do think potential dating/sex/friendships can be approached all the same, unassuming way. People are people, and I don't wanna give my number to somebody I've never spoken to because he thinks I'm pretty. Please give me a better reason to continue interacting basically.
Basically, have a full conversation with me before you ask for my number, then we can see where this could go.
This, I fully agree with. I wasn't seeing the situation where someone sees you and says "give me your phone number" because that seems insane to me. Yeah, some positive conversation should happen before people go around demanding semi-permanent means of contact. Beyond niceties, that's just unsafe with the unfortunate likelihood of some psycho digging into your socials.
Right?! It is absolutely insane, but so many guys will do that. There are so many things guys do that other guys don't believe because they're fuckin insane things to do lol
edit: woops, didn't realize the sub I was on.
Edit: i see you edited your comment, but ill leave mine as-is because it could be useful to somebody
I actually talk to strangers super often lol. I really like metal music so, for example: I saw a guy at my gym with a Cannibal Corpse tshirt and I just said "hey man, by the way, I really like your shirt", and now we say hi when we see each other.
I have another male friend at the gym who literally approached me and said "wow, you lift heavy" (note that you can absolutely say this to a man, this is not a gender specific comment) - I enjoyed that interaction, it was honestly great and made me feel good because it was clear that I was working hard and it was a recognition of that work. It felt like respect.
I talk to strangers at concerts A LOT, especially when out for a smoke (great place to meet new people, you don't even have to smoke). It's important to have an end to the convo built into your greeting, because you can gauge pretty easily whether somebody wants to continue talking based on their response. If you have these little interactions frequently enough, people that share public spaces with you will just start to recognize you.
Idk I've been doing this forever and I didn't think it was that foreign a concept to people. Maybe it depends on where you're from.
I vet what you are saying, but also if you are out looking for a relationship, you are kind of looking for physical, mental, and emotional compatability.
Telling someone "I think you are hot" is not necesarily objectifying them. It may just be saying "There are three hurdles here (maybe more) and this one here, that is a foot tall that is extremely easy to step over, has been stepped."
Suggesting its always objectifying eliminates the prospect that they are just trying to get to the next, much harder hurdles.
Hey! I just responded to another comment that qarbone made and I think it adequately covers a lot of this stuff too.
I'm very much not trying to say it's always intended to be objectifying, but that it feels objectifying when somebody leads with that, because people are more than that. And if you are trying to strike up a conversation with a woman, considering how something feels to her, regardless of your intention, is important because it will dictate her response.
To me, a man I've never met approaching me saying "I think you are hot" reads to me like "I saw you and I covet you, and I don't care much about your substance."
You are allowed to think a woman is hot, but perhaps don't lead with it because it signals that is the only reason why you are talking to her, regardless of if that is true or not.
Women are often very intentional with their fashion, so a tried and true way of striking up a convo in an unassuming way is to comment/compliment on a choice they made
Example: "I really like your shirt/bag/shoes/jacket, etc., it looks really cool!/goes really well with your outfit!" (Make note of the adjectives. Do not call a stranger hot/sexy/etc. In the first sentence - that puts unneeded pressure on the interaction because we do not know what kind of guy you are - keep the compliment neutral, like how you'd compliment a guy)
It's important to note that your intentions do not matter if they do not match your perceived intentions.
You are far likely to get a positive response if you treat her like literally any other person and not a prospect.
Not if your general treatment of strangers doesn't involve talking to them.
My point is treat women like you're trying to make a friend, not like a person you are trying to date because you don't know enough about them as a person to even know if there will be a connection.
If you'd approach people you don't know for dates but not friendship, that's your own problem and maybe something to work on.
Women don't want to be liked for how they look, they want to be liked for who they are.
She's intrigued but act like she's not.
In which case I'm immediately not interested anymore
Strange take. Just because she is not immediately interested you give up? Sounds like you don't like woman with standards.
...I think the issue is in pretending she is not interested. What part of feigning disinterest indicates "standards"?
Is a woman some kind of loose trollop because she admits to some initial attraction?
Is a woman some kind of loose trollop because she admits to some initial attraction?
Society very often conditions women to feel like they are sluts if they act too interested.
Could be that she sees potential but needs more interaction to determine if what she sees is real or a play. Many men put on airs and then drop them after a time. Could be she has many things going on and needs to cull the attention for a time. Could be she has been told by mentors that being too interested is perceived as easy or slutty. Many, many reasons to be attracted and act like you're not. Sometimes flirting involves a back and forth. No means no but thats not what the second category is talking about. Thats the third.
No means no, but some people are scared to say "no" because others don't react well to "no." So they deflect when they mean "no."
Then the reasonable suitor, aware of the broader context, has to assume anything but a "yes" is a "no", or else risk contributing to the problem.
Just because she is not immediately interested
Uhhh, did you just make up a fourth option and pretend I replied to that instead of the one I actually quoted?
It's right there, you know. Just centimeters above your very offended reply.
Also, as a woman, my experience with other women generally comes down to "ah, I'm not into women, sorry". Granted, I've been married for a decade now, so eh
No, i didn't make up a fourth option. You just don't seem to grasp how flirting works.
You're property to them and they are not thieves. Saying you have a boyfriend signals you already are "owned". It's a disgusting attitude.
The trick is to be at least forty and trans. All the cis guys have their eyes laser-locked in front of them, never wavering.
Still working on the open glares from middle-aged cis women, but I’m still largely invisible.
For this one I wear a ring that makes it look like I'm married.
