Sure, I know a lot of projects have been on GH since before MS bought it, but they've owned it for quite a while now, so we really should be seeing better migration out by now, no?

Codeberg is nonprofit which seems more in the spirit of the Linux ecosystem overall. GH is for-profit...

It's really for the copilot integration. ,/s

GitHub has been around for nearly 2 decades and was largely considered a mostly good thing until maybe the past couple of years. Also important to add that Microsoft seems to mostly have left it alone for the first couple of years (possibly with the exception of Atom, which it left very alone)

In addition to people just generally being slow to change, changing can take quite a bit of effort for some projects for varying reasons. Many of those same projects struggle to keep up with the maintenance workload, so they're not going to jump at the chance to add more work to their plates.

Finally, some people just don't care. For instance, the MIT license being popular is pretty hard evidence that FOSS doesn't necessarily mean anti-corporate, and for many users GitHub still more or less does what it says on the tin.

Though I will say if the service disruptions and ad-injection bullshit continue you'll only see GitHub competitors grow. GitLab seems to be going after their enterprise customers with some success.

For instance, the MIT license being popular is pretty hard evidence that FOSS doesn’t necessarily mean anti-corporate, and for many users GitHub still more or less does what it says on the tin.

I'm pretty sure that MIT license is that popular out of ignorance, instead of an informed decision to allow corporate to steal and make money out of their code.

I'd like to think that is so but some here will argue non-copyleft licenses are "more free". Ime they don't reply after I point out that's the freedom to deny others freedom.

Serious answer: technical inertia and legacy reasons and most people don’t want to bother migrating established projects.

You seem to think that the idea is that linux and most FOSS projects are some carebear nonprofit charity organization. You are wrong.

In most cases the idea is that open source work is there because it is easier to share technological progress if multiple companies work at it. And because of this it is just better than the alternative. The linux kernel is worked on by multiple large corporations that are in the business of making money using servers. If these servers run better then they make more money. To make them run better for them they need to implement their features and because of the licence and the ecosystem they need to publish these modifications back to the upstream.

All this works so good because a lot of companies make a lot of money with it.

Github will be used as long as it does not interfere with the workflow or with the legal aspects, nobody cares about the spirit nearly as much as you think

Fair, but what about the Copilot-pockmarking? And they're always one step away from a paywall... Why wait until it gets that bad versus at least duplicating elsewhere now?

Worth noting that the Linux source is updated and collaborated with via email, not GitHub. The Linux repo on GitHub is a read-only mirror.

Plenty of companies are quite happy to pay for github licenses

Why wait until it gets that bad versus at least duplicating elsewhere now?

so why aren't you volunteering your time and effort to help at least one project migrate, instead of just complaining they haven't?

I believe the core reason is that, when MS bought it, and while they make it worse day by day, the number of projects in Github was already huge and it just keeps growing. That being said, it is still the main platform to find FOSS projects, and to have your project be found.

A lot of people are migrating though. The good thing about the FOSS community and philosophy is that they don't really need to rely on shitty companies like Microsoft. They can (and many actually do) just move on, at least regarding their own personal projects.

Yep. For example, Gnome migrated to Gitlab some time ago. Obviously it's not as ethical as Codeberg, but maybe it offers certain features that Codeberg doesn't (yet) have that they require. PikaOS is (was?) on Gitea.

For my part, I've left Github and will only do development on Codeberg. I'll still make pull requests to upstream projects that only exist on Github, but I have no control where those parent projects are hosted, and improving those projects is still a net benefit to everyone.

people have tried.

people predicted the enshittification of GitHub as soon as the acquisition was announced, as you can imagine. now, picture yourself as a dev in that month where a small vocal userbase is reading tea leaves based on Microsoft’s past behavior telling you to move your project, where the best outcome is nothing changes, to a new platform. you have a hundred issues and a dozen PRs in review, and those won’t stop coming in while you are migrating. now you need to mirror your project on GitHub, unless you want to immediately fade into obscurity, because while you’re spending your valuable time making sure everything is setup as it was but now on GitLab (the only realistic alt at the time), issues and PRs are still coming in, and you have to keep your releases updated in GitHub for a while during the migration. you also need to figure out CI/CD on your new platform.

so the ideal—that you can migrate and nothing changes—is a pipe dream. your packaging is now likely totally different; you’re now that snowflake project in the config where i had to figure out how to point to something other than GitHub and waste 30min questioning whether i need your tool at all. you still continue to get PRs and issues through GitHub because of course they didn’t read the README. and there’s tiny friction everywhere. the UI is different, how OAuth is handled is different, the plug and play you got from GitHub Actions is gone, etc etc.

meanwhile for 6 years things are chugging along fine at GitHub: Actions is getting better, Treesitter support, better UI for PRs.

it’s the AI stuff that’s ruining GitHub no doubt. not the AI itself but the culture around it with the “what is our team doing with AI?” nonsense corporate policy. it’s all happened really quickly, and isn’t the “boiled frog” scenario at all really.

Linux was around before GitHub, and wherever we end up as long as we still have our Unix tools like git it’ll be fine.

ideals are great. the perfect is the enemy of the good

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

Microsoft embraced github by buying it. They extended the features and ease of use to where it's the primary website people use for sharing and collaborating on code. Now it extinguishes any alternative.

It already was the primary code sharing place though... that's why they bought it.

Embrace extend extinguish is a well known pattern microslop uses to kill open source alternatives. You're right it was already big which is why they embraced it (we're both agreeing here) all I'm saying is they make sure it's impossible to develop an alternative due to network effects and vendor default lock in. "Embrace extend extinguish" is From their own internal communications found during discovery.

Github was around for a long time before MS bought it.

Like many other social media sites it's partially network effects.

Inertia. And GitHub was actually good, despite MS ownership. Until recently.

It really is quite amazing how fast its gone completely to shit. The site is so fucking slow so much of the time. I've started moving my projects one-by-one to a Forgejo instance I control, the main hurdle is just updating actions workflows to work there.

In hindsight the period 2015-2022 was a kind of a golden age for Microsoft.
They actually made (well, acquired) some good software, and even not-so-good stuff like Azure had a point of existing.

Of course it all went downhill very quickly.

Open Source projects get lots of free features for being on GitHub. Nobody else is beating that offering at current.

What are those free features? Why doesn't Codeberg have it?

Because running servers costs money. The project I work on gets donations towards it's CI costs and it's not insignificant.

Free github actions

Arguably the biggest contributor to the Linux ecosystem is Red Hat, a for-profit company that offers its technologies to the Israeli military among other things. The biggest contributor to the Linux kernel is Red Har, while the second biggest is Meta. The Linux ecosystem is not inherently nonprofit!

Why do you make the argument that Red Hat is the biggest contributor?

Searching Linux contributor breakdown by organization puts them tied for 3rd at ~7%.

https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/korg/contributors?timeRange=past365days&start=2025-06-19&end=2026-06-19

https://commandlinux.com/statistics/linux-kernel-contributors-lines-of-code-statistics/

Don't get me wrong. Intel leading the corporate contributions is worse. lol

In the first link, look at the parameters in the link. It is for last 365 days. If you take all time, it is Red Hat.

To be explicit: I don't like Red Hat.

Wow I went to fact check that claim and it's actually no exaggeration. Here is the AP article.

Google and Amazon provide cloud computing and AI services to the Israeli military under “Project Nimbus,” a $1.2 billion contract signed in 2021, when Israel first tested out its in-house AI-powered targeting systems. The IDF has used Cisco and Dell server farms or data centers. Red Hat, an independent IBM subsidiary, also has provided cloud computing technologies to the Israeli military, while Palantir Technologies, a Microsoft partner in U.S. defense contracts, has a “strategic partnership” providing AI systems to help Israel’s war efforts.

Crazy to see Palantir, Google, Microsoft mentioned alongside ...Red Hat.

If it helps to explain it, Red Hat is owned by IBM.

No love lost for IBM but I still wouldn't expect to see casually mentioned alongside Palantir.

Oh... shoot... TIL, thanks!

It was independent (not under Microsoft) until late 2018, and moving is hard. Even after MS bought it, they tried to keep it independent. It's really only been the last few years where it's gone downhill.

It's also kinda the defacto standard for git hosting due to being a solid early player in the space. I assume that view will change as Codeberg and other rivals get more ingrained in the open source stack.

I don't move mine because of the hard limits at 100 repos and 100 MB of private storage. I wouldn't mind paying to have more, but that's not an option.

edit: it seems one can request limit increases, but I have no idea what's their approval criteria.

It's hopefully common knowledge, but just in case, Codeberg is running Forgejo. You can host a compatible instance yourself! It's not that painful.

just installed a forgejo instance on a locally hosted lxc instance on a spare qemu VM. will use primarily for my own projects and external devs who collaborate on client projects.

doing my part to give an nvidia sized "torvalds" to ms.

I know, but the main use i have for github is collaboration, and I don't want to expose a forgejo instance I'm hosting myself.

many were there first, long before microsoft bought the site. but now? yea. why tf are people still using it.

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