Demand Is Booming for New No Tech, Repairable Tractor
(www.404media.co)
ExtremeDullard
Right to Repair"There is consumer pressure to back away from technology that is unnecessary to perform everyday tasks."
honstly it seems like it's a pretty fucking low bar to make a low-tech vehicle. The designs and plans have been around for a REALLY long time.
It's mostly issues with legislation and efficiency and billionaire companies trying to stop it.
Check out https://www.opensourceecology.org/
All sorts of important agricultural and industrial tools open sourced for rural/impoverished areas.
The reason computers originally became popular in cars was to help with fuel efficiency. So it could figure out the proper fuel-to-air mixture and engine timing on-the-fly. Everything else could be done through physical wires, switches, and electric servos.
The problem is manufacturing and repairing all those wires, switches, and servos becomes cumbersome. So manufacturers moved to modular pods that could be plugged together via bus harnesses. That way, you can pop out a malfunctioning box and be back up, instead of requiring the corner mechanic to become an automotive engineer.
The problems started when each of those boxes were made to be closed and proprietary, requiring custom integration and tools. The vehicle makers became systems integrators, wanting to lock out competitors by forcing all repairs to go through their dealer network and using their expensive parts.
If someone figures out how to get all the benefits of modularization without all the negatives of vendor lock-in, and throw out the pointless telemetry collection, that would be a great place to start.
Yeah. Open Source comouter-controlled equipment would be the ideal solution. If the computer fucks up, you can replace it for 50 bucks and flash it from a USB drive.
And tractors have a great history of open-source modding. The PTO and 3-point hitch are gold standards of open standards.
Oh! Oh! Now do cars!
I wish. Instead, the EU releases continously new regulations which makes cars, especially small ones, prohibitively expensive, all in the name of safety. Cheap simple cars are a thing of the past, all new cars are stuffed with unnecessary but mandatory tech just so car manufacturers can make a higher profit.
perceived safety
they're pushing LED headlights that are clearly dangerously blinding. like has nobody ever heard of a hill before jfc
I wonder if someone sat down and really looked at the legistation and the engineering, if we couldn't get away with cheaper solutions. Cars have something like a dozen purpose built computers now, can't we just replace all that bs with a standard piece of hardware? Lane tracking, eye tracking, it's like everything they do is bespoke.
That sounds a bit like the U.S. regulations requiring sealed-beam headlights, where manufacturers had to choose between a handful of allowed designs. That way, the govt was sure that all headlights were up to safety spec.
It's a good idea, and could help prevent things like the VW emissions cheating scandal.
I really think there should be a middle zone between the quadricycle regulation (like the Citroen Ami, Renault Twizy, etc) and “normal” cars. Make a class for simple and cheap cars that are more capable than the quadricycles, but still have some conservative power and/or speed limits, size limits, and some safety standards.
I’m imagining a class of vehicles that are like a modern take on the post-war economy cars like the Fiat 500, Citroen 2cv, VW beetle, etc. Something similar to the Japanese kei cars, but probably even more restrictive on power.
Make it a centre-articulating tractor no more than 2m wide, with 1.2m tall tires, min. 40-50Hp, and I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Look up the Holder AG35 or the A60 as an example. Fiendishly difficult to find outside of Europe, which is the problem.
I believe that these approaches to technology stem from having too little competition in any given space. Companies can only sell products with unpopular features when a) the product remains necessary and b) there are no real alternatives which don't also have the anti-feature (or, the anti-feature is not seen as enough to deter against buying the thing).
It's not just tractors: feels like every piece of tech now has a bunch of shit you don't want (and even some that harms you), all in a disposable, unrepairable package that costs more than older tech. That older product was often just as good if not better than the newer one.
Good to hear that there is a domestic option but Mahindra, of India, and Kioti, of South Korea, have been making owner repairable tractors for years.
Does Kioti actually have a reputation for reparability? Have been trying to find a small tractor lately
Kubota is probably the best price-to-value ratio in the small tractor market. Parts are much easier to get than some of these Chinese/Indian brands, and you will need to fix it, that's the nature of a tractor.
I have been trying to find a small Kubota from before diesel emissions got really cumbersome, but I am far from any population centers so there aren't a lot of options on the used market. Trying for a Kubota or old Ford maybe
Mahindra and Kioti have both service manuals and parts available. I've seen some people online complain about issues with specific dealers and having to wait for some parts to be shipped from overseas but that isn't specific to those brands. I've never owned either one so YMMV.
I love my 2001 tractor. No computer, no bullshit, just a diesel engine, transmission and a hydraulic pump.
I'm not a farmer, but I keep my old car in good condition for the exact same reason.
If I could buy a brand new 1994 Toyota Camry, I would be sooooo happy.
If it still had a base MSRP of US$16428 or full-tits MSRP of US$23978...even better.
We had an excellently maintained late datsun z. Of course my idiot brother burns out the transmission doing idiot things in the late 90s and that totals her. Our mechanic bought it from us and i still see her around town.
I should've just learned how to fix the damn thing myself, but they do have some nice safety features (like the "hey, someone is in your blind spot, dipshit" light so i can tell at a glance they're in my blind spot instead of having to turn and stare them down). i really need to finish learning how to weld and solder and i bet i could just build that damn car out of a kit.
Heh when I was a teenager my dad bought a Datsun 260Z as a project car. It was a rusted out shell of a chassis/squirrel den and drivetrain when we got it.
I remember taking turns trying to unstick the crankshaft, by hand with a bigass breaker-bar with the head loaded up with MMO. And the feeling of success when red goo shot out the cylinders like a satanic bukkake scene when we finally got it unstuck.
We ended up getting it road-worthy, though I don't think he ever let me drive it. I was too tall to really drive it comfortably anyway, especially once he put the RSX seats in. Still, I learned a lot about cars and French while we worked on it.
Because it's your dad I'm assuming French language and not French kissing because ew.
Also i am a few ~~frescas~~ decades deep but I think ours was a 280z. Think. It was the car dad wanted to use to pick up chicks but only the coquerelles were interested
Does it not have an HPCR and ECU? Or is it still all mechanical?
It has some fuses and a couple of relays. Even the fuel pump is mechanical.
I just think we're going to see this in cars and appliances soon. People might be hitting their limit on bullshit tech in commodities.
No I don't need blutooth and wifi in my dishwasher.
But how will you know your dishes are done? Walk over there and open it like some caveman?! /s
Surely repairable doesn't mean no tech, just open tech. I'm sure there is tech features that are worth having. It's the vendor lockin and enshitification that isn't.
so the squeezening of tech into vehicles seemed to happen at right the same time engine compartments stopped having enough room to change the headlights without having to bust out a cherry picker. at least from the "i can fix a carburetor but maybe not a self parking system why does my grain thresher have one of those anyways" perspective over here.
In a decade or two, they will be electric and there won't be a carburetor. It will all be more like that parking system. The moment software comes in, much easier to lock people in. That needs to not be the case. It's always made out that somehow working on software of these things is dangerous, but somehow working on a mechanical machine of controlled explosions of flammable liquid is not. Most people are just going to flash on firmware someone else did.
The moment software comes in, much easier to lock people in.
i'm almost with you (and i get the point you're making) but my little shitbox from the 80s that i love, she had a tiny computer under the seat. i think it managed the lights and emission system or something.
So the only reason they can build this and not have to conform to pollution laws is because they're using remanned Cummins 12v engines. There's a limited number of those in any case. As soon as they have to conform with new engines, they're going to get a lot more expensive.
Caterpiller stopped providing truck engines for a decade rather than R&D a compliant motor. That was the second largest truck engine manufacturer in the world, decided it was too expensive to bother, which tells you how much these engines cost new.
I love the idea of this tractor, but it's not going to survive the economy of scale intact.
What regulations must they conform to with newly-manufactured engines? Emmissions? Safety?
Are ag equipment regulations so strict that they can't manufacture new "old-school" engines?
Serious question as I am not a farmer. Not anymore at least. Not since my horse died. RIP, Mr. Sugarhooves.
NO2 emissions standards in US and Canada now pretty much require DEF systems, which is a huge added cost, as well as other design changes that are required to make DEF work. And yes, ag got an exception for a bunch of years, but the regulation is now catching up on new machines. Most equipment has doubled in price in the last 5 years or so from all manufacturers, in large part due to new engine requirements. A tractor you could have bought new for $200k is now north of $400k and don't get me started on combines.
Thanks for explaining that. Sounds like I'm going to have to buy a milling machine and carve out my own engine blocks.
That is all anyone ever asked for. Farmers are not the kind to throw their hands up and call support to help fix and modify their own shit.
Also a big issue was not that they had to get support or help, but that there are time critical points of the year such as harvest that you need your machine running literally every hour of the day and even though they could easily physically fix or replace a part themselves the machine would lock out until a certified technician came out to plug their laptop in a certify genuine parts are used or fixes have been made.
Then the local certified repairman wasnt able to attend the service call for days and that was just not acceptable when an entire years income would be impacted by the speed they could harvest before potential damages which would affect profit margins.
So its not just the frustration of being locked out but the lack of sufficient manufacturer support.
I've got my grandfathers Massey Ferguson 135. The only thing I've had to do is replace the seals. The manual explains exactly how to do it and a few youtube videos and I was good.
Already exists and has existed for years.
https://www.opensourceecology.org/gvcs/
i'm not familiar with these dudes but from these photos it looks like plans to build your own tractor out of parts from the hardware store (if you buy an engine from OSE of course) and this is the base frame that you can then add the accessories to and make it the tractor you need. i mean all i am seeing is tractor frame, no tractor body.
But look at all the Prdecessors it has!
Right, but this is a new company building a tractor like “the good ole days” and surprise surprise, lots of demand
While I am a fan of open source, being able to buy a product is a different thing
