Social Democracycross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/40375880
My take is that socialist ideals are great. But socialism is infeasible, and thats why all atempts ended in failure and authoritarism.
People aren't scared of the "ideals", they are sacred of:
- slipping into authoritarianim
- a bloody revolution
- economic decline because of a bogus economic system.
(Im a social democrat, hell yeah to everything in the post, but inside capitalism, because it at least survived for more than 80 years once).
Which of those 3 points are we avoiding right now with capitalism?
Oh, thats right, just the "revolution" part. Not even the "bloody" part. More people have been killed by capitalism than every political revolution in history combined
Absolutely. Capitalism may not be ideal, but it's our only hope to avoid authoritarian bloodshed, economic decline, and insane bigoted purges of the population.
Capitalism may be exploitative, but it never caused a genocide. Never caused anybody hard working to go hungry, die of preventable illness, live outdoors when housing exists, or get murdered by death squads. Unlike communism.
I think there's a lot of people who are just really arrogant and can't imagine needing that help until they need it.
Those people always had help but you see they deserves it /s
I genuinely believe most people are so beat down they think these things are impossible
Think about how you have to contort yourself to think positive thoughts about any of that. Its emotional and existential suicide.
And we've got too much history of progressive stuff passing, but taking it's sweet time trickling down to where it's needed. Like, I used to do palliative care for the developmentally disabled, through an agency that only took low-income clients on Medicare. Because we took federal money, our wages were set by the state.
The minimum wage went up, but they failed to pass an equivalent expenditure bill that would have raised our wages. A bunch of people quit, because we were suddenly making less than you can get at McDonalds, and I wound up working 60hr weeks doing care for dying autistic people with dementia, before I burnt out and drove into traffic. It took several years for the expenditure bill to pass with a wage increase, and it still pays less than menial labor positions.
They say the rising tide lifts all boats, but in reality, the government can just decide that your boat shouldn't be lifted, and you drown instead.
I think because they're all made to believe people only want to take advantage of them.
Most of the people against it are people who have been lucky most of their life. They were born into money, they were able to get a good education, they have always been able to get a good paying job, their hard work paid off, all that stuff. They never had any trouble so believe nobody should get the help they don't need themselves.
Idk about that; for example, most Republicans are barely highschool grads, statistically the poorest people in America. I think if you track reactionary sentiment in general it is most prevalent in the lowest socioeconomic brackets worldwide. True, the propagators of reactionary ideologies are people of means, but, in a capitalist system with capitalist media, the most effective propagators of ANY ideology are people of means. Sure, those ideologies are always going to be skewed in the class interests of the owning class, but, all I'm saying is we need to be more open to calling class traitors out as the dumbfucks they are.
I understand your point. I didn't include the brainwashed sheep because I don't consider them to even understand what they hate. However, in my socialist country the socialist party leaders are mostly middle class people. I actually even vote for a party that has people that worked the floor in supermarkets and warehouses. It's extremely clear that in my country the middle class runs the left and the upper class runs the right. (And of course the right gained their following because of "immigrants" and passive racism.)
No one is afraid, cut the bullshit you morons.
Politicians invent narratives that prevent us from having these: immigrants, lgbtq guys/rights, climate change, not enough/too many taxes, gun control, china winning ai race, literally any war, threat of war.
And then let us fight each other over it.
::: spoiler Literally what's going on in your head oh but climate change is real, why are you flagging this. To what I want to reply: yes it is real and I hate you too :::
No one is afraid
You're giving people way too much credit.
Some people are just always hateful and afraid someone will do what they did to others.
The political spectrum is actually kind of diverse on this. I've argued with right wing irl with opposition ranging from "without some people being in poverty we can't properly reward hard work" to "poverty is divine punishment for sins, iresponibilty, and wickedness" to "Id love that, but we can't afford it because [fake narratives]".
I say this as someone who also has to argue with people that people may need to work harder or longer because we aren't in a healthy state of the economy and that may include cutting back for some of the "middle class". Yeah, we need fair taxes and we have to deal with the wealth gap too of course. That would help A LOT but I don't think it'll solve everything
Even in Australia- we have 'universal healthcare'
Except, if you need to see a doctor it's $80-$200 and you later get refunded, but if you don't have the money today, it's OK Afterpay saves the day!
Oh, but you need dental care? We we don't care! Unless you're an actual baby boomer or a junkie, you don't get dental care, it's $500 for a checkup, but Afterpay is public health now, big ups!
You're feeling real shit, mind full of fuck, you think a therapist can help - For an hour, eight hundred bucks.
Never let the neolibs in.
As an American I fucking wish any doctors visit was that cheap. Even with insurance it feels like they take me for $500+.
Oh no no no, see, they pay for the doctor, that is just $35. However, the lab work that is contracted out isn't covered, that's gonna be $300. Also, the nurse is a travel nurse from an agency based on Michigan, so they are definitely out of network for your plan, that'll be another $150. There is also a bill processing fee to figure out how much to charge you, but that's only another $35. We also charge a payment process fee, so add another $15 for having the privilege of paying us.
This is why I only get check on if I absolutely have to after I got kicked off my parent’s insurance. Only recently been to the doctor’s due to worker’s comp because I was injured on the job.
It's definately levels of bullshit and I feel for you.
They do not understad what "society" is. They see the world as a vast sea of disconnected people. No unity or understanding, and that is not an accident.
Believe me, the billionaires are unified in fostering the agenda that put their version of "society" on top and in complete power.
The issue then is getting that vast disconnected sea of people to see the game the top .01% are playing, and quit following their rules.
Check out the 2006 interview with Ben Stein and Warren Buffett in the NY Times and pay mind, that this was 20 years ago.. https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html
People need to be awakened..
So... It all started with rugged individualism when the west was still "unconquered" and now here we are. I've met a person that when talking about taxing the rich, replied unironically "what if I get rich?" To which I just had absolutely no reply. He's close to retirement and too kind a person to exploit folks sociopathically. I really can't fully understand how people get to this place where they defend their oppressors. It's like some kind of Stockholm syndrome.
Exactly, they're not scare of universal healthcare, they're scared of losing their once a year vacation where they get to feel rich for one week a year. They literally work all year to feel rich for a week and that's more important than healthcare or anything else in their lives.
This guy is literally the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" type. The dude is my peer, and there's not a snowball's chance he'll ever be that wealthy, or that I will.
