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PrivacyI feel like this is a hack that is rarely talked about. And it's the most reliable method I've found for getting an email account that I can use for signing up to other websites.
Imagine you want to create a completely anonymous account on some website. Most websites require an email account to sign up. if you're lucky you can use one of those a temporary email services, but many websites block those nowadays. They only accept trusted email providers like Gmail, Protonmail, etc. And trying to make an anonymous account on those providers is difficult. Even Protonmail, surprisingly. If you try to sign up for Protonmail using a VPN or Tor, they will ask for a phone number or a second email account. So now you have to get a phone number anonymously (very difficult), or get another email account anonymously, back to square one.
Darknet markets solve this problem. Pay a bit of Monero, and you get an account. Completely anonymous. Now I won't pretend it's easy. Even just signing up for a darknet market often requires learning how to PGP encrypt/decrypt messages. But it only takes an 30 min or so to figure it out and sign up, and it opens up a new world of tools to use for privacy. There are many other types of accounts that you can buy aside from Protonmail, and many other products in general that you can buy.
I don't get why Protonmail doesn't just accept anonymous crypto as an option during signup, but until they do this is honestly the most reliable option I've found. I really wish more websites just accepted crypto for account creation. It's understandable that in order to prevent spam accounts, account creation has to cost something, and crypto allows it to cost something without costing your privacy.
Anyways, here's a quick guide to get started. I'll avoid direct links since I don't know if those are allowed.
- install Tor Browser Bundle, and use it for the following steps
- search for websites like Daunt, Dread forums, and Tor Taxi. Darknet markets change all the time so use those websites to figure out which ones are currently active. Cross-check links across multiple websites to make sure they are trustworthy, since often scam websites will try to pose as legitimate ones
- look for markets that let you search for the product you're interested in before signing up, to save you time
- some markets require you to load funds into the market and then pay using those funds. Avoid loading more than you need, since some markets have "rugpulled" before (aka taken everybody's funds and disappeared. This is the risk of an anonymous market).
Edit: also if for some reason a seller doesn't accept Monero, you can use a crypto swap. Basically you send the swap service some Monero, tell them what crypto to convert it to (like Bitcoin or Ethereum), and where to send it to. Many can be used anonymously, without signup
you're doing the divine's work; thank you for this!
get your old android phone, no phone # needed. install lineageos + gapps. go to some public wifi spot. register a fresh gmail account. jot the login down somewhere. reset/wipe your phone. you're done.
I'd rather stop communicating altogether than do anything that involves interacting with shitcoins in any shape or form.
this doesn't work these days, google requires your phone number during signup even on android google app. also if you're using 'your' old android phone the IMEI is probably already tied as being owned by you..
I don't think that's correct as I've registered a fresh account as described, during the setup phase of a phone, within the last month and no phone number was needed. I'll give you the benefit of doubt as I don't want to do that again just to disprove a stranger on the internet, but if anything changed it had to change in this very, very recent period.
edit: the posit of OP was to open an account in order to be able to register to other accounts, not go jasonbourne on 5eyes and friends.
google's system is not simple, they have a very opaque process that determines whether the user's environment is "trustworthy" and asks for more information as needed.
it's still possible to create a new google account without explicitly tying a phone number in some cases, but it hasn't worked reliably for a very long time now.
until about 2023 creating it on an android <= 4.4 (kitkat) worked 100%, but now that also doesn't work.
Google wants all your infos, no way around that
Why all that version over using the public access computers of your local library?
I ain't got none of those and this is/was the only way you can open a gmail account without a phone number; as posited in OP, this is to be used only to register to stuff, not use it as a comms medium.
Using a nearby public wifi spot, means that the email provider has your approximate location. If the feds get involved, then combined with security camera footage they can likely track you down.
Monero provides a way for people to pay for things anonymously, and is a lot more convenient then trying to pay with cash anonymously. For some people, their privacy is more important than whatever qualms they may have against crypto. Clearly you are not one of those people, and that's fine
A much easier and safer way to generate an anonymous email if you live in the EU is to use Posteo.
After you create an account, you get an account code. You can pay by mail with account info on a piece of paper. €1/month. Mail off some Euro, no returned address required.
Posteo accepts other currencies as well, though obviously mailing cash internationally takes longer.
Very cool I did not know this. Do they ever plan to support Monero? Physical payment methods are still unideal because security cameras can track you.
Track you where? Post it at a post office or drop point with gloves a cap if you want to feel like a badass, dont put a return address on it. How would anyone know by the time it gets to the legitimate company selling a very normal product where it came from to even check cameras?
There's too many unknowns for me to feel comfortable with it. Paper bills have identifiers so you have to make sure you got them anonymously, or launder them anonymously. Use gloves for everything. Mask your face without looking too suspicious. Hope that the post system doesn't secretly scan letter contents. Hope that the government isn't already tracking the movements of all citizens using cameras. Etc
Often the camera footage is enough. I've seen enough cases where police track down criminals via security camera footage, to know how effective it can be.
It's pseudonymous, not anonymous.
See: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/sme-data-protection-guide/faq-frequently-asked-questions/answer/what-difference-between_en
Monero is completely anonymous
The email accounts aren't
you can use certain temp mail providers for protons secondary email verification, money involvement makes it more insecure
I've never found one that worked, which ones do you use?
https://temp-mail.org/es/
I'm fairly sure Protonmail does not accept this one for the secondary email check they use during signup
Not sure about proton mail but it works for reddit throwaways to get the verification code
that's good to know! I haven't made reddit throwaways in a long time so it's nice to know that anonymous methods still work
this legit feels illegal/criminal. aren't those accounts stolen or made through identity theft?
Not necessarily. Protonmail will happily let you create an account if you don't use a VPN or Tor. Such accounts are tied to your IP, so you can't create too many of them, which is all Protonmail cares about, since spam accounts reduce the trustworthiness of their email service. I really doubt sellers are going through efforts to steal accounts, if they can just make them for free at a coffee shop.
Darknet markets create a system where people can create accounts non-anonymously, and convert them into anonymous accounts by selling them to others. I wish this were more common. For example I'd love to be able to pay for an anonymous Youtube Premium account
Not necessarily. Protonmail will happily let you create an account if you don't use a VPN or Tor. Such accounts are tied to your IP
Can't you just go somewhere that has public wifi and set up a Proton account from there? No VPN and they dont have your IP.
Could work in some cases, though if the feds were trying to track you down they'd have approximate location + surveillance camera footage to work from. As I said in other comments, the posted method works for extreme threat profiles
But they have a rough idea about where you come from
people can create accounts non-anonymously, and convert them into anonymous accounts by selling them to others
yes so that's the part where identity theft is used
So, I undetood what you were saying. It's weird how few others did. You have no way of knowing whether these were created by the person selling them (doubtful) or they used someone else's identity without their permission.
yeah this.. you can't know for sure the person selling you the account is the one who made the account, or the one who provided the personal information to create that account.
i highly doubt there are many people who even know where to sell their own created online accounts and monetize them. these accounts being sold at scale very likely seems like accounts that are literally stolen or created with stolen personal information.
of course, i'm not saying violating ToS is illegal or whatever bs. i hate those PII monetizing big tech as much as any other fediverse user.
either you didn't get the idea, or you don't know what's identity theft
is that legally identity theft? Creating accounts and then transferring them to others? I'm sure it violates ToS but I wasn't aware that it was illegal
It varies by jurisdiction but if the reseller you bought from is selling you an account used by some other person for some personally identifiable thing (which is why the internet at large trusts that account and why you bought it!) then you’re at the very least toeing the line of Id theft or impersonation and while the cops might not be able to get you for that particular crime they will absolutely have enough suspicion to investigate you and discover other crimes or even just watchlist you.
I don’t care if you break the law from a moral or ethical standpoint, but it can cause you problems from a practical one.
that's not what i'm talking about. i mean, the one who sold you the account is very likely not the one who provided the personal information to create the account. it's very hard to create those online accounts at scale with few people's personal information, so identity theft is widely utilized to mitigate that.
I think you overestimate the scale. Last I checked there were only like 3-4 sellers. They could easily be making these accounts themselves. If the scale grew larger, people in poorer countries would see it as a way to make a quick buck, and start selling them as well. And if the scale grew to an enormous size, Protonmail would probably just start accepting crypto instead of just letting darknet sellers make all the money.
i've seen far more. maybe there's not many on the specific forum/website you're looking at, but there are many criminals on dark web forums selling directly stolen accounts or accounts generated with stolen PIIs. in this case it is definitely illegal/criminal, and this post may be seen as endorsing such cases.
interesting, I have not seen that before but if it helps, no I don't endorse stealing accounts or buying stolen accounts. Given how easy it is to make a (non-anonymous) Protonmail account I'm inclined to believe that most accounts sold are legitimate, but one should always practice best judgement when browsing the darknet
Yeah the word “theft” usually connotes harm via taking away the possession of another. Identity sale or even light identity “fraud” if you’re being pedantic, but hardly theft if the originator of the account is knowingly transferring it away from themselves, especially for monetary gain.
Man, if you really think some darknet service is going to be more reliable just because Protonmail wants a specific kind of fiat
what do you mean? Are you talking about how you can pay for Protonmail using cash? I haven't found a way to anonymously send cash. Physical movement can be easily tracked via surveillance cameras
Exactly, do you really think that your data is magically more secure because you paid the vendor with bits farmed on an ASIC somewhere instead of dead slave owner portraits?
It's amazing how in such few words you have shown how you know utterly nothing about Monero
Monero is very secure. You might want to actually read about it first... For one, it runs best on consumer grade hardware
Cool, so running on consumer hardware makes your communications more secure how exactly?
yes, I believe that Tor and Monero are more private/secure than the postal service, just like I believe that 2048-bit RSA is more secure than a padlock
Nobody mentioned the postal service? You’re either hallucinating AI slop or a deluded zoomer regurgitating AI slop, and therefore you can go fuck yourself sideways
Just get a Tuta account. No recovery email or phone number required. Sometimes they will kill a new account, just wait a day or two before using it or buy a voucher from Proxysrore with Monero and upgrade.
Tuta will kill any new account that is used to register to another service. It's in their ToS and you get blocked immediately.
I used Tuta to create my Bluesky account and all my Addy traffic goes to Tuta although I did wait a while before using my Tuta.
Tuta is not the best check the list at the bottom of the first post --> https://programming.dev/post/50697138
Who said it was the best?
no one you're right, I was meaning it's not fitting in my need ( see my post )
I have had spotty success with Tuta in the past. Out of the 5-10 times I tried, maybe 2-3 succeeded. And I had to wait 1-2 day before I could find out whether or not it succeeded, and if it failed I'd have no idea why. I just found the process way too annoying, and I'm willing to pay a few bucks to save myself the trouble. And, last I remember, the voucher can only be used to upgrade an account, but the problem is creating an account in the first place
I've recently changed dozens of accounts to use Mozilla email masks. Most websites accept them, and the ones that don't I think twice if I actually need that service. I have Simple Login and 3 custom domains if I really want to, before I give out a personally identifiable name. I've only seen one service that was super strict and only allowed gmail, outlook/hotmail, and yahoo.
Can you elaborate on how to get get Monero and hide then transaction from BigData/Gov?
I've seen some of the basic steps but I imagine the Gov/Bank see me transfer money to a Monero.
They see that Monero account pay for ServiceX. They then see ServiceX coming from my IP (a VPN might precent this). Or they see ServiceX used by an account that is linked to me. Or they see a number of services paid for by the same Monero account.
Using a VPN is not always possible.
I've also seen machines that take cash but imagine these have CCTV to prevent theft and many link to me even harder.
Gov/Bank see me transfer money to Monero
They don't, Monero transactions are entirely anonymous and untraceable.
They see that Monero account pay for ServiceX
They don't, Monero transactions are entirely anonymous and untraceable.
they see a number of services paid for by the same Monero account.
They don't, Monero transactions are entirely anonymous and untraceable.
I don't quite remember since I bought it so long ago, but I think the easiest method was to simply buy some bitcoin or ethereum at an exchange (they usually don't support monero), and then use a swap service to convert to monero. I also remember something about rinsing/washing your initial funds, by first sending them to another Monero wallet that you own? Sort of like a mixer, but since Monero transactions are mixed up by default, you can just send them to another wallet and the final wallet is now unlinked from you? To be honest I don't even know if this step is necessary. Hopefully somebody else can pitch in here with more up-to-date tips.
As for your VPN concerns, if you can't use a VPN all the time, reading online it seems like the official Monero GUI wallet supports Tor, though I haven't tried it so I can't really help here
Edit: in case you haven't heard of Tails or Whonix, I'd also recommend looking into those if you care strongly about privacy. Be warned that they are fairly inconvenient to use though
Edit2: it seems like the extra step of sending the funds from one monero wallet to another one that you own, is unnecessary. If you use a KYC exchange, then use a (non-NYC) swap to convert to Monero and transfer to your wallet, then you should be fine. Though it can't hurt to send the money to a second wallet, sort of like adding a hop to the onion routing system used by Tor.
Also, apparently Monero feather wallet has good Tor support. You can read more on reddit or the Dread forums on Tor
Outlook gives you aliases, but obviously we're not trying to use big bro tech.
Proton paid does this as does free with limited aliases.
Then there's SimpleLogin (also through Proton) that gives you a bunch of domains to use with several other domains. The only service that rejected the alias domain was Github, but it's trash and owned by MS so nbd.
Good post, haven't tried this as I haven't felt the need but it's good to know there is a market for this.
Man just go to gmail and make an email address. I have like 30. I have addresses for spam, doing financial stuff, signing up for irl service requests (plumbing or electrician or whatever), etc etc. it takes like 5 mins to setup forwarding and filters, so you don’t miss something you care about
The post is about creating accounts anonymously. I think you are talking about preventing the email recipient from knowing who you are. I am talking about preventing the email provider (Gmail, Protonmail) and the government (who can compel companies to track users) from knowing who you are.
This is an extreme threat model that takes a lot of effort, but one that some may find useful nonetheless
Can we just perfect strangers this and I create zendayagirl67@gmail and you create shielaandstu@hotmail, then we trade?
Am I being very naive?
Interesting idea. Honestly at first glance I thought this seemed ok, but it's actually dangerous. Imagine if you initiated a trade with somebody and they turned out to be a fed. The fed now has the gmail account you created, and can just ask gmail who created the account. Now they have your identity, and they also know the hotmail account they gave you, so your identity is now linked to that email as well.
By definition, the only way to anonymously acquire an email account is to give zero identifying information about yourself, but by giving away an email account that you created non-anonymously, you are giving away identifying details.
Oh, yeah. That’s a very real possibility. I assume trading only with trusted online friends (obviously one might trust the wrong person, but plenty of people have 20+ year old friendships with people whom they’ve never met irl, and ) would compound the problem by making your online network even more traceable?
That's another tricky question. I suppose it's possible to make an anonymous online connection, chat with them long enough to be confident that they aren't a fed, and then trade emails. Sounds like a lot of work though 😅
Some things to be cautious about though. If this is a friend that you made over non-anonymous channels, eg Facebook or Discord, then the feds may have already established a link between you two. I'm sure the feds create big social graphs that map the connections between everybody. So if you trade emails with a friend, and then do something illegal with that email, the feds go to your friend, realize that they have the wrong person, and even if your friend doesn't give up any info, the feds might investigate you anyways due to your connection to them.
Yeah, I think you’re right and it’s unlikely that many people have such long friendships with people over entirely private media.
If you’re enjoying the hypotheticals, I’ve got another, but if they’re unhelpful/distracting, don’t feel obligated to indulge me. What if you had an open, anonymous community sharing a chain of emails, so each person joining the group would receive the email account made by the person before them and would make an email for the person joining after them? Obviously the feds could still infiltrate it, but they’d have a lot less data from any given user and they’d get the most data from the person who joins after they do, which they can’t control. Unless they monitor it 24/7 and get lucky, they wouldn’t be able to make sure every other user is a fed. That seems like it would also be relatively easy to detect, if every single time a new account joined, another immediately followed.
keep the hypotheticals coming! They're always fun to think about.
The problem with the chain sharing idea, is all it takes is one person to not make an email for the next person, and the chain is broken.
It sounds like you are trying to create a system for anonymously trading emails. Maybe you invent a fancy system where you have to give an email in order to receive one. But why stop there? What if somebody comes along and says "I'm not very good at making emails, but I can write songs. Can I trade a song for an email address?" And then somebody else says "Sure! Man it would be nice if there were some intermediate form of value that we could use to trade goods and services, instead of just trading emails directly". Voila, the invention of currency :). This is effectively what the darknet market is. A way to anonymously trade goods and services.
I don’t give any PII when I create a new email address
You can't create a Gmail account these days without a valid phone number
Your IP is your PII
Same but with proton
Proton asks for a phone number
Does it? Did it always?
It depends. Certain behaviour like creating multiple accounts in a short time span, or creating an account using Tor/VPN will trigger ProtonMail into making you verify with a phone number, a (non-ProtonMail) email address, or by paying them
