someDaysAreBetterThanOthers
(midwest.social)
Programmer HumorLol. They ban my account for posting this meme programmatically. Apparently only old school artisanal manual uploads to be allowed. 0 logic
How can you post when you were banned?
How can you post when you were banned?
or - they banned me from from programmer Humor@lemmy.ml, Programmer Humor@programming.dev just deleted all the posts. whatever
I guess I'm getting scammed then.
Or comparing European vs US wages
At least we don't have to deduct 45% of our wages for the eventuality of needing a doctor and also walking 10km with a broken leg to avoid an ambulance ride.
In Germany we get deducted around 40% directly, before the money even reaches us q.q Tbf that includes health care as well as taxes already and also we are a smidge farther away from fascism.
Yeah don't Americans get paid taxes included? Here in Italy I get my wage with income tax, welfare costs etc already deducted.
Yes, we still get taxed and then we have to pay out of pocket for health insurance. Luckily my company has some good, cheap insurance. I also take advantage of the high deductible program so I can save tax free money in my health savings account.
How to even get an internship? I have tried everything but cant get a single call and you are saying there are people earning 6k dollars pm. Noice.
if you're not landing internships via your college then you're attending a shit college. my old school has Google, Meta, OpenAI, Apple, Microsoft, etc setting up mini conventions on an annual basis hoping to snipe some UofW fresh grad to exploit.
tbh that sounds more like you've been at an awesome college.
really? I always assumed that was the norm for schools. I went to the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada and every year it was a massive thing getting internships and paid gigs with these places. It's such an important thing we had an entire building on campus dedicated purely to it. for CS majors it was required for graduation.
I went to an university in Europe. None of the companies you listed set up anything here.
Don’t forget those sweet RSUs too!
Yes, there’s nothing like an imaginary number that keeps growing and never materialises.
god dam where they getting that
Lockheed Martin
Lol they are not
Maybe that's the monthly pay
Yeah that’s a very big monthly pay
$150,000/yr (yes big, less than median for software engineers in the US) is $2k/week, $8k/month
8k/month is 96k/year. Just multiply by 12
If do contract work that's not even that much
True, then insurance and no time off or other benefits would suck.
It's only "no time off" if that's what you want. It's time off whenever you want (and sometimes when you don't want).
Contract work is rarely direct deposit, though?
US banking is weird. How would it be paid instead?
I've never hired a software consultant, but most of the time when I hire a company or person to do contract work like roofing, gardening or similar they prefer to be paid by check. Sometimes they accept credit cards, but usually not when the bill is over a certain amount, due to the cut going to the card company.
Furthermore, "Direct Deposit" is basically a special term used for people getting their wages or salary paid to their bank account, as opposed to receiving it by check or cash. Other types of bank-to-bank transfers have different names, like "wire transfer" or "ACH transfer".
Americans love overcomplicating things in general, and particularly love using overly specific and technical names for stuff. There's acronyms everywhere, and things are named after weird technicalities. Like nobody says "retirement account", they call it "401(k)", named after the paragraph in the law which defines it.
You find stuff like that everywhere if you look. Some of their coins don't even have a value printed on them, you just have to memorize how much they're worth.
In Europe (maybe also elsewhere outside the US?) nearly all transactions are simply direct bank transactions. Occasionally facilitated through some app, but usually it's just your own bank's app. Nobody has used checks for decades, and the only reason we're using credit cards is because the US keeps forcing them on us.
Depends on how you do ur billing but yeah it varies
A month!? I know it's regional but that's low for a monthly deposit for a contractor!
You're not accounting for taxes and insurance. You lose way more to both as a self employed individual (at least here in the states)
If you're a self employed contractor, you're taking taxes and insurance out yourself, not from what you'd be paid.
Exactly. When I was self employed, my monthly invoice was almost always in the 5 figures. From that you pay your VAT every quarter, save up for income taxes, pay all sorts of insurances, and what you've got left is a lot less, but the initial transfer looks very good.
I'm not really sure what your point is. If I bill my guy 8k for the hours I did last month he sends me 8k. I then personally have to buy my own insurance and do my quarterly taxes
Right, which would happen after the direct deposit, so your entire tangent about taxes and insurance seems irrelevant to the meme and conversation involving the amount in the meme.
Nah, that’s a normal paycheck for a medium level engineer in any American big city.
Nay, daily.
Eh, that looks like typical take home for a staff level engineer in a big city.
Edit: Assuming they get paid every two weeks, that’s an annual take home of $161,122. Depending on state taxes, insurance coverage, 401k contributions, dependents, etc, that’s a base salary of $200-250k. Which, yeah, that’s what I budget for a staff salary.
I think for a SF based company 200 - 250k salary is typical for even a senior engineer.
$161,122
Heck, I'd be pulling more than that if I were a self-employed consultant rather than under a consulting firm, in our small city in northern Scandinavia.
Now I'm raking in a little below that, and I'm taking out like a third of it as actual salary and saving the rest, to avoid high taxes, and to to pay for a leased car, pension saving, extra insurance etc, before taxes. But after all that I'm probably saving $3k every month tax free, and maybe $1,5k in my bank account.
Engineering life is pretty okay. Still can't afford a house yet though. Thanks boomers.
Key phrase is "big city". I'm a staff and there's a mid on my team that moved to Seattle. His cost of living adjustment when he moved allows him to make more than I do.
That's not that outrageous as a higher-level IC in a big tech company in a big city. But if you're that senior you're not questioning why you became an engineer.
There's a reason the typical dev career pipeline ends at farmer. People get tired of all the bs and leave never to be seen again.
What is a farmer as a dev?
I mean, you definitely do. I know numerous people that dropped the field entirely (including me) even though the pay is ridiculous.
I also left, the industry is toxic right now. Circus for me
Already farming?
Woodworking, close enough?
Same ballpark yeah
Sometimes it is just a really intense garden.
Mechanical Engineer (union) with 20 years experience, slightly underpaid at $76.33/hr in (just north of the) Seattle area.
It doesn't say it's salary. A lot of companies pay out bonuses right around now.
That's on the high end, but not so high it's uncommon, for a salary paid biweekly to a senior engineer.
I know, and I mentioned that in another thread. The first panel in the comic was giving junior engineer vibes, though.
California. It goes with high cost of living.
If you can add AI to your title somehow, that might even be midrange. I was talking to someone who has not been doing this long pushing pretty close to a half million dollar salary and then bonuses on top.
After taxes that's like 300k salary.
Closer to $200-$250K depending on how much you withhold for 401k.
Omg, this is so true
You got a job?
sign me the fuck up for $6k per pay period.
Hope you're willing to relocate to SF and still spend 50+% of your income on housing you will never own.
The math still works out. $40,000/year on rent, 50% tax rate at $600k/year total comp for a mid/high level engineer (if you’ve been working for a while). So after rent you’re taking in $240k/year. Let’s say your other expenses are another $40k.
That’s $200k saved per year. In some places that’s your entire annual salary!
So you’ve saved $1m after working 5 years.
Realistically the equity is worth a lot more over time due to tech stocks generally performing well and long term capital gains.
I don't think your math does work out. If your take-home every two weeks is $6197 (after tax), then your annual take-home pay is $161,122. if your rent is 50% of your income that's $80, 561, not unheard of if you live in a tech hub and have kids that want their own bedroom. Knock off your $40k for other expenses and you're saving $40,561 per year. That's assuming that all your other expenses (car, gas, groceries, utilities, childcare, healthcare, insurance, i could go on) all come out under $40,000, which I think is optimistic.
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Ok if you’re considering a single income family then the numbers change since you’re paying more for housing but less in taxes. Say instead of 50% tax rate it’s now 45%, which is $330k take home.
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Cash is only a portion of the total comp. You have to either consider publicly tradable RSUs or equity pre IPO. This can be 50+% of the cash salary. At staff or higher levels, this grows to 100+%. My assumption of $600k TC is a $300k cash and $300k stock, which is reasonable for a staff engineer.
$330k - $80k (housing) - $50k (expenses) = $200k
So with these numbers you’re still saving $200+k a year.
Note that if we’re talking dual income families, the numbers are even more in your favor.
I'm not sure where you're getting your $330k take home figure from. If your paycheck direct deposit is $6197 and you get paid every 2 weeks, that's 26 paychecks per year, or 26 * $6197 = $161,122. if your take home pay was $330k annually, your direct deposit would be $330,000 / 26 ~= $12,692.
Also not sure why total compensation is relevant. Of course if you're getting more money you can save more money but we're talking about being a software engineer and getting $6k checks deposited. Some engineers get equity, but many don't, and of those that do get options many don't stick around long enough for their options to mature, and of those that do, only some of them have matured options that have actually appreciated enough to make them worth exercising. I'm not saying equity can't be very valuable, there are engineers out there who've made serious bank with equity, but it is more often than not a carrot dangled in front of engineers to entice them to tolerate their shitty job a little longer. I don't think assuming a $161k/yr check translates to a $600k/yr return is a sound or accurate assumption. It is, however, a common one. Junior engineers fresh out of college are good at math, and they calculate out what their equity should be worth and get dollar signs in their eyes and sign up. A few of them get that, most do not.
Are we talking about the big tech companies or a SWE at a non tech company?
Because ALL the big tech firms will have similar levels of TC. For example a staff SWE at Google in SF will make $267k cash and $292k stock according to levels.fyi. This cash amount can reasonably be $6000 after taxes. Note that the stock vests monthly. You can literally auto-sell the stock for an extra 100+% cash every month.
Meta vests quarterly which is still sufficiently often and they pay even more stock.
Netflix is known not to grant stock but they will pay the equivalent in cash.
Amazon has a graduated vesting policy but the annual TC is still normalized.
If $6197 is your only form of compensation per two weeks, then that’s not a big tech salary. you can go make that outside a high CoL area. But if you live in SF, it’s a reasonable cash deposit for a staff SWE (except Netflix).
I'm talking about this image
And this comment:
sign me the fuck up for $6k per pay period.
Something to keep in mind here is that senior and super-senior engineers (staff, principal, distinguished, whatever honorifics they're using now) are a minority within the engineering population, by design. Of engineers with those titles, only a minority of them work at the megatech companies that sit at the top of the stock market. They are huge corporations, but they aren't the majority of the market. And there's nothing to suggest that someone getting that paycheck is making over half a million a year in total comp.
And speaking of "Total Compensation", a general PSA for anyone in tech (especially new devs): don't consider equity as compensation until you can and do cash it out. If it's not money in your bank account, it's not compensation, it's a lottery ticket. If you are offered options, especially if you're early in your career, you're very likely to exit the company (either voluntarily or via a layoff) before any of your options mature, much less all of them. Most options plans start vesting after 12 months, and don't fully vest until 4 years. the median tenure for tech workers with a college degree in the US aged 25-34 is 2.8 years, so the majority of them would be leaving before a significant percentage of their options mature. It might still be a good gamble in some cases, and even bad gambles sometimes pay off, but don't make the mistake of equating equity with cash, they aren't the same.
Love me a good payday.
No cm002 please don’t use the same repost bot as that other guy. Was it you the whole time????
Maybe I should aim for coding engineer at least wouldn't have worry about my needing to brute force sokatoah
What's sokatoah?
Tarantino's fetish
Could anyone list me all the cm repost bots? I thought I had squelched all of them.
Not a bot, all my crossposts are done by my 2 hands lmao
::: spoiler Why am I cross-posting .ml content?
I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to help vitilize non-.ml comms and make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don't want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some active niche comms.
Some highlights from the link:
.ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558 The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068
"If you don't support Russia then you just don't understand geopolitics" ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415
"Don't worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167
"See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn't count!!" ~ Davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/30673342
"NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!" ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035
General negative sentiment to other instances who haven't "seen the way" yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510
And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can't even put them all here because this comment would be really long.
I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda
On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like "Lemmy? Isn't that the place with a bunch of tankies?" Or "Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left". The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team. :::
But if you want you can check the bio of this profile that links to a list of all accounts used for this purpose
That reminds me, I need a raise
