What I found funnier is that these fictional people armed themselves. They violently opposed their oppressors. But many people are still brainwashed that peaceful protest, or single day protests, will end the oppressions.

You're supposed to make your actions unavoidable to ignore. The oppressors has to consider you a threat to even begin dialogue.

well, reality is simply more complicated than fiction.

in reality there is no clear good guys and bad guys. if you see it that way then you are absolutely oversimplifying something.

there can be victims and aggressors, but that doesn't make the victims "good guys". for example, i actually despise so much of what the Palestinian government represents, and yet, they are undeniably the victims. that does not make them good guys.

that concept is too much for most people to contend with. many people, especially conservatives, never grew out of needing everything to be cast in black and white. they can see someone kicked and abused and denigrated their whole life, and still only see them as "bad" for escaping that torment with drugs.

unfortunately there are many resistance movements i could join right now in america, but they're all the wrong kind. they are confederate wannabes that just want the chance to shoot gay and brown people.

if life were a simple as "join the resistance" being generally good advice i would need to be a screaming racist homophobe to do it. i think I'd honestly prefer being killed by the fascists.

There are bad guys like neitanyahu, but most people are not that bad

I was watching one of the new star wars shows with my kids and the villain basically says he’s going to enslave the people of a world. And I thought, how is it that we recognize that as evil but once you put a wage into place we behave as though there is a meaningful choice?

The main reason is that while there are people who are willing to politically fight for the right thing, there are very few people who are willing to die for the right thing.

Luigi is one of those and even he has affluence.

We need 100+ Luigi's before we see the average person willing to risk their life.

Think about it this way: what would happen right now if Luigi were to die by the state? If he can't usher systematic change, what chance does my life have?

This isn't just online. While I'm not going to openly talk about what forms of resistance my local group has taken on, very few people are willing to do more than what we've been doing and it's frustrating.

Trump and the GOP are literally running the fascism playbook and we only have a few more chapters left until he has the ability to fully dismantle democracy.

I see it, its just that in reality a significant portion of "the resistance" has contributed to reinforcing and strengthening the tyranny it claims to be against, in a bid to force me into joining it due to the threat of devastating collapse of basic support systems.

The resistance in our reality is a villain, just a lesser one.

Most people in all of those stories just tried to live their lives. The story follows the few that didn't.

In real life, even if there is a resistance, the connection between those that could join/assist and the general populace, is blocked by a constant surveillance and enforcement state. When groups start to form, they're arrested because the act of organizing draws attention to them. Think of all the 'terrorist' groups you know. You know about them, because they organized. Which put a target on them. Which is also what ends most resistance groups.

Morpheus explains it to Neo in the movie

You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

The word "matrix" comes from old french "matrice" meaning "womb".

How many worm lovers missed the point about Paul?

What you see here is more of a product of simple movie plots IMO.

Paul Atreides is a classic Tragic Hero.

He has the full arc, including the fall caused by his own hubris.

That's what most people miss, because they only read the first book, or watch the movies.

Frank Herbert seems to have drawn inspiration from Greek Tragedy and the life of Lawrence of Arabia.

T.E. Lawrence sort of created the mess that is the Modern Middle East. Sure the Ottoman Empire was oppressive, but the chaos Lawrence created allowed the region to be carved up and divided by the French and British. Who instantly betrayed Lawrence's allies in that fight.

At least in the States, they think they are “the resistance “.

Kinda terrifying, right?

It's really true and took me years to realize that they think of themselves in the same way that revolutionaries think of themselves. It's sad because they are shoulder to shoulder with power and the whole thing is an illusion, just lies fed to them by right wing think tanks.

Katniss is pretty much a god at every ranged weapon she uses, the resistance has space wizards, and Neo is fucking trans Jesus

These movies aren't exactly setting people up for doing anything other than heroic last stands where they die horribly because they aren't the protagonist.

Andor was a pretty good example of how an organized vanguard party made up of ordinary people (ok and a few galactic senators - they didn’t get everything right) can overthrow an empire.

You mean through the events of Rogue One? I'm not understanding how else Andor and the party overthrew the empire otherwise.

Well, yeah sure. I guess in the end the space wizards did the final lifting, but Luke would never have gotten near the Death Star without the work of the vanguard party.

Society is good guys vs bad guys, so true!

I think there are mainly two reasons for this:

  1. In fiction, you’re simply not personally affected, so you don’t have to face any adversity or negative consequences. It costs nothing to see yourself as part of the revolutionary movement, and you don’t put yourself in danger.

  2. Apparently, many people simply don’t want to admit what monsters their leaders really are, even though it’s actually obvious. This is the result of decades of propaganda, I think: The U.S., for example, has always seen itself as the friendly superpower that brings freedom and democracy to the world. Now that it is obvious even to the biggest idiot that this has always been a lie - since the regime has abandoned the facade - people are looking for other explanations to maintain the worldview they have long held to be true - such as the excuse that the current U.S. president is being controlled by evil forces from other countries (Russia/Israel) and therefore does not represent his own, indeed so righteous, country at all.

Listen as cypher groans about life in the resistance. Constant fear and anxiety from the bots, shitty food bricks etc. We all like to pretend we are tough as nails and can take any hardships, that attitude changes quickly, especially when you can see and even manipulate the alternative life in the matrix.

I think there was a point where cypher wanted to fight and be a genuine part of the resistance, the stress eventually got to him. How many "chosen ones" before neo did he see come and die? Eventually it seems hopeless and he could probably game the matrix just right to have a good, albeit artifical, life for himself. It would be like having an option to go back in time and buy amazon/apple/nividia stocks at just the right moment.

Resistance is often painted as easier than it is. It sugar coats the losses. It makes losing 25 people to kill 5 agressors a "victory". The actors stay fit and strong even if their characters are getting 1 meal a day.

We see it, there just isn’t a “resistance” to join that plans to do anything remotely close to those movies.

It's the funding. Toothpaste costs money. It's too risky to keep stealing large quantities of toothpaste, but you have to live off the grid for years to do what they do in the movies. You can't even expect to go back to a normal life after you accomplished your task. Could be they brand you a terrorist and you have to live in hiding forever. There are IRL examples for this.

Also keeping in mind that you can't guarantee that what comes after the revolution will be any better. For instance, how many revolutions did the French have until they got to where they are now? How many of those revolutions left the country worse off until the next one?

There's the saying "things will get worse before they get better"... that "worse" could be generations long.

The PSL’s mission is explicitly stated to create a vanguard party to lead a revolution in the US. Obviously they’re a long way off, but don’t say nobody is organizing resistance.

Vanguard parties always angle for dictatorships and put anarchists who aren't compliant up against a wall after a successful revolution, history has taught us this time and time again. The PSL are authoritarians and not to be trusted.

They started in 2004. Let’s just declare it dead at this point.

The RSDLP was founded in 1898, the Russian revolution happened 20 years after. The timescales aren't dissimilar

What a pessimistic view. In 2008, the PSL's presidential candidate recieved 0.01% of the popular vote. In 2024, their candidate received 0.11%. That's a 1000%+ increase in their votership in less than 20 years, while operating in a country where communism is illegal and the forces of capital spend billions of dollars on pro-capitalist propaganda each year. If anything, they are thriving more than ever.

Or do you think revolution happens overnight and can just spontaneously happen without any mass class consciousness amongst the people?

It’s not a pessimistic view. It’s a realistic view. You sound like a pro-government shill sneaking their way into an anarchy group to calm everyone down.

We need something new. We also need fewer people who respond “well then you do it, har har har”

So an organization that is growing exponentially is dead. Right.

Honestly you are the one who sounds like a government shill, telling people to give up on existing organizations that are having great success.

Or maybe you are just expecting too much too soon. Which is not realism, but idealism.

I just know Americans aren’t going to do anything to help themselves. Go kill a billionaire. aFtEr yOu!

Enjoy the next century of right wing rulers in Merica. ✌️

Ok, so now you’re advocating for lone wolf terrorism? Get serious dude.

Yeah, that's the point. The resistance in movies is always a very professional, single-minded and effective operation with perfect logistics and a common goal. It's easy to imagine being a part of such an "activist power fantasy" where everything is smooth sailing until the world revolution while getting cheered on all the way.

While IRL activism and organizing is messy and tedious. It's hard to feel like a hero when the political landscape is a confusing mess, there is no clear strategy on what to do next and the group you joined can't agree on when to do the next coffee break.

perfect

Someone hasn't seen Andor nor Rogue One!

Or basically ANY movie with a resistance... They're either established by powers that seek change over decades and thetegore have had time to figure things out, or they're woefully under supplied.

Also real life examples of resistance movements being coordinated in short amounts of time are apparently irrelevant, too.

Incidentally, one of my favorite WW2 movies is Anthropoid about the Czech resistance... If any of this topic interests any readers at all, don't look up anything about it; go in blind! It's free to library card holders on Kanopy.

True...we need a resistance.

Hear hear

Also here and here.

People are too cowardly to start it because they fear social ostracization more than tyranny.

Your conscious experience is all that you are. The only thing that truly belongs to you. Valuing it above all else only makes sense.

In Star Wars, the resistance was led by a princess. In The Matrix, the resistance was led by a demigod. I’m less familiar with The Hunger Games. But I think Katniss was just a regular person without any power. So at least with the other two, the rebellions had backing. Plus they actually did something so it was a valid side to take. Most people don’t want to put their safety and future on the line for an idea.

In SW, it wasn't led by Leia. You could argue Mon Mothma but the resistance was never lead by one individual.

wHaT aBouT tHe dEepSTatE?!

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