Anon needs a good response
(midwest.social)
đčEarly to RISA đ§
GreentextPut in headphones, listen to a comedy laugh and ignore. Probably better turn on the body cam on too..... And create space from this person.
And stop trying to get everyone to like you.You don't even like everyone.
I use all these techniques to get out of paying for prostitutes.
(Just kidding I can't afford prostitutes)
Guys I'm not sure if this person is just kidding
I feel like everyone here needs a reminder that love bombing is something that happens AFTER mistreatment to make the victim calm down and become compliant.
This isn't just being overly affectionate, it's a technique used to manipulate behavior and keep a victim loyal.
lovebombing used to describe cult behavior where a large group would shower praise and validation on a prospective member as a recruitment tactic. it's no surprise that there's confusion about what it means when it's used to describe a wide variety of behaviors that are superficially connected.
Though it can be used during the initial parts of a relationship to make it progress at a very fast rate. Imo it's best to hit the brakes even if the other person isn't abusive. And hit the brakes as in don't rush to move in with them, get married, or have a kid, as I think ending a relationship because it's moving too fast is just as likely to end a good thing as avoid abuse.
IMO detecting abusive people is best done by seeing how they react when challenged, especially by someone they might consider a lesser.
With someone coming on too strong too fast you need to keep your eyes open and be aware of your boundaries. It may be someone who's awesome and sincere who's just on a different pace than you, it may be an intentional abuser being machiavellian, but it's also got a pretty good chance of being someone unstable and sincere and oh fucking boy will that cause problems if you don't have and maintain boundaries.
Also, despite the name, the relationship does NOT need to be romantic for this to apply. Literally anyone in your life can be a abuser with tactics like this. Usually, sadly, it's someone with some authority or ability to screw up your life. For example, like a workplace manager or a family member.
Anon you're an asshole and you know this since kindergarten. Stop gaslighting
"....this is a Wendy's."
I never got to this point in the first place. But generally, I don't respond.
"Ok, I'm evil, I admit it, goodbye".
Everyone is happy, the end.
360 you stay exactly where you were
That's the joke
You can walk away and be criticized for going your own way instead.
"I do tend to overexplain and I'm sorry, please shut me down if I do, but please believe me when I tell you that I overexplain everyone and it has nothing to do with your perceived gender, I just have the *tism." - this is my usually response because it's true.
I got accused of mansplaining because I was helping someone on a tech support call (they were taking the call to support a user, and I was assisting them) and I started with the basic information they'd need to understand the problem and how to fix it. After the call she turned around to the guy next to her and complained about it and he was just like, "oh, no, he's like that with everyone".
My philosophy was based on the fact that our managers hired people for people skills over technical background because they assumed the tech stuff could be trained and that if someone was asking me for help there was a gap in their knowledge somewhere and I had no way to know where it was other than to begin at the beginning and work through it. Most people appreciated it. But some were full of themselves and got pissed about it, those types typically didn't last very long on that job.
banger
Reflect upon how you are acting. Empathize with the other person's POV. Then discuss rationally from a point of mutual benefit.
It depends if the accusations come in good or bad faith.
Lol, no.
Name checks out
Hey, they don't have any for me either.
Stop getting relationship advice/expectations from 4chan, for starters.
But my relationship is going a little too well
The lovebombing accusation is what gets me. Sorry for being lonely and easily getting infatuated on the rare occasion I get to date someone đ
Edit: For clarification, I am just saying that "lovebombing" doesn't necessarily have to be an intentional manipulation tactic. I am not saying it's not a reason for concern
I man no disrespect but you gotta reign it in. I totally get where you're coming from but getting lovebombed is a red flag for good reason.
You alluded to one reason why in your comment...if the infatuation isn't mutual, it feels like the person is just excited to be in a relationship. They're in love with being in love, not with me.
And unless you're a narcissist, it just feels weird to put on a pedestal. Getting fawned over 24/7 is too much. People just want a partner that is a normal person most of the time.
It also has the connotation of codependence. And with that, it's likely this person is going to have a mental breakdown if we break up in a year.
Lovebombing usually means baggage. It's understandable that people don't want to start a relationship with someone carrying a ton of baggage.
Yeah I associate it with uncontrolled BPD and it fucking terrifies me at this point because of the experiences that caused that association. Being put on a pedestal sucks, your successes become expected and your failures become catastrophic. But also you can feel trapped for fear of hurting someone who you do like who's in a bad place. And from there enforcing boundaries can start to feel like hurting them.
With my wife we still make points to express that we'd be ok and manage if the other left. Our finances are built with that in mind even. Knowing I can leave makes me always aware of how I don't want to, and it makes us safe and secure in the fact that we know the other doesn't want to.
I mean, thank you for your advice, but I've been dating for quite a while now so I already learned I have to tone it down. It just feels frustrating having to pretend I'm less interested than I actually am, when I'm usually a person that hates being dishonest
But the reasons to be put off by lovebombing are justified. You're a stranger juggling knives and frustrated that they're backing away lol
I mean they keep acknowledging that it kinda just seems you're telling them that they have no choice but to pretend they're someone different than who they are
Yes, I am well aware. I just know that lovebombing can also be seen, like in this greentext, as a deliberate manipulation tactic (and often probably is). My original comment was just meant to show the other side, that it isn't always a manipulation attempt. And I'm absolutely not saying they are in the wrong for being weary of it.
I am childfree, and it's very hard in my country to find women that also never want children, so I get overly excited when I find one that is willing to go on a date with me. I have learned to tone it down
Ask "Why do you feel that's what I'm doing?" then reflect on the answer and how your behaviour was perceived this way. Finally, if after reflection you come to the conclusion that indeed you acted poorly, apologise and try to behave differently in the future.
"Because youre doing it"
Now you've determined that your partner is a poor communicator, because "because" is never a useful answer. Now your question is whether to try to work with your partner to improve communication, or give up on an adult whose communication skills haven't advanced beyond those of a child in first grade.
Because is literally the answer to any question starting with "why". Even if you leave "because" unsaid it's implied in any response to "why?"
Because is not an answer. Because can be the first word in an answer, but if nothing is provided afterwards than the answer is essentially, "I believe it to be so, and I choose to provide no evidence whatsoever to support that belief." And how do you move forward from that? In fact, your specific statement I responded to was
"Because youre doing it"
What kind of response can be made to that? There is no example, merely an assertion. There is nothing specific, merely a general response. What kind of resolution besides complete capitulation or parting ways can be made based on this statement? In fact, if I was given that response in a conversation and was feeling combative, I would be inclined to respond with, "Who's stonewalling now?" And, given how I put because in quotes, implying a complete statement, I could argue your response to my previous comment was gaslighting.
Well ask a dumb question you get a dumb answer. If someone's being a dick I'm gonna feel like they're being a dick because they're being a dick. What other answer you expect? "Because im on my period and being irrational?"
If someone is behaving poorly, there are two broad reasons. They know and are choosing to (for some value of choosing) and they don't know and are doing it anyway. If someone is being a dick and doesn't realize why they're being a dick, pointing it out can cause them to realize they're being a dick, at which point they can choose to stop (again, for some value of choosing) or they can not, which puts them in category of knowing and choosing to. All that assumes that they accept your assessment of the situation is correct.
Now, as for your specific alternative? Having been in this type of situation, I would go with something along the lines of, "Aww, honey that sucks. Let's stop arguing about how your feelings about the state of the kitchen aren't my problem. Now, do you want cuddles before or after I tidy the kitchen, and where does chocolate and/or ice cream fit into this process?" Now, granted, my wife has learned to accept that my stupid, overly-specific ass is just that and is willing to say things like that on occasion since subtle is only a theoretical concept around here.
If someone is being a dick and doesnât realize why theyâre being a dick
I think you're confusing the words "how" and "why". Why they're being a dick is a question for a therapist, unresolved childhood trauma, insecurities etc.
How they're being a dick is the question you seem to be referring to. They don't realize that what they're doing is wrong or hurtful, because they don't see how their actions are affecting their partner.
"How does that make you feel" is another good question. I might be unaware that my actions are upsetting in the first place.
But saying "why do you feel that way" creates separation between yourself and your actions and places the burden of introspection on the partner, not yourself. My partner gets upset when i make a mess, because I made a mess. Their feelings do not require introspection. My actions are the issue in that case. If im confused i would ask "How do my actions affect you?". I might not realize how big a problem the mess is for them, that's where the education is needed, not on why they have feelings about my mess.
You clearly need to improve your communication skills
/s
And if it doesn't?
Then they are acting unreasonably. It's not so hard.
Trying to start a terapy randomly feeling like the one of the wort advice personally. In theory it is best thing to argue about something but in practice probably it will devolve to something else.
- If you are not know what are you doing probably wont accomplish anything.
- For this to work both side need to be adult in their emotion and thinking but this is a very rare situation.
- There is a chance if other side thinking you are being arrogant, manipulative or blaming other side.
In theory it is a basic and clever method but if you are dont know what are you doing it will be like landing a plane with written insturactions.
Itâs best to explain why whatâs your doing is not mansplaining. That always works.
The real answer is to leave. I donât think Iâve ever had a meaningful or productive conversation where any of these were used.
Though I can see stonewalling being used in earnest.
Itâs best to explain why whatâs your doing is not mansplaining. That always works.
If somebody accuses you of mansplaining, there is nothing you can do. that makes this so toxic as an argument. It's basically saying "Whatever you are saying or want to say is worthless because of your gender". I know that mansplaining is in theory a specific kind of disrespectful explaining, but in too many cases it's used to deflect valid arguments. If someone is acting like that, the only way is to not interact further.
Yeah that top part was a joke.
It would be like asking a woman if itâs her time of the month or if sheâs PMSing. Itâs aggressively devalidating and at that point thereâs nothing to say.
Stonewalling is probably the best only one on that list where a response would actually make anything better.
tell her to calm down, she is being hysterical
Respond with a strong assertive wave of the hand and a firm "silence women"
âMen are speakingâ emphasised with a pat on the bottom.
Probably that time of the month
And then suggest the Edwardian era cure for hysterical women: orgasm.
Well it's either you or her. Get better at communicating or tell her to figure out her shit.
Or both. It could be both. Really, its usually both.
Stop talking to them altogether, I guess. Assuming you're not a habitual manipulator using these tactics.
You post all your relationship problems to 4chan, then enjoy your miserable life
yo, did the fucking misogyny of 4chan get exported with this post or why are u all acting like chuds rn??
There's like 2 misogynistic comments in a sea of genuine advice and they're both pretty obviously sarcasm
yo, did the fucking sense of humour of reddit get exported with this comment or why are u all acting like the comedy police rn??
"I am only misogynistic for the JOKE bro, geez"
Lmao, imaging only now discovering how jokes work.
Right, just like the_donald was totally only le funny jokes. And not a beacon for real fashs to meet at.
Youâre comparing one of the largest right-wing political movements in reddit history to a greentext post on lemmy. You can downvote me as much as you like but for your own mental health, please go outside.
Outrage over pointing out analogies gotta be one of my favourite online cop outs lmao
Thatâs a comparison, not an analogy. You need to work on your grasp of nouns, champ.
You new to greentext or what?
It's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek.
The funny thing is when people say "you're gaslighting me", but actually you're the one being gaslit.
Really the problem with things like this is just when they're used in bad faith to gain rhetorical advantage. It's fine to say something to the effect of:
"I believe you're gaslighting me. Here's what I remember happening, and here's some supporting evidence. What you're saying is that it didn't happen that way. If your intention is not to intentionally try to mislead me about how things occurred, can you explain?"
But just saying "You're gaslighting me" when really what's happened is that the way things actually happened is inconvenient to their argument - that's the issue. It all comes down to their motivation
Real gaslighters LOVE the opportunity to further twist facts, or maybe its compulsion. Its better to either disengage entirely or focus on one or two key points their bullshit cannot change
Therapyspeak is a weaponized toolkit for typically BPD/sociopaths/narcissists to manipulate the situation into them always being right, and the only person whose thoughts and feelings and intentions matter.
It is extremely unforunate that this is the case... but it is the case.
Here's a maybe relatable shit test:
Are you having conversations with a person that resemble diatribes/debates from SexPestiny or Thor/PirateSoftware?
They conceed a point, and then immediately minimize it, flip to another rheotrical/emotional attack angle where they are the victim or you are the perpetrator, never actually allowing anything approaching a consensus as to the actual facts of the matter, all stated together?
Yep, that's a sociopathic narcissist that put a bunch of skill points into therapyspeak/debate rhetoric.
They're grandiose, and slippery; they'll do anything to avoid someone else being able to nail down the actual factual foundations of their argument or perspective.
They do this because they must maintain narrative control/framing, everything is a battle of image and reputation, not the actual things that those originate from... thats both their strategy and just part of how their brains work.
They're essentially incapable of realizing or fully processing that they've made a substantial error, and they're also basically just not capable of separating 'how they felt about something' from 'something'; at best this is enormously difficult for them, as they have very poor ability to regulate their emotions.
My ex-boss was like this. I felt so much better after he was gone, that is how I realized what a massive piece of shit he really was. My job and life were suddenly much easier, my mental health got much better, and I could think a bit clearer.
We've unfortunately built a society, in the US at least, that literally rewards and promotes sociopathy with money.
These people lie and tell you we live in a meritocracy, which itself is gaslighting.
Sociopaths 'overperform' in most kinds of careers, because they're so manipulative.
Ok, so a lot of us agree on these basic facts, that there is this things wrong with the world, and we need a community that is an anti-venom to it.
Also, hi! You are kind of my favorite Lemmy person for some reason.
I feel like a lot of people on lemmy, a lot of reddit refugees... well basically they seem like 10 year younger versions of me, or something similar.
Thus... well fuck, psychoanalyzing myself a bit: I'm basically trying to be the dad or I guess just any kind of actual postitive mentor I wish I'd had, when I say things like this.
'Its dangerous to go alone, read this!'
But yeah, laughter can help, and is a good part of any kind of discussion of the insane bullshit in this world... it doesn't have to be just always jokes all the time, as s coping mechanism... it can be sanity-affirming for a blunt autist such as myself to just wholly explain the nonsense.
That being said: I'm not infallible. Ideally, don't believe a thing I say, verify it.
You have to disengage once you know they're actually doing it. Same with any manipulative behavior. But if you're really not sure, I've had luck pressing them on why what they've said doesn't make logical sense. If they can't support it, I can dismiss it and disengage.
I've never really understood gaslighting.
Yes I know the original definition.
Yes I know the phrase is overused to describe behaviour it really doesn't apply to.
I just cant imagine someone actually planning to manipulate someone in this way.
So my father did it, and I don't think it was intentional, the big thing was that his perspective was to be treated as objective fact in discussions in which he was a part. You could say something like "I'm cold" and he'd respond with "it's not cold" in a frustrated tone. The long and short of it in how it fucked me up is that I struggle to trust my own subjective reality and feel the need to get permission to feel things. That can be a real problem when it comes time to form and maintain boundaries for example.
Interesting.
That particular example is often a subject of discussion in our house.
The preface is, im absolutely aware that an individuals experience is what matters, rather than my perspective. For example, if a 10 year old child says they're very worried about a truck they left at the park, its not helpful or relevant that my own stresses and concerns are more impactful - like I lost my job and cant pay the mortgage, what matters is that the child is distressed.
That said, my partner and I often bicker about whether "it's cold".
We have twins, who are toddlers. Shes from the "fully dressed in warm clothes at all times" school of parenting, while my approach is... less prescriptive.
Obviously if a child told me they're cold i wouldnt simply tell them that its not cold, but give them some warmer clothes.
Another point of contention in our house is the heater. We live in a temperate climate and the cost of heating is a significant component of the household budget.
My partner tends to run the heater more often than I would, but often times shes wearing a thin nightgown. Not surprisingly, the accepted approach in most households is to put on more clothes if you're feeling cold, but of course you can turn on the heater if you're still cold.
Im really just trying to figure out whether I am in fact a gasslighting asshole, given your example đ
I suppose a disagreement around use of a heater is not at all the same as telling someone whether "its cold".
My partner's mother gaslights a lot. Think about scenario: She does something wrong, she backs off from situation for a few days to allow memories to wane a bit, then grabs the weakest link and starts bending the truth to paint herself in a bit better light at worst, and at best, shift whole fault on another person. She focuses on small, easily misremembered parts of story, and if you call her bullshit, she will accuse you of either not remembering or twisting it against her.
And she did that to my partner for their whole childhood and now my partner fights depression and lack of feeling of self worth. Also reacts to "I remember it differently" with aggression, which bites me in the ass but at least shields her from her mother.
I grew up with another gaslighter, my granny, who reframed and twisted everything to be my mothers fault and if she tried to defend then it was her remembering wrong, "not seeing such simple stuff" or being against granny. She did so with malice and ruined my mothers mental health. Same with her (granny's) husband, who literally hanged himself.
Both cases were narcissistic but I can see someone using it out of other reasons.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people think of gaslighting as if it were intentional, but when I have encountered gaslighting, it has usually come from people who have a different view of events and are unwilling to accept that their viewpoint isn't the absolute truth of the situation.
They will argue from the viewpoint of "the way I remember things is the way things happened".
Then when you say that they are gaslighting you, they will say that they are not.
In their mind, they're just telling the truth of events as they remember them, no malice intended.
Gaslighting includes the intention to mislead, leading to another person doubting their own reality. It's a real thing some people do. When you're experiencing it, you're forced into cognitive dissonance as the reality you experience doesn't line up with what another person claims.
That's what gives nuance to the concept. Not all lies are gaslighting. Misremembering isn't gaslighting. It requires a denial of reality that leads to another person second-guessing their own experiences. Gaslighting rarely occurs as a one-off event, it's part of a recurring campaign that slowly changes how a victim perceives their own reality.
It's okay to have difficulty imagining it. In fact I'd say you've been fortunate not to be exposed to it. Just be aware of it in case you ever find yourself in a relationship where it applies.
If you don't hear it often? Sans gaslighting, "maybe you need it then".
Always rethink your position and switch PoV for the other side for a bit mentally. But if you get back to where you are, feel free to feel attacked lol. Mostly due to phrasing. This is accusation, and accusations aren't thrown out of good will.
With gaslighting, just wave your hand, say whatever and change topic. Either you got too emotional and focused on needing to win, or the other person is willing to throw anything at you because they feel attacked and already full on with defence. No moving there either way. Just drop it and move on.
In this biz these are known as "thought-terminating clichés."
We need the wikipedia page for it on speed dial. Everyone uses them. I especially hate the "let's see you do better" for art.
it's very important to begin your response with the word
Axxxxually......
There is some context missing which makes it hard to give solid advice.
I do think, though, that the internet probably isn't the best place to seek relationship advice unless you have already made up your mind that you're leaving and you just need the final push.
Usually by doing all of those things even more, as far as I can tell. Bonus points if you posted yourself on LinkedIn wearing a âthis is what a feminist looks likeâ t-shirt.
You are a big girl, use proper words.
Psychology can be the worst coercion tactic since you can hardly criticise it.
Like seriously, how do you even respond to "You need to love yourself!" when it's used as an attack. When you highlight that it's controlling behaviour to psychologise, you can always receive the response that your critical remark, phrased as deflection, is a sign of distrust in psychology or distrust in general and that that is a sign that your pathology runs even deeper, which makes the original attack even more correct.
Leave psychology to those who have actually read the books and the modicum of social skills needed to empathise.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but love bombing sounds pretty nice.
Love-bombing a love-bomber can get epic, but then there's the fallout when the one drops the act and is terrified by the possibilities that: you weren't acting, you were just matching their energy and can meet them down in the trenches before they can actually drag you down, and/or you knew what they were up to and refuse to be made to have a problem with it(see "weren't acting").
Now you're stuck with a bait-and-switcher who cannot grasp that you might not be pulling the same trick they just failed to land.
If this sounds like a lot of drama and a massive pain, it is, and that's why its not recommended over disengaging once you've realized what's happening.
Sometimes I wish I could take psychopathy for a test drive, just to see what it's like to be emotionally invulnerable for a day. This is the kind of thing I'd want to do.
Psychopathy? Autism? BPD?
I stay medicated and too busy doing right by my family to dwell on it, but I have enough emotional depth that I sometimes wonder if I didn't just decide to try to think and act like an unhinged psychopath one day(WAY before I met my wife...) in the hopes of avoiding abuse & despair. I'll tell you this much: Whatever the case, that last part definitely didn't work-out.
I know enough about psychopathy specifically to know it would be interesting to try for a few hours, but longer than that it might ruin my life. My sense of empathy often gives me grief, but it serves a purpose.
Same. Some days, my sense of "this is not right, people should not do this, I should not do this" is preventing me from doing really stupid things.
Besides, what if you did something ethically bad and get away with it, and then the empathy comes back? Wouldn't you just hate yourself that you scammed an old lady of her retirement money and destroyed some poor kid's future for minor personal gain on the way home?
I think itâs only called that when itâs being used to manipulate you, paradigm case being an abuser who swears they didnât mean to they love you so much they werenât thinking straight please say you love me
find a non hysterical woman who can use better logic to explain why she is upset with you
that said if it was just one of these things you may be doing it
lord help you if it really is all 4 and you canât tell
who am I kidding, tell the bitch to get back in the kitchen
