Rimu
Anti-social mediaBanning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
This framing makes regulating Big Tech sound reasonable. But the true lokening here is to embrace a federated web.
should be looking into whos BACKING THESE bans, : its mostly the tech companies doing this.
Based
100% what the lady said.
In most countries, governments protect citizen rights in 'public' or governmental spaces. Private spaces, like those owned by corporations are subject to far fewer protections.
As the world has grown more developed and more privatized, what is the worth of your rights, if nearly everywhere is now considered a private space and thus not subject to those rights?
I think part of a government's job should be ensuring that 'public' spaces still exist and that they exist in the forms and mediums most relevant to the culture and technology of the day.
The internet needs spaces that our rights are fully present for and that aren't subject to the whims of a private corporation.
The internet needs spaces that our rights are fully present for and that aren’t subject to the whims of a private corporation.
Exactly. Websites like Reddit and Facebook have gobbled up a huge part of the internet and are essentially the virtual public space. I got banned from Reddit for bullshit reasons and there is absolutly no recourse. Appeals are just closed without anyone really looking at them. Making a new account is next to impossible.
Outlaw collection, aggregation and sharing of personal data. This will make these harmful spaces unprofitable.
I think most will agree that „think of the children” is a bs excuse, but if we know this then we shouldn’t debate this but the real reason behind enforcing verification of age, citizenship and people actually being people and not bots.
We’re being overran by LLM bullshit and we’re already overran by political actors astroturfing. We need a way out and that’s the only actionable solution on the table.
Unfortunately, it also conveniently hands tools for suppression of opinions to anyone who might be interested in that...
Given the resurgence of authoritarianism, I'm not sure that's a reasonable trade at all.
That would be a concern always regardless of who is in power. I already outsourced military, police and healthcare to my government, I can deal with them taking care of checking if people online are people.
We don't need to ban social networks. We need to ban algorithms on them.
That alone will make social networks bearable and safe for most people.
God, open and fully transparent algorithms with good defaults and the ability to switch between them and fine tune them would go so hard.
Uhhh, being able to import your own algorithm would create an open source library of good algorithms ... that'd be the dream.
I like Estonia
I'm down with an Estonia Age
Mossad doesn’t want that
Do both!
You can't ban kids without having age verification, which is a threat to all of us.
Unless perhaps kids weren't given access to the same technological tools that adults are.
Why not both?
Because digital age verification is a privacy and security nightmare for everyone. It's not the same as showing your drivers licence to get into a night club. It would be more equivalent if the nightclub checked everyone's details, and then also registered those details in a clipboard that they left hanging on the wall next to the night club in partial view of the bouncer.
Arguably even if they could patch all the security and privacy holes in their implementation of age verification, it's still a flawed system, just like age verification when entering a nightclub or buying alcohol. Underage people still get into nightclubs and buy alcohol just by looking older than they are and the same is true for access to social media. Even when the sites are checking everyone, underage people are still getting in. In Australia's implementation it's something like 80% of children are still able to access social media but now the social media sites have access to even more of our personal data.
Social media sites have created unsafe places for minors. It's clear they are unable to control entry of either the minors or predators, so they should be responsible for moderation of their digital spaces and the outcomes of not ensuring that moderation. If they can't meet that requirement then maybe they shouldnt be allowed to operate.
True, I guess I'm still holding out for that zero knowledge age verification. If I could just give the bouncer a slip that says "this person is old enough to party" they could staple that slip to their nightstand for all I care.
I don't see it technically being impossible to implement like that. Let's hope this age verification kerfuffle either dies down or shows us how you could tackle this without disrespecting all our privacy.
I think the bigger problem is that we are implementing a system that has been proven to be ineffective at solving the problem, yet the world is plowing ahead. All we've achieved is removing the liability for social media site operators. They can run cess pools of misinformation and child predation and wash their hands and say "whelp, the kids shouldn't be there, we have government approved age verification (also until thats proven to be zero knowledge we have even more personal data to use for marketing and sell on the data broker market)."
Nah that's a flawed analogy. It's not like them having the clipboard partly visible. It's more akin to them photocopying your ID just to enter the nightclub. Even if the data quickly finds its way into a safe in the boss' office, it's total BS that they have that level of detail stored anywhere. Any serious breach of security will provide attackers with enough information to fully impersonate anyone who has ever visited the club.
... That is still fully separate from the also wholly valid question of, "what if this night club is suddenly deemed illegal?" Suddenly, everyone who legally visited may get a visit from the gestapo.
It doesn't take ANYONE DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL for such a mindset and set of rules to never the less become very problematic.
People who want to nanny others' behavior to such a degree are ALL Nazi-level pieces of shit, whether or not they understand that fact.
You also can't guarantee that that the bosses safe is actually safe. Is it a safe in his office or in some building in Russia that he sends all the photocopies to by snail mail? Is the safe actually a safe and not just an unlocked filing cabinet in the alley behind the nightclub with a sign on it saying "free ID photocopies"? Are the photocopies also put in folders with a record of all your drink preferences, conversations, conversation metadata and which songs you danced to with all the folders photocopied, submitted to the government for citizen profiling and then sold on the black market for profit by the night club owner?
You're still kinda' missing the point. It doesn't require any of that to never the less be a gross violation of privacy.
All of that is merely icing on the cake as to why this crap is a disgusting invasion of privacy and an untenable removal of freedom to associate.
Even if they had perfect security on the gathered data, it is STILL a disgusting violation.
I said "also", that point is not lost on me.
The new EU age verification app was hacked within 2 minutes. That's why. All this chat control and age verification bullshit combined with AI, is a disaster.
https://cybernews.com/security/eu-age-verification-app-hack/
Social media demonstrably harms adults and society, so yes, both please.
No age verification!
When has abstinence at large worked?
