Human nature
(midwest.social)
A404 to 
Flippanarchy
maybe they care
It's not that humans are inherently evil, it's that inherently evil humans exist.
The main problem is that enough people believe the lies the evil ones tell them and let them have power to fuck everyone.
Humans are tribalistic animals, and that trait is part of why it's so easy for horrible people to convince others to do horrible things.
A quote from Dune if I recall correctly is power attracts the corruptable, not exactly that it corrupts. So not that humans are evil but we offer positions that shouldn't be given to anyone that wants it. Mean okay I'm sure there's good people that try for elected positions for sure.
Also quote from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, no one that seeks power should be given it. Or similar was in reference to who they elect president.
While hitchhiker's guide is comedy I think it holds well, people who seek power want to abuse it. People resultant to accept a position may be better to administer. I think, while quite different moods in their texts, they were saying the same thing. One (quite boring and dry, no pun intended, at first read) another just silly with some commentary on life.
Funny how that works cause you'd think democracy would weed others out. But gestures to democracies these days we see how things work with media manipulation. I think the hitchhiker's guide worked and well was made due to the education of the author.
So why the eff aren't we supporting system where we can cultivate ideas to improve ourselves rather than hearing media tell us not to like someone who is probably cool anyways?
Yes a north american view but right wing has been spreading and all.
I'd love it if campaigning was outlawed. You get a list of candidates and their voting history on key issues.
If people had actually looked at her voting records, Harris would have been a great choice. Her Senate voting history is pretty damn close to Bernie's.
But for some reason people still listen to campaign messaging even though it's well known politicians lie through their teeth to get elected.
Thats why no man should have power over others.
Hard agree! Unless it's me of course, because my right is more right than others.
Jokes aside, it's obvious that power structures arrise in nature like cancer in a body. The socialy disadvantegous take over, and cannibalize everything.
A holocracy perhaps? I still don't have more than a vague concept of what could be attempted. I know that self-sufficiency is GOOD, and I want to encourage it asmuch as possible.
This prevents leverage and exploitation of you and your neighbours.
This, however, does not mean standing idly aside, as someone else gets exploited. It should be an ethic to help your neighbour to the point where they can be self-sufficient, as this protects YOU from them turning on you in desperate times.
Yeah, it would be great if people stopped being dicks, but don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen.
The problem is that people that want power will find ways to get power even if there's no established structures that give people power.
How do you prevent that from happening?
Establish customs and structures that prevent power. It needs vigilance. There's evidence that before agriculture some humans exhibited "reverse dominance hierarchy," where if someone tried to assert dominance, the group would team up and ostracise, exile, or execute them.
So all I gotta do is be the person delegated to the vigilance task and I'm golden for a takeover
Zapatistas frequently rotate roles. There are no professional police or politicians.
No no of course not, it'll only take a minute, and hey, I did such a good job with food distribution I can do it again if you want....
AFAIK, they aim so that every single person is rotated to every role (and only hold those roles for weeks before being rotated out); it's not like an election thing; it's more like a duty that everyone has to do. Whatever they're doing has been working for 3 decades.
Democracy and the separation of power is such a structure that we already have. It works perfectly fine if "the group would team up" and vote people that try to assert dominance out.
We're just missing the "customs" that would make people do just that, and the question is how to establish this custom.
It was already clear that we need customs that make people not give other people power, the question that I posed was how to start those customs you talk about.
Yeah, I think the current consensus is dual power and wait until it's either strong enough or the state is weak enough to revolt.
An active community of hunters, trained to recognize and hunt down such menaces.
Shunning, exile, and other more usual ordinary consequences.
"people that want power will find ways to get power"
nah. probably not.
So how exactly do you think this all started in the first place? We didn't start out with people in power...
Well, there might need to be an equal and opposite reaction in order to keep it in check. If some people are just inherently evil and desire power over others, then I imagine there would also be inherently good people and desire to protect others.
I don't think you can "prevent" this outright. That's why there's talk of "vigilance" and being "watchful" when it comes to government/democracy.
I absolutely agree with you, but this requires people to mostly think like that. And if people already mostly think like that, then it is actually almost completely irrelevant what political system we have. The question is how to establish such a mindset in most people.
Hmmm.. idk if "establishing a mindset in people" is viable tho. That kinda sounds like "make them think a certain way". I'm reminded of the adage you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink you know?
People arent born seeking power. That is an idea they get at a certain point. Why? Can we not nuture people away from this path?
How do you know your first sentence is true?
"Goo goo gaa gaa I want to have power over others" is no one's first sentence. Its an idea you have to learn at some point
No one's first words are "goo goo gaa gaa I want to put my penis in your pussy" and for some reason humans still manage to figure that one out like 12 years later without explicitly being taught it.
Just because something is not immediately apparent in a baby does not mean that it isn't innate.
Abolish the concept of power
You can't abolish thoughts. That's why the "war on terror" will never be won.
You also can't abolish things without a power structure to enforce it.
You can't abolish thoughts
Uh, sort of. You can human thoughts anyway. Just look at mars.
Crazy how we have a phrase like "power corrupts" yet refuse to treat it as a mental illness.
We are being ruled over by power addicts
just one more power bro i swear i'll stop if i just get one more power bro i swear
Its just perfectly normal healthy paranoid pedophilic blood cults with measurably less of several kinds if intelligence than baseline. I dont see why you have tocall them mentally ill.
Power corrupts, but we can't just make power disappear... The only logical solution is to spread it as thinly as possible amongst everyone, so it corrupts as little as possible. Ergo, anarchy.
Yeah, but humans like efficiency and delegation, so eventually that power coagulates
What if instead we totally alienated a bunch of the worst people to ever exist from any consequence, built society on appeasing them at any cost, and then murdered everyone who wanted anything else,though?
I personally think thats a much better idea, and will murder you if you dont agree.
"Human History, a Summary"
No. Read graeber.
Lol usually I'm the one telling others to read Graeber.
Here's the thing, that kinda is part of human history. It is how we ended up in the society we live in today. All of these countries exist because they killed or subjugated everyone else who said otherwise.
Yes, Graeber exposes that other societies have existed and can potentially exist but that doesn't negate the history that led us to today.
Part of it. So is the steam engine.
All hietory led us to today. The most recent proximal cause is not totality.
No one is saying totality. Do you not get that "a summary" means "condensed and excluding details"?
A summary of human history:
Steam engine go brrrrrrrrr
I mean, there's an argument for lottery representation to centralize enough power (government) to stomp any other spikes of power (corporations)
Isn't it Athens version of Denocracy rather? Everyone gets a vote and all that?
Green on the topic of anarchy I shall add xD
I talked about anarchism with someone recently, and "evil people" was their main argument.
I've been thinking about it a lot. My point of view is that power structures give those evil people an unmatched oportunity to gain power over others. I think most of them are in politics, be it in democracy or authoritarian regimes. They are the best at climbing hierarchies and have the motivation to do so, unlike most people.
But still, it seems that having evil people in politics is somehow better than having to deal with them directly for a lot of people. It may be the fear of unknown - governments might do bad things on a much bigger scale, but at least they are predictable. That's just my interpretation though.
anarchism doesn't mean you can't get organised.
that said, it's pretty damned hard to defend against an attacking nation, if you don't have taxpayer funded hierachical military. hard doesn't mean impossible tho
Catalonia had an army.
That must be why they're still around, right?
The SDF is still around defending AANES in one of the most conflict-ridden regions of the world. They call themselves Democratic Confederalists rather than anarchists, but they are the nearest long-standing polity to anarchist ideals.
Yep, I believe the absolute majority of people in power are evil because evil people seek power.
No you dont undersrand! Everything i want is made of basement kids and if i dont get it ill be sad, but if i think about making it happen ill be sad.
So i need to make sure we all just agree that dping wjat the worst monsters we can find tell us to and and killing anyone who disagrees. You disagreeing makes me feel bad.
That attitude is a large part of the reason people turn against anarchy.
Turns out that's the flip aide of hack-choo-choo-choo-ally responsible.
America isn't Anarchic. Look what happened to what was declared the best since the worst. Drumroll.
That you should walk away from omelas instead of killing for it? Yeah. I get that.
I like the ones who stay and fight better.
Its the name of a parable/short story.
So is The Ones Who Stay and Fight.
No, I meant the being a condescending ass part.
I have othermodes of critique, but ecpect youd appreciate them even less.
The way you get people on your side is to win them over by educating them on the positives, not criticizing them.
Provably not.
Its the fear of the unknown. I had to deal with that too when I first learned about anarchism.
IA! Fthagn!!
Outsiders are Evil By Nature.
Insiders are Blessed By Their Commitment to The Tribe.
Dear Leader came to power by virtue of extraordinary merit and is the most capable tribesman in leading our Blessed In-Group against their Diabolical Out-Group. We give him our loyalty, our labor, and our wealth voluntarily, with the expectation that he will return it to us ten-fold.
And hey, look, the market is up! The Gods shine on our Glorious Hallowed Kingdom of The Virtuous And Just.
If we’re just making shit up then god says I’m in charge.
All hail lord doomer boomer!
My god what have I done…
Don't worry, the people in power are good. They said so themselves.
Not only them but also the journalists they paid so we have 2 independent sources
Sound like you're on the side of that. Good show, indeed.
I was talking with someone a while ago about anarchism and internet moderators. I said moderators shouldn't moderate based on their feelings, because power corrupts. Moderators should hold themselves to the rules, and be removed when they fail to do so. The other person said that the principle of free association means moderators can ban whoever they want, and putting limits on bans would be tyranny.
There's a recent song from Linkin Park about that guy. I think they're right and that he's not ackt-choo-choo-ally anarchic.
I mean, logic does that better butt...
