¯\-(ツ)-/¯
(midwest.social)
A404 to 
Flippanarchy
You can tell this is a work of fiction because ancap actually realises they're wrong in the end
I dont agree that we need money. Sure, we need money under todays machine, but the machine can be dissolved.
Money in its most basic form, is simply an IOU used to facilitate trade, instead of relying on a fractal of barter arrangements. Strip away all the systems and mechanisms we've surrounded it with, and I still don't see how you are going to replace that core functionality until a star-trek style post-scarcity is actually achieved.
Yeah getting rid of money is tricky if we're talking doing away with commodity production entirely, but as a point of transition to a purely production for use society with no exchange there are ideas of using labor vouchers instead.
It makes sense considering (in a Marxist economic sense) that value is socially necessary labor hours so you're eliminating some of the general glamour that money form provides, avoids concentration given how they're consumed on use, etc, and might be a good in-between step while things are still scarce (though it doesn't abolish value).
given how they’re consumed on use, etc
How's that supposed to work, really?
Suppose I've used some of my labor to produce widgets. You want a widget without having to make one yourself, so you give me some of your labor vouchers in exchange for it. And then the labor vouchers you gave me just ... go away? Seems like from my perspective, accepting labor vouchers as payment is worthless and I don't get anything out of it.
Nah, it'd be more akin to:
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You contribute labor to produce widgets that belong to social stock from the outset (the widget does not belong to you as private property)
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You receive labor voucher for your work which is a claim to a specific portion of consumer goods to satisfy your own needs
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Me, who has a labor voucher from different work walks into a distribution center and takes the widget, and the labor time worth of the widget gets subtracted from my voucher. That portion gets consumed permanently and doesn't go to anyone.
What you described was essentially a scenario where goods were still produced as commodities for exchange (generalized form being capitalism) or where private property still existed. In that case yeah, money remains necessary.
The labor vouchers are printed on delicious and expiring cheese.
The role of money is to create a trustless system. I think a trustful system would better serve us. We can do this through democratic confederalism, which is a system where communities of responsibilities collaborate without the need of money.
The role of money is not about trust, it's about simplifying exchanges. So if I'm a potato farmer in need of a chicken for dinner, I can just buy it from the chicken farmer. Without money, I would have to go to the chicken farmer, find out that he needs lumber, go to the sawmill, find out what he needs, and so-on until I find someone along the chain that actually needs my potatoes. That setup may be doable when we're just talking about potatoes, but how are you going to scale that up and keep track of it amongst the 1000 or so people directly involved in making your car?
Regardless of what is the main role of money, it still has the trustless characteristics which means that it is playing into the hands of might and machine. The more a society revolves around money, the better the position for might and machine.
In opposition to might, I believe it is better to figure how we become as little dependent on money as possible.
Just note that I am an ancarist, I believe in a society without cars. Or for that matter, any production that would require the structure of the machine. So Id be against asphalt, fertilizers, and sement to mention a few.
I believe in a society without cars. Or for that matter, any production that would require the structure of the machine. So Id be against asphalt, fertilizers, and sement to mention a few.
Sounds like what you are describing is doing away with modernity altogether. And that's where you lose me and probably most people on the planet. There's no way I'm going to endorse reverting back subsistence farmers. We already know that doesn't solve anything. Pre modern civilizations were far from peaceful utopias.
The difference is that we are now much more aware of diverse farming. Moving away from monoculture will strengthen both our ecosystems and humanity. If we cling to monoculture and oil, it will be our downfall.
what is an IOU?
Sorry, just an old-school acronym for "I owe you". An old
no taxation when we all work for the commen good and to provide for each other
If your country is a financial sovereign -ie has a monopoly over its currency - then taxation's only role is to create demand for that currency. If you don't pay taxes in the currency of your sovereign, it will throw you in jail. The concept of 'my tax dollar pays for your salary, Officer' is nonsense on a Federal level. The government democratically decides what projects it will finance, and the central bank pays the invoices thereof, with money it creates from thin air. People/companies accept the governments money for their service because they are assured the govenment will accept their taxpayments in the same currency.. That is how money enters the system, the sovereign creates it. But on a State level though 'my tax dollar' is very real, coz the State is not a financial sovereign! While a State can go broke a finan sovereign can never accrue real debt in its own coin unless it chooses so. To pay interest to the financial sector, or pay into pension funds. A budget deficit is actually wealth that a sovereign injects into its society not sth that needs paying back.
It's called MMT and you should study it.
NeoClassics say : the world has infinte resources, but.. there's not enough money. We have to get the money FIRST!!!
MMT says the inverse: money is created on 12 magic computers as Elon learned, thats easy. The hard part is finding the real resources. If they're scarce, what are our priorities as a demicracy ? That's the better question!
You dropped this mate \ try using two of them to get it to work.
Thanks, I fixed it 👍
The conclusion of this logic is that work is slavery, and taxation the tool to oppress it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
