Sunshine
Buy EuropeanA further 58 per cent indicated it was a proposal worth exploring further
Honestly i find it funny. Lets add australia and New Zeeland too! Britain leaves the union "to have trade deals with australia" then australia joins the EU. Would be the funniest shit ever
I think you give too much credit to the morons who voted for economic suicide. They didn't vote to have deals with Australia, they all thought we were so big and important that the EU would bend over backwards to give us a favourable trade deal even though every single expert on the subject disagreed. The Australia and Canada deals came up only after we shot ourselves in the head.
I didnt give any credit to the morons voting for economic suicide. But i pitty them for all they fell for.
Charles de gaule said it best "britain will see the european community only as replacrment to its dying empire and wont ever dedicate itself to it"
de Gaulle*
^(Mnemotechnic : one L for may 1968 and one L for french Algeria /s)
He's the one who gave up the idea of French Algeria, but ok I guess.
His messaging wasn't exactly super clear in the beginning, which caused a few issues that we are still taught about in history class to this day though.
Still have respect for the man for resisting the Nazis and staying true to his word on many very significant occasions (like resigning after losing the referendum in 68) and having seen clearly through the USA's intentions, hence the /s.
Yes, what we need is more bureaucracy and endless layers of useless people.
I'm in! Tax me baby!
I'm up for it just to trigger and over power Trump's permanent term
That would be so cool
Real Americans support this.
United earth? Lol
Earth Union
A Super Earth, if you will.
A united federation of planets, if you will.
Non-hysterical Countries Union?
Some kind of North Atlantic Trade Organization?
Or how about my favourite game title from the 90s that I never played: Federation of Free Traders
Ok, but besides the bylaws, treaties, & other whathaveyous, afaik Canada has systems (trades, standards) way close to USA than to continental European countries. From the integration pov this would be a giant task. And if Canada would gain significant power (which it would) a lot more of "USA" things & ways of life would leak to "euEU".
It's a very complex hypothetical question that can hardly be judged via sentiment tracking at "this stage" (which isn't even a stage).
Nevertheless positive responses are very nice, yay friends!
"yay natural resources!" -The other side
Canada is not geographically eligible to join the EU by definition. The founding treaties would need to be rewritten and re-signed by all parties, which does not seem feasible short-term. The way more likely route is more trade agreements and such, which would indeed be good for everyone
Also, being in the EU means meeting a lot of product, drug, food, etc. safety standards.
Just to pick one, to meet electricity standards, Canadian outlets would have to accept Type C Europlug devices and supply them with 230V at 50 Hz. That would mean redoing the entire Canadian electrical grid in a way that would make it incompatible with the American one. I don't think that's realistic.
More realistic is some variation of the deal that the EU has with Switzerland. Not in the EU but lots of bilateral deals that mostly make the border disappear for travellers.
Ireland is in the EU (and the UK was too) and their sockets don't accept Type C either.
Well they do share a border with France, in the loosest sense
Fortunately, in the post-truth world we no longer have to be limited by the meanings of words or historical precedent. We can simply redefine geography whenever it suits us, others are already doing so with impunity. If the Gulf of Mexico can become the Gulf of America and South America can become the United Colonies of America, then why can't Canada become Europe? Nobody gives a fuck anymore. This isn't about getting marked correctly on an assignment, this is about survival in the face of the collapse of world order and building a fortress around social democracy before it's divided and conquered.
Did you really just "vibe-contract" geopolitics?
No, Trump did that. Technically Putin got the ball rolling by unilaterally annexing Crimea, and China's been flirting with it for years over the South China Sea and Taiwan. This is the future of geopolitics whether you like it or not.
I don't think there is an actual definition of European state in any of the EU documents, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Actually, you are right and I'm mostly wrong. The Maastricht Treaty just says:
Any European State which respects the principles set out in Article 6(1) may apply to become a member of the Union. It shall address its application to the Council, which shall act unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the assent of the European Parliament, which shall act by an absolute majority of its component members.
So, what is a "European State" is effectively just a political decision by the Council and Parliament. I guess if Cyprus and Armenia were considered "European States" then Canada is not that big of a stretch.
Additionally, the next paragraph is
The conditions of admission and the adjustments to the Treaties on which the Union is founded, which such admission entails, shall be the subject of an agreement between the Member States and the applicant State. This agreement shall be submitted for ratification by all the contracting States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements.
Soo I guess even the Maastricht treaty allows itself to be modified, maybe removing the "European" criteria completely.
So it's not as difficult as I first imagined, it's just a question of political will from Canada and the EU institutions.
It has been tested and Morocco didn't make the cut. I think it'd be a tough sell to argue Canada does when Morocco doesn't.
Canada technically administers a small parcel of land in France, and Canada has a land border with an EU state.
I do think that if Canada was genuinely prepared and unambiguously politically willing to join the EU, that the rules would get rewritten. Canada would be the 4th largest economy in the EU.
I think any hesitation on the EU side would be basic trust that they aren't going to get jerked around by another primarily English speaking country, or have the country fall prey to unsavoury North American politics. I feel like Canada would need to do some PR work to distance ourselves from the UK and USA.
That application was in 1987. A lot has changed. In 1987 Spain only just joined (1986). There has been for a very long time dispute about the Western Sahara, occupied by Morocco and from where a lot of previous inhabitants/resistance have since lived in Spain. It was at that time and I think it still is also just an easy excuse to not include an officially Muslim country. And a Moroccan border would be a lot harder to guard against than current borders. Little of this kind of stuff with Canada, they'd just blab about historical ties and historical times requiring historical steps etc and make it happen. Biggest obstacle would be Hungary, USA, Russia, not geography.
I don't think France or, when they were part of it, UK, ever got the memo. Heck even Spain really.
Unless you're going to tell me South America is geographically available while Canada isn't.
I mean everyone would have to agree if Canada wanted to join anyways, so if Canada wants to join and the EU want to ever let another country join they will have to form consensus sooner or later
The br*tish would be so mad hahaha
That should be more than enough reason to do it.
Realistically though, if it did happen, it would make it much easier for the UK to get back into the EU.
Can you elaborate?
Make UK great again - MUGA
Yes, but also Canada in Eurovision.
What chance do the Europeans have against Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, Shaniah Twain, and Ted Cruz?
Are you forgetting Canada's greatest export, Barenaked Ladies?
Celine Dion won it for Switzerland, if memory serves correctly
Avril lavine, NEIL YOUNG, rush
Robin Sparkles!🎭🎉🍾
Canenter, Canentrance, Can'entree?
Canter, Cantrance, Cantree.
Can'En-route
I tried to make it work in both French and English.
Canjoin
We should develop much closer commercial and other ties (eg regulatory) with the EU but Canada should not outright join. We don't need the Euro and we don't need the European Stability and Growth Pact. Lower as many barriers, but we have to keep control of our basic economic policy levers.
Edit: by the way, after looking it up, I'm finding that EU rules about "State Aid" would make the new NDP platform (Avi Lewis campaigned on public options and Crown corporations for various sectors, and buy-canadian rules to protect workers during the green transition) infeasible. So... no, I'm not interested in joining an economic bloc that makes democratic socialism functionally impossible.
Adopting the Euro isn't a requirement, so kinda a weird thing to say.
With precedent of an opt-out clause.
There are plenty of reasons to join or not join a union of any kind.
"But Canada would be forced onto the Euro" to me reads as straight propaganda because it acts directly as an identity wedge. This is even before it not being strictly true.
If you're concerned about Canada joining the EU, you can merely state that article 49 restricts membership to European states, and it has already been tested by Morocco.
The Danish opt out is not a precedent, it was grandfathered in when the 1992 Maastricht treaty was signed. The same treaty requires all new members to eventually join the euro once the convergence criteria are satisfied.
And chill it with the propaganda accusations. Some times people actually know what they're talking about and poisoning the conversation with bad faith accusations of some hidden propaganda agenda is just fucking toxic.
I don't need "identity" issues to argue against the EU. My actual deepest objections stem from the State Aid EU rules that make democratic socialist policies impossible. I just voted for Avi Lewis to lead the NDP and his public option policy proposals are literally illegal in the EU framework. That's my actual argument against joining a constitutionally neoliberal economic bloc. If the EU tomorrow abolished those rules I would have less of a problem.
Edit: the Euro and the SGP are also problems. Even Trudeau's moderate deficits would have not been allowed under the SGP. And pegging to the Euro doesn't make that much sense either, especially when we have Dutch disease in Alberta and we're generally a materials exporter. My disagreement is economic not identitarian. I'm a dual EU citizen for fucks sake.
For the record, what makes it smell like propaganda is that I actually do think you're very aware of the pros and cons, and that you keep leading with the currency argument when it's by far the weakest argument. It's the most emotionally persuasive argument,however, because it's suggesting Canadians part with a tangible everyday item. People were flustered losing the penny. It pulls emotional levers that simply are not pulled by things like budget deficits and Dutch elm disease. It pulls emotional levels that need not be pulled or even approached because the point is settled already by Article 49. I think you absolutely know all of this, and that is my point.
You seem very invested in making me out to be a manipulator. I can't prove to you that I'm not an elephant.
Poland doesn't use the Euro either
...yet. They're forced to adopt it sooner or later.
Only Denmark is exempted from adopting it ever.
I think later is gonna be 22nd century or later at this point 😂
Similar to the deal the UK got?
The UK was in, fucked up and crashed out. It also has some very weird peculiarities due to the Good Friday Agreement.
I suspect a version of the Swiss model is probably best for Canada, with high integration and Schengen membership but done very granularly on a bilateral basis.
Edit, I changed my mind, see above.
It makes sense because right now UE is running so smooothly. Everyone interests are aligned.
That would be wonderful!
How hard is it to move a country to get it into the EU?
Assuming you don't have a couple hundred million years.
Well, we're already only 20km away from France, south of Newfoundland. And share a little land border with Greenland.
Greenland is part of the Danish kingdom but it's not in the EU unfortunately.
It kinda makes sense when you thinkabout greenland.
It would if Greenland were in the EU. And it's odd that it isn't. But Greenland isn't "part of" Denmark. They form a union along with the Faroe Islands and chose to leave the EU.
They chose in very different times.
I bet Greenland would totally join the EU nowadays.
Canada joining the EU right before it dissolves would just be
What is kinda wild to me is that I have read about a dozen articles like this and not one of them actually indicates what benefit Canada would get from joining the EU, apart from 'we all know that America sucks', but being in the EU doesn't actually solve that either.
Some things I can think of:
It provides a better chance to mutually recognize education and professional experience. It helps with both our export markets to each other. It motivates us to improve our tax system and other archaic regulations. We have an easier time at border checkpoints and can more easily immigrate for work across continents. We can move to a Euro-pegged currency or the Euro itself if we so choose and meet the European fiscal standards.
We can improve Canada in any way we want. We don't need the EU to do that. There is nothing that stops us from recognizing EU credentials but ourselves.
I don't see how pegging the CAD to the Euro would be useful.
I agree on negotiating freedom of movement, potentially joining Schengen. Same for negotiating recognition of Canadian credentials in Europe although that's less of a problem, usually the other direction is the problem.
There are some ups and downsides to the member perks. As for the exchange rate, we could have a stable bloc rate rather than one that is more or less correlated to the price of oil or US events.
We can accept credentials but the bigger benefit is if the Bloc can accept Canadian ones, which is best achieve through agreement.
I think that joining the Schengen Area is inclusive of people's idea of "open to discussion of Canada joining Europe". Do we want or need to join the EU tomorrow? In my opinion not really but its a good time to foster a closer relationship and gradually remove barriers between Canada and the bloc.
not one of them actually indicates what benefit Canada would get from joining the EU
Do you just fundamentally not understand what the EU is, or are you looking for some specific details?
Weird that its hard for you you to understand what the question here is.
What is the benefit to Canada of joining the EU?
What benefit do any countries get from being in the EU? It'd be that.
Cool, so I can use my rail pass to go from Berlin to Ottawa?
You can't be this silly.
You get free, unrestricted access to the largest trade market (in terms of GDP per capita), not to mention access to billions upon billions of euros in grants.
You think those grants are free money? Countries pay into the EU's budget for them.
And that's the ONLY benefit?
One economic union without hurdles, freedom of movement inside the schengen area? Increased cooperation between other EU member states? Haven't you heard Carney's speech about middle powers?
Most Canadians probably don't want to have free movement of people
