How to protect your sexuality in Brazil
(midwest.social)
The Picard Maneuver
FunnyFunny, because straight men worry about whether they might be or might be perceived as being gay all the time.
23 + 1 assholes, totally not gay /s
Having candles on your birthday cakes at all is pretty gay at that age
I've never seen a sentence use the same dumb logic it criticizes so succinctly before
You don't have candles on your birthday cake just because you're grown up? What a sad life.
No homo, but I love to blow a big candle on my b-day.
Big candle sounds like a plausible euphemism like bull or twink.
It is an most joyful occasion for gaiety...
It’s a joke
Yep thanks, picked up on that, so was my reply. Whoosh, I guess.
Now over to Colin Poppshed at the Gay Desk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OMdPj3HXMgQ
“No homo but happy birthday! Anyway which one of you fellas is up for some hotdogs and whipped cream?”
Me: There's no way that's true
Me, after web searching: Huh...
Context: They have a betting game called "Jogo do bicho" (Animal game, direct translation). Number 24 corresponds to deer, which is "veado" in portuguese - which is very similar to"viado", which is a slur for gay people persons.
I still doubt these candles are popular though.
Number 24 corresponds to deer, which is “veado” in portuguese - which is very similar to"viado", which is a slur for gay people persons.
The slur isn't just similar to the name of the critter — it is the name of the critter. You also see people using "gazela" (gazelle), "Bambi" (that Disney critter), "biba saltitante" (jumping… "biba", dunno what was supposed to be) as slurs for gay people, always under the "flamboyantly jumping" stereotype.
The reason it gets spelled with an "i" is that slurs and swearing often get misspelled in Portuguese. It's the same deal with boceta→buceta (pussy), caralho→caraio→carai (dick), foder→fuder→fudê (to fuck).
Thanks for the explanation mate, that makes a lot more sense.
I'm portuguese and I always thought that veado was the word, just that "e" was "stressed" to sound like "i". I didn't know until today that there were actually two words
Some prescriptivists would argue "viado" isn't an actual word, and that even the slur should be spelled "veado". But just like "buceta" the misspelling has become way more popular than the original word.
The linguist in me now feels the same way about Brazilian profanity that the engineer in me feels about fighter jets
It gets weirder with expletives. Like "puta merda" whore shit and "merda do caralho" shit from the dick. They don't make sense at all, people simply chain whatever profanity they find to "express" their frustration. (And you can even combine them, as "puta merda do caralho" whore shit from the dick. Semantically it's nuts.)
It's only the same if you ignore Portuguese pronunciation, though, this is still some rightwing snowflake shit. Veado and viado will only sound the same if you speak some ignorant, backwater version of Brazilian Portuguese, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Viado e veado não soam igual, mano, esse é coisa de homens frágeis, eu não sei de que você tá falando. Deixe essa porra pros Bolsonaristas. Nem os tugas falam assim.
For people who might be tempted to trust the witch hunting liar above, check the transcriptions in Wiktionary for veado and viado. Both lists are incomplete but they already show, that what I'm saying is accurate, and that the user above is at the very least lying, if not worse (vomiting assumptions and re-eating their own vomit).
Also relevant to note I'm reporting words associated with prejudice. I'm not condoning their usage. The way I'm referring to gay people and their community ITT is consistently polite, even if I'm talking about a slur used to target those folks. Gay rights — much like trans rights — are human rights; rights depend on power, power depends on knowledge. That applies to slurs; one can only fight against prejudice if they know how it's conveyed, and how words associated with prejudice pop up.
It’s only the same if you ignore Portuguese pronunciation
Viado e veado não soam igual, [viado and veado don't sound the same]
Nem os tugas falam assim. [not even the Portuguese speak like this]
Portuguese pronunciation varies a lot depending on the region. There isn't a "single" one, like you're implying; that's fiction created by nationalists who believe languages should be homogeneous.
For "veado" you'll see the [e] being raised to [i] or [j] in three situations:
- Caipira, Paulistano, Sulista, Mineiro, Gaúcho dialects; mostly due to pre-stressed vowel raising. Typically people doing so also say "bisoro" (besouro), "tisora" (tesoura), "minino" (menino), "durmi" (dormir) and similar, as it's the same underlying change.
- Widespread across Portugal, but specially in the Centre and North. The fast prosody of unstressed syllables triggers diphthongisation, so you get something like ['jV] for more conservative [e.'V] and [i.'V].
- Speakers of many other dialects in fast speech. The underlying process is similar to the above.
You're lying.
this is still some rightwing snowflake shit
No, it is not. Learn to read then stop being a liar / an assumer.
But you know, what's rightwing shit? This:
Veado and viado will only sound the same if you speak some ignorant, backwater version of Brazilian Portuguese
You're oozing linguistic prejudice, rooted in nationalism (the myth of homogeneous language), further mixed with classism ("backwater"). What you're saying is the same as "my Reichsprache has a single pronunciation, everyone else is an ignorant degenerating it!", it doesn't get more disgusting than that.
so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
eu não sei de que você tá falando.
If you don't get what others say, you don't get to label it either, unless you're a disingenuous / assumptive piece of shit and deserve to be treated as such.
But the concept of honesty is a wee bit too complex for you, innit? Bloody hell.
Viado es veado. Fuck this
Even if it sounded different it wouldn't make a difference, because language is flexible and undefined, or are we going to take classes on how to talk "e" or "i" as well? I'm certain we need more of those 🙄
100% isso.
Em especial, essa "flexibilidade" aparece bastante pras vogais átonas, variam muito de acordo com o dialeto e o ritmo da fala. E ao contrário da variação nas consoantes, as pessoas não prestam muita atenção nelas.
I'm fairly sure what happened with "viado" in PT was just like "nigga" in English. In both you get a non-standard spelling of another word ("veado" and "nigger"), representing a popular pronunciation of the word (note African American English is non-rhotic, so ⟨er⟩ and ⟨a⟩ would sound both /ə/). But they still sound the same in those popular variations.
Pior que acho que o outro ali nem fala português. Ao menos, não proficientemente. Reparou como ele confundiu "esse" com "isso"?
as a Brazillian, I have never seen the correlation of the number 24 with "gayness"
É literalmente uma idiotice que tem aqui em Salvador (Não sei se surgiu aqui), vinte e quatro / vim de quatro
It's literally an idiocy that has here in Salvador (I don't know if it came from here), twenty-four / I came from four
They're popular enough for them to have been mass-produced, as opposed to, say, just writing the text on the cake with frosting.
Kind of funny someone is so self conscious about looking "weak" or whatever has a birthday cake with candles
Yes. He is a respected male now. He is 23+1, watch out! No one will mess with him as he sexuality is assured (sorry if I'm being too intense about this, I'm brazilian. I've noticed it doesn't make sense to people of other countries in the other commentary)
Brazil is a weird place.
Carnival makes up for it. There's more beauty to it than it seems at first glance.
Some introverts might think: "It's just an even larger assembly of people", but people are allowed to be weird and graceful.
That's not the reason though. 24 (vinte e quatro) is the gay number because it sounds like "vim de quatro" which means something like "I came on all 4s"
True
It's a very popular joke. I have no idea how many people take it seriously, since those would probably not say they do.
I imagine most people that buy a candle like that do it for somebody else's birthday to imply the other person is gay.
It's probably more of a joke.
Just going to say that looks way more gay than the number 24....
The more you try to avoid looking gay, the more gay you look. It's funny coming from a place as gay as Brazil.
If you’re not gay, you must prove it by wearing a birthday tiara and listening to nothing but Judy Garland the whole day.
Science be damned but this may actually be the one thing that CAN turn someone gay.
Like just thinking about it makes me happy.
Aside from the homophobia, they still get birthday cakes with candles that say their age when they are 24?
What else should they get? Birthday cakes with candles that say someone else's age? That wouldn't make any sense.
Only if you are gay.
/s in case someone misses the "homophobic-phobic" joke.
are you kidding? gran was a party animal. if she got them why wouldn't I?
Straight men have a 23+1 hr schedule every day. The extra hour is for secret gay time.
Can someone share some lore what is the connection between being gay and 24 in Brazil?
There's an illegal gambling game that has been extremely popular for decades called the animal game (jogo do bicho), in which each number represents an animal. 24 is the deer (veado). There's also a derogatory word for gay men, viado. The two words sound the same. So 24 is "the deer's number" but it sounds like "the fag's number".
Viado comes from desviado, which means someone who was driven off the proper path. It's just a matter of homophony (and homophobia).
homophonophobia?!
Wow it's like a homophobic lasagna. My heart goes out to you, gay Brazilians
This suggests widespread homophobia if enough of them could combine their brainpower to form these few thoughts
This suggests widespread homophobia if enough of them could combine their brainpower to form these few thoughts
Yup, that's accurate. Welcome to Latin America and its macho culture. People don't even get why those jokes are bad. Then when the LGBTQ+ community correctly points out that "a piada mata mais do que a bala" (the joke kills more often than the bullet), the default popular reaction is to claim "waaah they're overreacting" (spoilers: they aren't).
Luckily for us there's nothing gayer than working together, so we should be safe
Viado comes from desviado, which means someone who was driven off the proper path. It’s just a matter of homophony (and homophobia).
I've seen people backtracking the etymology to desviado and transviado. I don't buy it because clipping (truncamento) in Portuguese usually preserves the start of the word, even at the expense of the stressed syllable; e.g.
- universidade university → uni
- refrigerante fizz, soda, coke, pop → refri
- depressivo depressed → deprê
So following the same pattern for "desviado" the result would be *des or *desvi, not "viado".
The explanation may be as simple as that the word works better as an expletive by keeping the stressed syllable. All the examples you gave are "friendly" clippings but "viado" is derogatory.
I think it also applies to expletives. Check for example ⟨vagabunda⟩* /va.ga.'bũ.da/; if there was some pressure to keep the stressed syllable it would be clipped into *bunda or *gabunda, but it's usually clipped into ⟨vagaba⟩ instead. Technically the /b/ from the stressed syllable is still there, but the core /ũ/ ⟨un⟩ is gone.
*gotta explain this one to the folks here. "Vagabunda" means whore, promiscuous woman, etc. It's highly offensive, way more than the nearest English equivalent (slut), it's the sort of word to not use even in a joke. (The masculine "vagabundo" is depreciative but socially acceptable — it means lazy arse, do-nothing.)
There are other exceptions, though. Take the nickname for Fernanda, Nanda [nɜ᷈dɐ]
Nicknames are often erratic — cue to Juca (Joaquim), Chico (Francisco; no idea why the /ʃ/), Mafê (Maria Fernanda). I don't know why, but I feel like they work through a different logic than simple shortenings.
Good argument. But then where do you think viado comes from?
Se incomoda se eu responder em português? Então, pra resumir a missa: tenho quase certeza que o xingamento (viado) vem do nome do bicho (veado). Motivos:
- Em português é comum alçar [e o] para [i u] logo antes da sílaba tônica; principalmente em hiato, que vira ditongo, e o [i u] vira [j w]. (O nome técnico disso é "alçamento pré-tônico", caso queira procurar papers sobre o assunto.)
- Palavrões muitas vezes são escritos com uma ortografia mais popular, não-padrão, representando a pronúncia. Há outros exemplos disto; tipo boceta→buceta, foder→fuder, até mesmo caralho→caraio (e olha que [ʎ] "lh" →[j] "i" é bem restrito dialetalmente)
- Há outras expressões usadas para atacar a comunidade gay, associando-os com bichos saltitantes; tipo "gazela", "biba saltitante", etc. Tem também "bambi", mas essa é claramente derivativa de "viado".
Convincente. Dei uma pesquisada e me deparei com esse texto aqui, que atribui a origem do termo a um homem específico, um socialite português que vivia em Niterói, dono da marca Cigarros Veado e notório por suas escapadas com homens. O jornalista que inxestigou o assunto descartou as hipóteses do desviado/transviado.
Realmente o mistério é mais difícil de solucionar do que parece à primeira vista.
It'd be also good to mention that Illuminati confirmed
I shared it ITT, but basically:
There's that stereotype of gay people being flamboyant, and often hopping in excitement. That created a bunch of associations between hopping animals and gay people; e.g. "gazela" (gazelle), "bicha saltitante" (jumping/hopping beast), but specially "veado" (deer). Often spelled as "viado".
And there's a gambling lottery called "jogo do bicho" (critters' game, or animals' game). Illegal but extremely popular, to the point some knowledge of the game is part of the popular culture. It associates 25 animals with numbers, and #24 is "veado" / deer.
So: if 24 is veado, and veado is gay, then 24 is gay. Plop it into a macho culture, much like in the rest of Latin America, and you'll see people avoiding the number. Even for their birthdays.
Nowadays it's mostly a joke; but frankly I don't like it, it still treats gay people negatively, as if "gay" was "to be avoided". Roughly in the same level as "we did $thing but no homo!" in English, you know?
Can confirm, I was gay that year.
So if you want to look extra gay, your candle says 24+/-x to get your age.
Don't put the word anus after it then!
I was going to say, if Portuguese is like Spanish, it's "anus" without the tilde over the n, right?
For that pair of words (ES año vs. PT ano) this works, but note the correspondence gets really messy, it depends on the etymology of the word. A quick run-down would be:
Origin | Spanish | Portuguese | Example --|--|--|-- Late Latin */nj/ | /ɲ/ ⟨ñ⟩ | /ɲ/ ⟨nh⟩ | Latin balneum → baneum → *banjʊ̃ → ES baño, PT banho "bath" Latin /gn/ [ŋn] | /ɲ/ ⟨ñ⟩ | /ɲ/ ⟨nh⟩ | can't recall an example both kept, but Latin agnum → PT anho /ɲ/ "lamb" (archaic) Latin /n:/ | /ɲ/ ⟨ñ⟩ | /n/ ⟨n⟩ | Latin annum → ES año, PT ano "year"
Then for Latin intervocalic /n/ Spanish simply keeps it. Portuguese initially converts it into vowel nasalisation, but then changes it further on, it's a bit messy:
- corōnam /n/ → ES corona /n/, PT corõa /Ṽ/→coroa Ø "crown"
- pīnum /n/ → ES pino /n/, PT pĩo /Ṽ/→pinho /ɲ/ "pine"
- manum /n/ → ES mano /n/, PT mão /Ṽ/ "hand"
For ES "ano" anus and PT "ânus" anus this doesn't work, though. Portuguese didn't inherit the word, but reborrowed it. And perhaps to avoid making it sound like "ano" (year), kept the Latin nominative ending. (If the word was inherited it would end as *ão or something like this.)
Portuguese doesn’t really have a tilde, but that’s what the h following an n (or an L) is there to indicate
It does have a tilde but it's mostly used over vowels, to represent nasalisation; e.g.
- ⟨mão⟩ /mãw/ [mɜ̃ʊ̯̃] "hand" vs. ⟨mau⟩ /maw/ [mäʊ̯] "bad"
- ⟨mãe⟩ /mãj/ [mɜ̃ɪ̯̃] "mother"
- ⟨limões⟩ /li'mõjs/ [li.'mõɪ̯̃s] "lemons"
- ⟨vã⟩ /vã/ [vɜ̃] "vain" (F)
For /ɲ/ (the phoneme written "ñ" in Spanish) it's as you said, though: it's spelled "nh" instead.
They didn't though. Anos = years. Ânus = anus.
If they are worried about seeming gay, why are they decorating their cake with 23+1 sparkly magic Spanish anuses? Seems preeeetty gay....
For those confused, in Portuguese (which they speak in Brazil), "ano" is year. But in Spanish "año" is year, and "ano" is anus. Also the blue seems speckled or glittery (unclear in the picture) and it says in the corner that it has a magic wick.
That's part of the joke. This isn't really taken seriously here, you'd probably buy this for your friend to tease him in a friendly manner.
Seems like a joke.
(in Portuguese) what kind of cake do you want for your birthday?
IDGAF just don't write "24" on it
ok.... Happy birthday, enjoy your 23+1 anuses, you [insert homophobic slur here]
Doesn’t that say magico, not mango?
You're right. I didnt zoom in enough apparently. I've corrected my mistake. Says "com pavio magico", meaning "with magic wick". Not helping the case honestly.
A magic wick is just one that lights up again after you blow out the candle so you have to blow again, which is also pretty gay.
"Keep blowing"
That's pretty gay
Yeah sounds pretty gay (derogatory) to care that much about being seen as gay (celebratory)
TIL my birthday is gay
Every birthday can be gay if you're gay enough
That's a lot of candle for something that's going to burn for less than a minute.
That's what she said?
I am ashamed to be a member of a race that cannot have a floor 13 in a building in some countries, or a floor 4 (or floor with the number 4) in others just because of an outdated superstition.
But this somehow feels even dumber.
This is not taken seriously, it's a joke. You would only buy a candle like this to joke with your friends. I've never even seen a candle like that. No one actually thinks a number is gay, you just joke about it when it comes up.
Source: I'm Brazilian.
I don’t know if it’s the same in Portuguese, but in Spanish, “anos” (without the ñ) means anuses. So… 23 + 1 anuses. Sounds pretty gay.
Years = anos; anus = ânus. They're spelled different. Depending on dialect they may or may not sound the same.
Is it because of Jeff Gordon? Is that why 24 is gay?
No, it's because of an old betting game called "jogo do bicho" (critters' game):
Check #24. "Veado" (deer), often misspelled "viado", is used as a slur for gay people.
That's quite the leap. Must be a very well-known game, with a board that never changes.
It’s an incredibly culturally impactful game, including in slang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogo_do_bicho#Cultural_impact
Oh. Thanks. I never knew any of this. Also, TIL that the last name of one of my favorite authors, Paulo Coelho, means "rabbit."
Paulo Coelho is one of those authors that remind me how huge the impact of a good translator is.
I read three of his books: Veronika Decide Morrer (Veronika Decides to Die), O Alquimista (The Alchemist), and Onze Minutos (Eleven Minutes). All in the original, in Portuguese. They weren't as bad as people say, but they all felt lacking polish and substance.
Then I checked Margaret Jull Costa's translation of Veronika, and it's like she sprouted life into it. It's all in the subtle things: replacing a metaphor with another that works better, removing indirection from a more emotional moment, this kind of thing does wonders to make a book feel more alive, like she breathed life into it, while still being faithful to the original.
(Another situation reminding me this impact is Interview with the Vampire. Anne Rice's original is… okay? Kind of meh, to be honest. Clarice Lispector's translation into Portuguese is a gem, though.)
I have Salvadorian in-laws that play a similar looking game called "loteria" which is similar to bingo and played at family gatherings. I assume most Central/South American countries have a similar game.
It's more like a lottery than a board game. But a really popular one, regardless of the prohibition against gambling, and the numbers / critters association never changes.
There are other popular expressions from the same game. Like "deu zebra" (the result was zebra) for something extremely unlikely to happen. (Note how there's no zebra in the sheet.)
A friend of mine one introduced his girlfriend to a Colombian friend. He was quite surprised.
He name was Marieke, he heard maricon (pronounced quite similar) that's a Latin slur for gay too.
Thanks for filling in the etymology!
At best, it sounds vaguely like marica, which is another common slur, but just like my reply ti some dumbass claiming veado and viado are the same in Portuguese, you would have to have some sort of developmental disorder to think Marieke and marica sound the same, or completely ignore Spanish orthography.
you would have to have some sort of developmental disorder
Comparing dialectal variation with developmental disorder? That's xenophobia and ableism in a single stroke, it's as filthy and disgusting as the nationalism and classism you parroted in your earlier comment. You're a bigot and deserve to be treated as such.
And you're still spreading misinformation. Yes, both words sound the same in a lot of pronunciations. No amount of you lying will magically change this.
Oh deer
I looked it up, and allegedly it comes from a well known gambling game about animals, in which 24 is a deer, and "deer" sounds similar to a slur.
Until I'm corrected I'm gonna assume this is why
Oh yes, my sexuality is protected 🫦
I dunno. That one looks a little phallic, could still be a little gay. Why not do 22+2 just to be completely safe? This isn't something you want to mess around with.
Anos is close enough to anus, clearly this candle is a secret invite to a 23 person gay orgy, the +1 is the lucky birthday boy.
"+"? What are they doing, crossing dicks?
Nevermind the pretty pink cake for a good little boy this goes on.
til "years" in Portuguese is spelled like "anus" in Spanish
The US equivalent is 67
and we're the "snowflakes"
You're all worthlessly unique.
But they’re happy with an anos on their cake.
Anos = years in Portuguese
Thank you, I am aware.
Why is 24 gay? 🤨
And isn't "anos" actually "anus?" Años is "years old." If it's different in Portugese, that is one hell of a coincidence. lol
Anos in portuguese means years, while ânus means anus. Portuguese doesn't have a tilde over the n, only vowels can have accents in portuguese.
And 24 has a gay connotation due a false homonym in a Brazilian illegal betting game named "bicho" (animal), the number 24 belongs to a "veado" (deer), which sounds like "viado".
The word "viado" is a gay slur originating from the word "transviado" (literally means straying from a path), and the original word isn't as popular, though.
24 is "vinte e quatro" and it sounds similar to "vim de quatro" which can be interpreted as "I came on all 4s"
That sounds hot.
It's because of jogo do bicho but I like your headcanon better.
I'm just jealous 23+1 year old men get their birthday celebrated there.
Is gay porn considered horror for heteros?
