Ek-Hou-Van-Braai
Linuxpretty sure i ripped out snap by the short hairs. snap firefox was too buggy so switched to mozilla version. btw, i fucking hate apparmor defaults. it's gone too.
root@meh:~# snap
Command 'snap' not found, but can be installed with: apt install snapd
Why is fedora a tank top?
Is that what that is? I thought it was a grocery bag.
I think? Neither makes sense.
Yea, I dunno either. Would be nice if the image had a few more pixels... I tried zooming in and it didn't help. My head was like, "it's an ikea bag... because Fedora is all about Flatpak. And all the furniture at ikea is flat pack." It's a long logic trek I had to go to get there to be honest. Most of the others don't make much sense either. Debian is some little dragon guy? Arch is a bow an arrow? Is is possible this image is an AI generated summary of the original article and it's just guessing at what the logo should be for these different distros?
Ironically, just read an article recently about this exact issue.
https://itsfoss.com/opinion/why-hate-ubuntu/
The article: https://www.linuxteck.com/ubuntu-trust-problem-2026/
Thanks. I have to wonder if people became allergic to posting text that can be resized to my screen.
Although the site is also shit, on the phone the text column is like twenty characters wide.
The best part of Ubuntu was improving Debian. In the beginning, Debian was a bit ugly and difficult. Ubuntu was competition, and perhaps resources (IDK) directly or indirectly. Debian is much easier to use than it was when Ubuntu was new.
Ubuntu is taking the RedHat approach (over complicating so that one must buy the support).
the malware one happens in most repos at some point, but the rest is why i dont use ubuntu.
Not this kind of malware specifically. Their snap repo has a policy of allowing fully automatic app submission as long as the app is sandboxed. This led to multiple people submiting modified crypto wallet apps under the branding of the original trusted devs, without any challenge on Ubuntu's part. You could also put up a Librewolf version that leaks all the passwords you type in, or a Signal without encryption - ✨ endless creativity ✨. This specific attack is harder on Flathub as all apps have to be checked by the moderation team, and they should ask question if your Librewolf package is built from your own repo.
Yes, that is not just OS repos. There have been plenty of cases with PIP and NPM hosting malware.
automatically attaching snaps to apt is pretty much the one reason why I'll never use Ubuntu. and now I find out here that they put damn ads in the terminal for "Ubuntu Pro"? oh get fucked Canonical.
Friends don't let Friends install Ubuntu.
I left Ubuntu some years ago because I wanted apt install a package and it got hijacked by snaps without warning.
Even Microsoft hasn't put ads in the terminal I think.
Shh, don't give them ideas 🙏
Compared to what's going on on Windows these are such non issues, and yet people are so dramatic about it. I installed Kubuntu almost 15 years ago and I'm on the same install still (going through several PCs with the same disk/image). Disabling snap took me 5 minutes many years ago and was never an issue, another 2 minutes for disabling the Ubuntu Pro message.
Would it be better if these didn't exist? Of course. But when comparing distros, this wouldn't even be worth putting on a list of pros and cons. Is another distro better for your needs? Great. Is Ubuntu better for your needs? Also great, and surely if it is, then it taking 7 minutes longer to setup is not even a factor worth considering?
If a friend had needs that I know Ubuntu fits best, I wouldn't "not let them do it" for some ideological reasons, I'd just tell them to disable snap if they are not aware of it.
This is the silly distro infighting that makes people avoid Linux.
"Friends don't let friends install hyped flavor of the week distros like CachyOS, popOS and Bazzite that will be out of the vogue in 3 years, instead of something that just works" is what I could've said just as well, but how about let people use what they want?
My main home server runs Ubuntu - I installed it 15-20 years ago and it's grown into a monster. I've been slowly documenting everything so I can reinstall with Debian. Have to up the priority of that project.
I've been slowly documenting everything so I can reinstall with Debian
This works much better if you document into an Ansible playbook. Although some tasks will probably have to be adjusted between the distros.
Debian is so nice as a server OS. It's also a great alternative for WSL if you're forced to use a Windows computer.
And they've tied the dependency tree together such that you can't disable them without entirely breaking updates.
If anyone else would rather read text as text: https://www.linuxteck.com/ubuntu-trust-problem-2026/
Appreciate it as a mobile user!
. . . and it all boils down to "Canonical being into rent-seeking and having weird NIH issues that make it push low-quality own software (snaps in the current iteration, but there have been others) over better solutions used by other distros."
Strong agree. I use a derivative that blocks snaps instead of direct Kubuntu now, and it wasn't Just because of the snaps.
Maybe it was just me, but Kubuntu was also the least stable distro I've tried on my gaming laptop. Constant crashes and random reboots.
I've had zero issues with Mint.
I started out with Ubuntu a little over a year ago. Then came an update that removed the ability to change the brightness of my desktop's monitor. Felt like an Apple move, so I gave Mint another go. Have really enjoyed it (though I'm starting to eye CachyOS since Mint has seemingly decided to comply in advance with the CA age-verification law--haven't added anything yet, but say they will)
I use a derivative
Without Ubuntu Pro subscription the entire Universe repository does not receive any security updates by Canonical:
https://canonical.com/blog/ubuntu-pro-enhanced-security-and-manageability-for-linux-desktop
You should consider switching to an entirely independent distribution that does not lock security updates behind a paywall, perhaps something based directly on Debian or Fedora.
Ubuntu Pro is free for personal use on up to five machines.
Also note that Universe is the community-maintained repository, sort of like the AUR but the community also reviews package creations. The Main repository is maintained by the Ubuntu Project and has always had free security updates.
Ubuntu Pro is free for personal use on up to five machines.
If you're not paying for the product, you are the product.
Debian is free for any use for an unlimited number of machines without corporate tracking which packages you install.
Client-side data collection is opt-in and open-source: https://www.zdnet.com/article/canonicals-ubuntu-telemetry/ If you're talking server-side collection we don't know about, I'd call for burden of proof since neither Ubuntu nor Debian have relevant history of collection and that would probably violate the Privacy Policy.
Client-side data collection is opt-in and open-source
You need to log in to use Ubuntu Pro. Obviously.
that doesn't really change what I've said
If you’re not paying for the product, you are the product.
Debian is free for any use for an unlimited number of machines without corporate tracking which packages you install.
So I guess with Debian, you are the product.
Debian is a community, not a product.
Interesting. I can use a community for my OS? So every time I hear someone say "install debian", they're telling me to install a community?
Either way, it's free, so I'm still the product.
Either way, it’s free, so I’m still the product.
it's free, because people have decided to come together and volunteer to create something that is beneficial to them, allows them to express themselves, and distribute it for free to better other people's lives and contribute to human existence. Part of their motivation to create such a thing is to not have the users be the product.
When there is a soup kitchen for homeless people, the homeless people are not a product.
I can use a community for my OS?
Debian is a community.
Debian GNU/Linux is a non-commercial Linux distribution, ergo not a product.
I thought Debian was a community. How are you installing a community on computers?
Update: Correction. While you do get five years of security updates for Universe on an Ubuntu LTS, those are updates done by the ubuntu community, not canonical. To get Universe security updates from Canonical, you do have to sign up to Ubuntu pro, which can be done without any payment, but as I describe in my original comment, does require creating an account.
While Canonical deserves the criticisms leveled by op (that I agree with), it's also incorrect to say that they lock security updated behind a paywall.
Anyone that does use Ubuntu gets security updated until they stop supporting that particular release version, which iirc is for six years (I may be wrong, thus is from memory).
If you want extended security updates for a specific version of the os, you can elect to sign up to Ubuntu pro without paying any money. You do have to make an account, and if you so choose you can populate the account info with garbage info and a disposable email, and you'll get extended security updates for that release version.
While Canonical deserves the criticisms leveled by op (that I agree with), it’s also incorrect to say that they lock security updated behind a paywall.
Anyone that does use Ubuntu gets security updated until they stop supporting that particular release version, which iirc is for six years (I may be wrong, thus is from memory).
I quoted the relevant part and yet you still don't understand that Universe is explicitly not covered by security support by Canonical without Ubuntu Pro.
you can elect to sign up to Ubuntu pro without paying any money
you can elect to sign up to Ubuntu pro without paying any money
Yes, home users can sign up for Ubuntu Pro for free which means repository access is tracked on an account level. How isn't this more shitty than for example plain Debian?
Debian also doesn't offer security upgrades for contrib and non-free.
Only main is officially supported.
Same as Ubuntu, security upgrades for additional repos are handled by the community, not the distro maintainers themselves.
Debian also doesn’t offer security upgrades for contrib and non-free. Only main is officially supported.
So Fedora and openSUSE are most superior. OK.
Ah. Both misunderstood what you were saying and was uninformed. My apologies. Editing my original comment to reflect that.
Drink your verification can to install security updates.
Novel got Suse pretty stable now too. I'm still a Fedora fan but it's an option.
The updates available through Ubuntu Pro wouldn’t have normally been available prior to Pro. It’s an added service, not something that was previously available that is now locked behind a paywall. There are plenty of reasons to not like Canonical but this isn’t one.
It’s an added service, not something that was previously available that is now locked behind a paywall.
I didn't say anything about it having changed, so your "now" is disingenuous. Fact is, update support by Canonical for Universe is locked behind Ubuntu Pro. Non-Ubuntu distributions such as CachyOS/Fedora/Bazzite/openSUSE/Debian/... don't have this hostile behaviour.
They also don’t provide those updates. I am a Fedora guy by the way. I’m not defending Canonical, just pointing out that this is a silly reason to dislike them.
They also don’t provide those updates.
Fedora allows all updates that do not break compatibility. To update packages in Universe means adhering to overly zealous version number freeze policy, whereas leaf packages in Fedora can be updates without much fuss. I contributed a small number (only two or three) of updates to Fedora packages years ago. Nothing was a core package, only tiny stand-alone utilities, so the stuff that would be in Universe under Ubuntu, but they had new version numbers. Updates were accepted by the maintainers without much trouble.
I am a Fedora guy by the way.
So you should know that I'm right.
Right, but if you’re after the level of “stability” that Canonical is offering, where are you getting it for free? Maybe there is another place but none that I’m aware of. I think it is perfectly fine for them to charge for that, especially if enterprise customers are the target audience and those who aren’t don’t have to pay for it.
Right, but if you’re after the level of “stability” that Canonical is offering, where are you getting it for free?
Fedora, Alma Linux, openSUSE Leap, LMDE,...
lock security updates behind a paywall
Saying this is like screaming "I don't know anything about Ubuntu except that I hate it!!!!"
Saying this is like screaming “I don’t know anything about Ubuntu except that I hate it!!!”
I posted a screenshot from Ubuntu's own blog. So they hate themselves and lie to the world?
What's a better alternative that uses apt and KDE and has relatively up-to-date packages (other than Debian testing)?
It's not KDE, but I think Linux Mint Cinnamon is a no-brainer for somebody who really just wants to use ubuntu.
However, as a long time Mint fan I recently had reason to switch to Debian 13 w/ KDE Plasma and it is pretty great.
Would MX Linux with KDE fit your needs?
Debian Sid!
uses apt
May I ask why you seem to be married to the use of apt?
~~Just couldn't pass up on the opportunity to insert this banger.~~
Isn't apt still better at resolving the dependency tree than other managers? (Idk if it is, but vaguely heard so.)
IIRC, historically, it was (one of) the first to do so. It took a significant time for (most^[Slackware, famously, continues to not have a dependency resolver. Though, they got their reasons.]) others to catch up.
still
Maybe. I honestly don't know either.
Linux mint Debian Edition, and just install KDE yourself ig, otherwise MX linux KDE
What's wrong with Debian?
I already know about it, so there's no need to tell me.
Fair enough.
There's also Pop and Mint, though I don't know if their update model differs from Ubuntu at all.
But if you're already familiar with Debian, why not use it? It's widely recommended for a reason, it's hard to beat.
Pop!_OS uses COSMIC (a modified GNOME), not KDE.
Linux Mint uses Cinnamon (a modified GNOME 3) or MATE (a modified GNOME 2), not KDE.
The answer to "why not Debian" is that I try to install Debian first every time, but if it doesn't work for whatever reason I grab Kubuntu instead of trying to troubleshoot it. 3 of the 4 desktop computers I've tried to install Linux on lately ended up with Kubuntu instead of Debian.
(For my personal desktop that tends to have a bleeding-edge graphics card at the time of building/installing, that's understandable. For the other computers, for other members of my family who don't need the latest and greatest, Debian's failure to support several-year-old hardware -- at least in the installation environment, without fiddling -- was less forgivable.)
I'm sure you can install KDE on either of those.
I'm surprised Debian doesn't Just Work for you though. I recently converted my laptop and desktop and had no issues.
Debian should be great on old hardware too. Longevity is part of their mission. The installation environent might be a bit tricky if you have really old or uncommon hardware, but in those cases I just pick the text installer, which has much fewer dependencies.
Fedora offers apt. AFAIK not by default, so it has to be installed via dnf first but then it's available.
It's been like that for years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=why+shouldn%27t+you+use+apt+on+fedora&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&safe=active
It's a really bad idea to have two package managers overlap (this is also why more "cross-system" package managers like nix and brew are okay: they consciously install to separate paths to avoid overlapping)
Fedora does not offer APT repositories, so if you somehow don't overlap and pretty much exclusively use APT, you're pretty much just converting your distro to Debian (or whatever's providing your repos). In the forums we call this a Frankenstein; support is seldom given for raising the dead.
https://www.google.com/search?q=why+shouldn%27t+you+use+apt+on+fedora&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&safe=active
Is your answer whatever Gemini happens to hallucinate on a given day?
It's maintained by my hardware OEM (Tuxedo) and I'm not even sure it has Universe - most things are flatpaks.
I’m not even sure it has Universe
I strongly suggest looking it up.
Snap is the cancer of Linux. Go work for Micro$lop if you like to disrespect users.
is it just me or does especially the text read AI-generated?
It's also using unicode emojis for Linux distros (that don't really make sense) instead of their logos. The whole thing is likely AI generated.
The whole "verified facts, no FUD" title is exactly the kind of shit an LLM would write. (And it'll still make up a ton of "facts", of course)
This style of website design is almost certainly AI made
arch
bow and arrow
is this from another dimension?
Is .gif different there?
All symbols are wrong, but in ways that oddly make sense:
- Mint - it's a leaf.
- Fedora - it's a wearable.
- Debian - the logo coils itself, so does a snake.
- Arch - arcus~arco~arc is "bow" in Latin/Romance.
I don't know if what I'm going to say is correct, but this smells like LLM shitting emojis.
Seems in that place a Fedora is worn on the chest instead of head.
Lmao, they put ads in the terminal? Are they pandering to Win11 users?? :)
Worse, the ads on apt are because they put security updates behind a paywall for LTS - granted it's free for home users but still requires to sign in to get access to them.
They are security updates that were never available otherwise. They didn’t take something that was freely available and put it behind a paywall. It was a new service.
Another TIL, that is even worse.
This is great info, thank you for sharing!
How much Days?
So much Days.
With a title like that you know it's going to be 100% FUD. Not that Canonical doesn't deserve some of it.
Four statements of fact, but we’ve gotta get our little blurb in there, too..
ads in the terminal lol. back in 2009 I was a gentoo user and was distro shopping. looked at fedora Debian Ubuntu and arch and settled on Debian.
I don't remember if ubunto had either snap or unity back then... but I saw Ubunto as mainly making Debian easier to use. I was coming from Gentoo... debian was already easy to use 🙂
now, I use arch btw. switched in 2019 (mainly cause I got new hardware and needed latest releases and latest bugs 🙂)
I don’t think snap existed in 2009? ~~But yeah Unity was the desktop iirc.~~ Edit now I’m not sure about unity either.
now I’m not sure about unity either.
Unity didn't but its predecessor Netbook Launcher did.
Too many pixels
Original at https://www.linuxteck.com/ubuntu-trust-problem-2026/
I wondered why they didn't mention that the Universe repository comes without any form of official support and that unpaid community members are expected to cherry pick bug fixes and backport them, usually resulting in no updates, a potential security risk.
Then I scrolled down and they're suggesting Ubuntu derivatives that are also affected by this (Mint pop). I have the suspicion that they don't mention to make these two look good.
See https://www.flu0r1ne.net/logs/ubuntu_withholding_universe_security_patches for a somewhat recent (2023) overview on that topic and how Ubuntu Pro plays into this.
This was always the case. Main and restricted were guaranteed by Canonical, universe and multiverse fully owned by the community. A bunch of paying customers were unhappy with not getting updates to universe packages, so Canonical made a separate repository that would do that for Ubuntu Pro. Community members with access to the universe repository can still upload fixes there.
This was always the case.
Yes, I know. So? Doesn't change the fact that users of Debian/Fedora/... don't have to sign up for a "Pro" service to get the same security updates.
Oh how I hated it when I experienced the snap shenanigan firsthand.
I've had that same silent Snap install issue, except for Docker CE. Anytime my dev containers die I know where to look.
Ubuntu is a distro for corporation, not individual users. It's fine if your company gives you Ubuntu laptop managed by desktop support but you should not install it yourself on your private computers.
Canonical's the new Red Hat,
A big part of the article is pointing out how Ubuntu forcing snaps makes corporate management significantly harder; how ads in the terminal are unacceptable and can confuse junior admins and logging software. Ubuntu is not a distro for anybody. Linux Mint, Debian, or Fedora are all better options.
My previous company did some research on what distro should the offer employees and they picked Ubuntu. No idea what they were taking into account but for some reason Ubuntu looks attractive to corporations.
What's more trustworthy, Ubuntu or Manjaro?
since manjaro is on fire rn, the question is whether you want a distro by a malicious corp, or a corp that’s abandoned the distro, accompanied by an uprising.
For Manjaro, it remains to be seen how the restructure will workout. They will become a non profit organization. The previous leadership (phil) was one of the reasons why I stopped using Manjaro a while ago, maybe 2 years by now. Just looked into the link a bit and... it's worse than I thought.
Ubuntu has its own problems, but I think if the core infrastructure and leadership cannot be trusted, then no other decision on the project matters. So my personal vote would go for Ubuntu and against Manjaro, if I were to decide which of them to use.
If you want a beginner-friendly Arch distro I would recommend endeavourOS (though note that it doesn't include package manager GUI by default and I like how terminal-centric it is)
I am on EndeavourOS since 2 years or so, after I stopped using Manjaro (and then before that I stopped using Ubuntu). I am personally not searching for a distribution right now, it was just a question to see what others would prefer. And I love EndeavourOS so far, its a great distribution.
I love it when Linux users who make up 1% of the market attack each other instead of simply building/using a better distro and being happy with it
this is some proper 2007 ATI vs Nvidia nerd shit
Building a better distro means calling out problems with the existing ones.
We have built a better distro, it is Mint, Debian, Fedora, and others. Ubuntu is the most well known distro among the general public. Making sure people don't use a hostile distro like Ubuntu and are instead steered toward good ones is incredibly important.
Ubuntu is the most well known distro among the general public.
Not among all groups. Gamer, for example, mostly left Ubuntu behind already.
The most vehement Ubuntu proponents are 30+ olds who moved to Ubuntu 15 years ago and never ever broadened their horizon. That's probably why much of Ubuntu's community-created documentation is so outdated.
Ubuntu is the most well known distro among the general public
Yes because it works well, has a regular release schedule and is well supported
Most people don't care about snaps or the backend of the infrastructure that they download their app from
Making sure people don’t use a hostile distro like Ubuntu and are instead steered toward good ones is incredibly important
Then why not simply argue in favour of those distros because of their good features? What is the general public so desperately missing out on by NOT switching to Fedora? I use Debian and Ubuntu and I honestly can't tell you, I can barely notice the difference between the two.
To give an analogy this would be like Microsoft marketing Windows not on its features it wants to promote but because it's not terrible like Linux!! Linux is very difficult for beginners and requires extensive knowledge of computers, it has hardly any apps and isn't well supported, it crashes frequently and is incompatible with significant amounts of hardware. Definitely don't use linux you should use windows instead!
Is this convincing you to use Windows 11?
Do you see how it sounds just like weak?
Most people don’t care about snaps or the backend of the infrastructure that they download their app from
And that's why they pass by distributions that make Flatpaks such a hurdle to use. Steam Deck sealed the fate of Snaps and handed Flatpak the victory. Steam Hardware & Software Survey shows a steady decline of Ubuntu in the last years.
