The ‘European’ Jolla Phone Is an Anti-Big-Tech Smartphone
(www.wired.com)
Blaze
Buy Europeanhttps://archive.md/K9AhG
The Finnish company Jolla is back with the Linux-powered Jolla Phone. It’s being positioned as an antidote to the US-dominated smartphone status quo of Android and iOS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzCMKbhK-EY
Pity about the pay-walled factory reset and the closed source software they use like drivers, homescreen UI, the compositor, some QML components and the Android compatibility layer
It wouldn't bother me so much if they weren't specifically positioning themselves as privacy and FOSS advocates
The pin seems like a security feature. If the seller has not given the pin, the device might be stolen. Also the video author blames Jolla for telnet not bring available on MacOS. The linked video does not mention any of the other points.
What. What do you mean pay-walled factory reset?!
In odd chance that you happened to forget your encryption password on old Jolla, the reset needed factory assistance, which cost some tens of dollars. So a nothingburger really, did not appear predatory, simply a bit lacking UX design.
Will it run my bank apps? That's all I care about, really.
It's a bit hit and miss. Some work, some don't. There's a topic about it on the Sailfish forums.
Fediverse is like “oh, I wish there would be some other option to phones apart from android and iOS!” When you show them there’s another option, all are going like “it’s fucking obsolete, it can’t even run android apps and it’s not cheap enough, I will use android and iOS because they are better! And reasonable priced.”
I get what you mean, but I'm of the same sentiment: I don't need 1TB of internal space nor to play Cyberpunk on the go, I just need a simple phone for calls, texts, GPS, bank and other lght tasks, and I can't spend €650 for maybe half of those to work; it's frankly too much.
They are mostly different people. One group of people comments on their desire for something open when something closed is mentioned, and another group comments on the downsides of something open when it's being discussed.
That's not just the fediverse, sadly. That's most of humanity. Everyone is complaining "Oh big tech is sooo bad I want to get away from those companies" but the second you suggest options they will say: "Oh no it's too inconvenient". Hell, you can get away from big tech today if you wanted to, but you want it to stay as convenient as it is. You can get a privacy respecting browser, install addons that block any tracking, get an old pixel, install graphene (via the extremely comfortable web installer that every dummy can use), install linux, use an alternative search engine like DDG or searxng and you're like 80% done.
People like to complain about big tech. But they don't want to do anything that inconveniences them. Online activism at it's finest.
and even when they go to alternative platforms they usually get duped to using something that isn't really any better...
Yeah, you said it better than I.
My problem with Sailfish is the UI is proprietary, which is a step back from Android. I also don't think this phone uses a mainline kernel, which limits long-term support to whenever their chosen LTS kernel goes EOL.
What I want is a phone that has a fully functional mainline Linux kernel, which currently does not exist. It'd be even better if the primary bootloader was replacable, similar to how coreboot can be installed on some laptops.
It is very nice to see a phone with a removable battery and a microSD card slot, though.
Just going by your listed requirements: N900 with Maemo Leste.
Of couse its Hardware is to limited for todays tasks (Web)
Most people care about convenience more than about Freedom.
There is a reason it’s a duopoly, making a competing phone eco system to rival two of the wealthiest companies in the world is not easy. Microsoft tried but even they didn’t have enough money. People need apps, because companies want us to use their apps and there are only two app stores, one is walled off so you basically have to run Android apps or convince every company to make an app for your OS. I’m not wealthy so I only buy a phone every 8-10 years… if I can’t ensure I can do my banking shopping and entertainment on my phone I can’t buy it, and every banking/shopping/entertainment site is designed to be terrible on a phone so they can get you to install their app.
Microsoft tried but even they didn’t have enough money.
Money was not the issue. Timing and smarts were.
Timing is a given… the whole point is now there is a duopoly it’s impossible to compete.
Windows Phone OS was excellent, smooth, efficient and relatively intuitive with flagship models competing with Google and Apple.
The problem was getting apps created for the App Store with the lowest market share. The phone sector was losing money, it did that for years with no great improvement in market share. The call was made entirely because Microsoft can’t have a red mark on their balance sheet for that long without investors getting annoyed.
It was the money.
The problem was getting apps created for the App Store with the lowest market share.
And why was there such a poor app ecosystem and low market share? Because Android and iOS had already cornered the market before Microsoft decided in late 2010 (!) to make a half-assed attempt at entering the market. And if you're so late to the game, you must at least do it smartly and offer features the others don't. Microsoft did not, and thus had to back off eventually.
So if you look closely, it was timing and smarts.
I wouldn’t call $7.6 billion half-assed, but maybe that’s just me.
I can throw $100 billion at a problem and still have a half-assed strategy, causing the money to burn up in the process. (I'd really love try this out, btw. I'm just $100 billion short.)
But Sailfish does run Android apps.
I wonder how well nowadays. I've seen some talk about using Waydroid with Sailfish too.
Yeah, I don't use my phone for gaming or any other intensive applications. I use it mostly for communication, authenticators, and music. As long as it has a 3.5mm jack I dont care.
There is no 3.5mm jack. I was like this for years but 10€ dongle can help although it is not ideal for some people.
While SailfishOS seems neat, it's worth noting that some components, like some drivers, the homescreen UI, the compositor, some QML components and the Android compatibility layer are closed source. The rest of the software stack seems to be based on open source components from desktop Linux. The package manager uses RPM.
I feel like the point was to get away from the Android/iOS duopoly, not to court open-source advocates... though it does sort of do that, using Linux.
I don't disagree and I definitely trust a Finnish company founded by former Nokia engineers a lot more than Google or Apple. But I think there is a lot of overlap between both the "buy European" movement and Fediverse users and those who prefer open solutions wherever possible. A lot of those people would prefer a solution where the userland and/or kernel and/or SDK is completely open source. They will have to weigh their options based on the fact that while SailfishOS is more open than Android or iOS, it is not fully open source.
By the way, it is also worth noting that unlike Google, so far Jolla has been moving in the direction of open sourcing more components of their OS. No one can predict the future, though, and some people would prefer to avoid any possible future vendor lock-in.
Well even though I do think there's value in that despite Sailfish being partially closed it's still a valid criticism.
The nice part is that all those parts can be recreated as open source if SailfishOS gains traction. Just like in Linux private blobs have their open source counterparts.
Nemo Mobile aims to do exactly that.
That's a very glass half full way of looking at it but doesn't that apply just as much to Android?
With Android the "AOSP team" has to play cat and mouse with Google.
Will the Android Signal client work on it, or does getting one involve forfeiting any means of communication with people who don’t know what a XMPP server is?
There is an unofficial native client for Signal called Whisperfish.
I think their refusal to allow third-party clients but also only maintain the official one for select few platforms is one of the things that is a big fat minus for Signal
Yeah I don't trust Signal. I don't get why it's so beloved. Anything that requires me to use a phone with a telecom-company-controlled number as my identity is not something I am generally inclined to interact with much less consider "secure" in any way.
Anyone have experience with these? Specifically looking for how "drop in and replace" it is compared to GrapheneOS.
I'd love to give it a shot, but i worry a bunch of my daily use apps won't work. I'm working to replace a bunch of the more big tech ones (Spotify, Audible, etc), but would also need to be sure Signal and HomeAssistant work seamlessly.
I've been running Sailfish for two months now on a secondary device.
There are native clients for both Signal and HomeAssistant. I don't use HA myself, so I can't comment on how well Quartermaster works, but I haven't run into any (major) issues with Whisperfish.
As for general impressions: SailfishOS feels like the best mobile OS ... of the year 2013. There are a lot of aspects where it was ahead of the other systems back then. For example with the gesture based navigation. But the other systems have caught up in that regard. And then there are the aspects where Sailfish was perfectly average back then. For example how you grant rights to apps (all requested at once, on first launch) or how the emoji keyboard works (like a different language). Design decisions like that aren't deal breakers by any means, you can learn to live with them and work around them if necessary, but they give the OS a slightly dated feel.
Jolla has something called AppSupport in their SailfishOS that this phone uses. AppSupport seems to make it possible to run Android apps directly in Linux, without the need of Waydroid. This allows for a more pleasant experience where you don't have to open Waydroid first before using an Android app. You can access them directly in the SailfishOS app drawer I think.
https://jolla.com/appsupport
I have outdated experience. I loved their first generation device back in 2014. It was again a bit expensive compared to its specs, but I loved its UI and multitasking way of working.
Eventually I switched to an Android device mainly because my banking and communication depended on it. Now there are even more tightly coupled. So maybe in the future I'll go with two devices: one low end Android for official biz that maybe stays in a drawer, and a good Linux phone.
You can use android app directly using appsupport: https://jolla.com/appsupport
This still leaves the question of compatibility. Graphene also has issues with some nasty banking apps.
It is the same as grapheneOS: it does not support app using “play integrity API” that are Google specific
Murica ?
Although I did not experience it yet (Unicredit customer), many banks in Europe implement strict Play Integrity requirements.
I see you're Italian as well. As far as you know, does the Poste app have that problem?
Take this with a grain of salt but there is something called Waydroid (I think?) which you can use to run Android apps on Linux. I'd assume that should work on this phone then. However not sure you need Google Play services, you don't seem to need them on GrapheneOS so this might work fine?
Waydroid probably is an option but it's not all that convenient and not unique to Sailfish.
I have the same concern. I bought one as soon as I heard about it just because of the statement and how sick I am of Google. I will use my current device as a fallback for banking apps and the like, that way if I really need it I still have the possibility. Then I hope I can gradually move to Jolla as my main device.
Honestly wish somebody would go for a nokia style form factor. with signal protocol integration, rcs, usb c and beefy battery, maybe 5g?!, performant processor, custom os/NOT ANDROID its so ugly on smaller screen sizes also not performant, also some really fun apps like: email, rss reader, web radio, tetris, also a compass, and a keychain hole, and a 100€ price tag.
https://www.mediamarkt.de/de/product/_onestyle-b10-mobile-phone-schwarz-140305949.html
OVERPRICED!
Looks great but it does not have Signal as far as i can tell. Its so unfortunate. Dont wanna go back to SMS and I dont think any of my friends would want that either :)
Is that irony?
I secured a spot and will get it hopefully in fall. It might not replace my xperia 1 II, but i hope it will be hold enough.
€700 for a phone??? Am I a joke to you?
you say that like apple hasn't trained everyone to get used to a 1200 euro bi-annual upgrade cycle
Like fuck apple
There's an argument to be made that this is a reasonable price, and that much cheaper phones should be treated with high suspicion.
I'm sure you can pay more for it if you want to.
I mean, if they don't rob your data, they have to get money somewhere and they are also making you pay for the OS i guess
They are manufacturing a limited run. It's normal for prices to be higher.
They also have a 350€ version. The Jolla C2
Maybe🤣
