PugJesus
History MemesI don't think there's any evidence for genocide, but my pet peeve for this is how the indigenous people of the Americas are held up purely as victims, as if the concept of violence didn't exist until Columbus arrived. When the Europeans first arrived in North America, the tribal villages they encountered were surrounded by fortified wooden palisades. Those weren't just there as decorations. Everyone sucks.
I have yet to encounter this explicitly where someone would say that Native Americans were "purely victims". At best, they aggregate and dehistoricize all tribes into a conglomerate term, "Native Americans". I'm sure there are some who cling to the "noble savage" trope, but I don't see it these days.
What ever intertribal conflicts happened, they never reached the level of disease spread, displacement, and systematic violence aimed at cultural erasure. The unprecedented scale of violence unleashed by colonialism, which led to devastating consequences for these communities is important and to flatten the intertribal violence along side the colonial conquest is narrow minded. They may have sucked, but some far more than others.
Let's try the commie shit again and see if it's better this time around
Just one more revolution, bro!
Sure, but no Lenin 2.0 please. Oligarchies and dictatorships tend to go down the same tired old path.
Are you ever going to read theory? Communism literally cannot exist without a dictatorship of the Proletariat....
Have you ever successfully convinced anyone of anything by asking them if they have read more theory?
Are you ever going to read theory? Communism literally cannot exist without a dictatorship of the Proletariat….
I can't tell if this is meant to be a joke or not.
The dictatorship of the proletariat, as outlined by Marx, is not a literal dictatorship. Bourgeois parliamentary democracies were considered the dictatorship of the bourgeois.
I had a tankie tell my that same line of bullshit when they said that the only way to run a dictatorship of the proletariat was through a literal Lenin style dictatorship, and not any form of democracy.
Which is just insane.
Read more theory, and you come across the Levelers, and more pointedly, the Diggers.
The Diggers were completely in favor of abolishing basically everything, money, government, kings and lords, property ownership. All of it in favor of an extreme Christian communism, They also advocated for forced labor for lazy malcontents, who they did not define as the poor or the destitute.
The English civil war was wild. It laid the groundwork for Marx, and the American and French revolutions. Sadly, the English never could get it together and ditch the monarchy completely.
Tankies: White people bad.
Historians: Everything always bad.
What I really don't get with tankies is their reverence of Russia. Their history can be summarized like so: and then everything took a change for the worse. To this day Russia is an empire where white people use colonized people to die for bits of field in parts they already starved in 1932-1933.
you really don't want to get into that discussion with them, trust me
Historians: Everything always bad.
God, ain't that the fucking truth.
Tbf the last 300 years put the white people in a pretty comfortable first place.
Well yes, but once you start oppressing a people, they generally don't get much of a chance to oppress anyone else.
Actually, quite the opposite is true for colonialism. Colonizers often chose a "favourite" group of local people and gave them a tiny sliver of power on the condition, that they help oppress everyone else. I'm not judging that btw.
Right but if you follow that power dynamic up the chain the cause would still be the group that picked the " favorite".
This doesn't resolve the "favorite" group from their role, but rather distributes blame to all involved
I'm not saying white people are in the right. Except for my Nana. She was a fucking saint and if you say anything otherwise, I'll be so hurt.
It's called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism, tankies love this fallacy for some reason.
It’s “appeal to hypocrisy”. It’s very similar to butwhataboutism, but butwhataboutism relies on constantly shifting the focus and making the opponent jump through hoops while the butwhatabout-er never concedes anything. Hypocrisy is saying “you did bad shit too so you don’t get to talk.”
Are you trying to suggest that the Great Satan USA isn't responsible for every single genocide in world history? Preposterous!
Indeed, everything bad that happened in any other country was caused by the USA, thereby proving that capitalism is the most powerful thing in the world. USA! USA! USA!
Historians looking for genocide in history:
tankies punching air rn
fuck tankies, but to be fair, capitalism is responsible for more suffering and death than any other ideology
Only insofar as one is willing to subsume multiple economic systems without even marginal ideological similarities between them as a single system that bears the guilt for the actions of the polity.
I wouldn't say central planning has caused most deaths attributed to ML countries, and I wouldn't say capitalism has caused most deaths attributed to non-ML countries. Both have caused more deaths than they have any right to, but the fundamental problem lays in political and military power more than the exact structure of economic hierarchies. They can feed each other, but then we must get into questions of how much guilt and in what proportion - especially since ideological application in the real world is rarely 'pure' - each piece holds.
Not only that, but these two economic systems have dominated an age where an order of magnitude more people live on the planet than previously. It may be technically true, for example, to say that capitalism or central planning has killed more people than feudal economic systems, but that does not really capture the actual moral value of each of the three.
Capitalism is shit. We need to get rid of it. But that's not the same as saying it's responsible for more suffering and death than any other.
