Our apologies, sir. Of course, sir.
(midwest.social)
The Picard Maneuver
People TwitterCunts used to do this shit at Starbucks all the time.
"This isn't a macchiato."
"Sure but Starbucks thinks it is. You can tell me how you'd like your drink or I can refund your drink."
Worked 99% of the time, unless someone just wanted to argue. In that case, they just got refunded and asked to leave. Our store was almost all regulars and we didn't have a drive-through, so we didn't have to deal with this shit much.
As an aside, I work inpatient psychiatry where it's not so much that they're always right as much as that it's pointless and even counterproductive to argue. In those situations you don't say "but this is a-" you say "I really wanna talk over the details of how to get you exactly what you want" then try to elicit the details of (to use this example) what they think a macchiato is.
Now, the reason I prefer working inpatient psychiatry as opposed to costumer service is that when they start yelling I get to say "oh, my apologies. I'll come back when you're more ready to talk about this!" and just leave. And then if they follow me to keep yelling...
The list of things I'm not allowed to do will always be longer than the list of things the waiter is legally not allowed to do. The waiter can legally just fight back, and I'm never allowed to do that. But the second they become significantly verbally threatening or physically threatening in any way, the list of things I'm not allowed to do to someone as part of my job suddenly becomes much shorter than the waiter's.
You know, if waiters could call a code and administer a 10-2-50 on unruly customers, we'd probably see fewer outbursts.
The customer is always right, in matters of taste. Is the full version it.
He wanted it in a paper cup with a layer of Caramel like they make at Starbucks
I'm convinced people only go to Starchucks for the sugar squirts. The actual coffee itself is fucking disgusting burnt shit. Why not just sprinkle some ashes and a caffeine pill on the candy of your choice?
I have literally no idea how that chain blew up. Did they used to make good coffee?
I had a hot chocolate at Starbucks once. It tasted like cardboard.
I'd say they invested heavily in stuff like ambiente, cozy chairs, free wifi. If your plan is to be on your laptop in a relatively cozy but impersonal environment, Starbucks is often a better option than more traditional cafés.
Also, it's not just the sugar squirts, but also the absurd coffee-to-milk ratio.
That's just another way to degrade and demean the employees.
Service employees are not human.
You can't degrade that which has no value.
value is in the eye of the desiring
The WORST service is at places like this. I want to assume the expertise and competency of every person I interact with. Especially in the service industry. The best service I get is terse, direct, and professional. I don't need my fucking barista to pretend they like me. I need them to get through the 15 fucking orders before mine in a timely fashion so I can get on with the rest of my day. And if some dickhead doesn't know what a machiato is, he can get his happy ass to the back of the line and order it again.
Barring allergies or medical issues, shut the fuck up and move on. If getting the wrong coffee is the worst thing to happen to you in a day you're living a pretty charmed life.
But then again, I did get fired from Starbucks as a teen.
Thats okay. I got fired from Starbucks because I told everyone who would listen that forces people to write an endearing message on every cup completely ruins any impact they may have.
I want to assume the expertise and competency of every person I interact with. Especially in the service industry. The best service I get is terse, direct, and professional
I don't understand why more people aren't like this. When I am interacting with someone who is at work, the trait I want to see the most is knowledgeable, not friendly.
If I'm dealing with you in a professional capacity it's because I have something I need from you. I'm looking for a result, not a conversation. And if my dumb ass is wrong about something then I want to be told why. That will force me to question my assumptions and possibly save me from mistakes in the future.
This is why I much prefer restaurants in places where tipping doesn't happen.
There's no BS about the waiter/waitress pretending to be your friend. There's no organizing the restaurants by sections with one waiter/waitress covering only their section, whoever's available when someone needs something deals with it. When your food is ready, any waiter/waitress around will grab it and bring it to the table. Also, because the places don't depend on tips, they don't care as much about how the waiter or waitress looks. That means people tend to stick around for longer, they know the food, they're good at the job, and because they don't need to keep flattering you, they can be honest.
You can be both, ya know? You can be competent and okay to be around.
oh, absolutely. Friendliness is not unwelcome.
But given the choice of dealing with someone who is competent but unfriendly, or incompetent and friendly, I would take the former over the latter 10 times out of 10
If they're all fake smiles and acting friendly, somebody is trying to sell crap at top dollar.
assume the expertise and competency of every person I interact with. Especially in the service industry.
the turnover at these places is insane, because they hire shit people, due to offering shit pay. there IS NO expertise, and rarely competence. if you ask a question about the product, they'll say "i don't know" and walk away. this is largely the fault of management and training, but also--would you give a rat's ass about the 15th guy in line's hurry when you're getting paid jack shit per hour? i fucking wouldn't. the attitude is you'll get it when you get it; if you stopped at starbucks when you're already running late, that's a you problem
But then again, I did get fired from Starbucks as a teen.
You can still be competent at a shit job. But yes, if you pay shit pay you get what you paid for. We absolutely agree that it's not the person behind the counter's fault. They're trying to get through a shift, not craft the perfect coffee order to your exacting standards. They can't even control the grind or pull or steam temp on the new machines. You're better off going to a fucking vending machine.
the only 2 things i ever get from starbucks anymore (maybe 2 or 3 times a year) is brewed coffee or iced americano. unless something's wrong with the machines, it's pretty much a) push a button, b) wait for coffee to pour, c) put a lid on the cup. very difficult to fuck up at any point in that procedure
as much as i shit on starbucks as a company, those clover coffee machines are fucking legit
I mostly agree, and personally would never send food back, but I think it's fine to mention something if you think you were served the wrong thing. Coffee or otherwise, you might have someone else's order or the barista might have made a genuine mistake. Maybe they put the order in wrong and you were charged for something more expensive that you didn't order etc etc. It's never acceptable to be rude to anyone including waitstaff, but I think a lot of social anxiety is wrapped up in this idea that you're somehow the problem if you mention that you didn't get what you ordered and paid for. The idea that you have to buck up because it's not the end of the world is bad in my opinion.
The strawmen that we're arguing over aren't the same. I'm talking about an asshole who ordered the wrong drink and assumed it was made incorrectly and is interrupting the service of others to fix his mistake.
You're talking about someone politely asking if this is the correct drink and maybe they were handed or grabbed the wrong one.
I stand by if you got handed the order you placed, and you think it's wrong. Drink the fucking drink. Barring a health issue or an allergy it's not going to hurt you. If you continually get a bad/wrong/weird drink at that coffee shop. Find another coffee shop. Or make coffee at home. The customer is not always right.
I don't think we're arguing over strawmen. You seem to think one should not mention it if they get the wrong drink order, regardless of how politely they bring it up. I think it's ok to do so, provided it's done politely. I'm not trying to argue that point, mostly just offering my opinion. I'm not suggesting the customer is always right, just that it's possible for staff to be wrong and it's not improper to ask them to fix a mistake. I understand that in the OP the guy is wrong, but that doesn't mean everyone should just take what they are given and be happy with it regardless.
I'm may be a dirty commie, but I think capitalism has really messed up the way people perceive people on the other side of exchanges. Baristas are often overworked and underpaid but that's not the fault of the customers who are often also overworked and underpaid. If someone decides to spend some of their limited resources on a treat for themselves then I think it's ok that they make sure to get the thing they asked and paid for. I am personally boycotting a lot of big brands, but I'm sure local places are also taking advantage of their workers, there's just no big campaign against them. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism etc etc, but we all participate in the economy and should care about how others are treated. If I do something wrong I want to fix it because I care about you and your experience. What you want matters to me and you should get it. You should also care if that affects me and my day and should try to minimize the stress by being polite and understanding. That's my overall thought process.
Huh, according to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man we're both making strawman arguments.
The guy is saying people should know what they are asking for.
Thank you!
This isn’t what “the customer is always right” is supposed to mean. It means that the customer is always right when it comes to matters of taste, for their own subjunctive experience. If some guy wants to buy a puke green car, don’t tell him it’s ugly. Just sell it to him. On the other hand, if the customer is convinced that cars don’t need brakes and is insisting you remove them before he’ll buy it, tell him to go away.
“This macchiato is terrible!” “I’m sorry. No charge. Can I get you something else?”
“This isn’t a macchiato.” “It’s the only kind we have.”
Macchiato is a special case though. A traditional Italian macchiato is a very specific thing. It looks like this:
It’s a shot of espresso with a little bit of steamed milk added.
On the other hand, Starbucks has popularized a completely different drink that they call a macchiato:
Which is basically a large cup of frothy steamed milk with a shot of espresso poured into it.
Depending on what they’re used to, people will vastly prefer one over the other. This is usually determined by where they’re from (America or Europe). “The customer is always right in matters of taste” should definitely apply to which one they prefer!
Stanno due bevande con il nome "macchiato". Sta espresso macchiato come puoi visto nella premia foto, è latte macchiato come puoi visto nella seconda.
Macchiato means "marked" or "dirtied". One is coffee dirtied with a little foam, and the other is milk dirtied with a little coffee.
Starbucks has to make it that way because their espresso and coffee taste like shit.
It's unfortunate Starbucks pulled the same thing with macchiatos that Taco Bell did with gorditas. Why couldn't they just use a different Italian sounding word?
Even Starbucks doesn't really call that just a macchiato. It's a latte macchiato. If it had Carmel on top and vanilla in the milk it would be a caramel macchiato. It both cases, to any fool that cared to pay attention, macchiato simply means marked. If you point that out to someone and you that rather than being right about what it's called, it quickly becomes clear if they are just rightly confused and ignorant or looking to start some drama. Some people get VERY aggressive when they sense any slight on their pride. Some people have some very outsized feelings about how Starbucks makes and names their products.
Same deal with the short, tall, grande, venti, trente vs. small, medium, large, 20oz, 30oz. confusion. That one was tricky because Karen's would misinterpret the calling of the drinks to the bar as a correction. Those people were generally miserable and hopeless.
Diplomatically negotiating these kinds of conversations is a special kind of hell, but the lessons can be valuable. Unfortunately, it's a skill that most people don't get paid enough for.
On the one hand, you have a multi billion dollar Seattle-based coffee corporation that uses Italian sounding names on many of its products as part of a deliberate marketing strategy to seem refined, sophisticated, and upper-class (relative to “working class” coffee from Dunkin Donuts or McDonald’s).
On the other hand you have Italian culture and cuisine, with a lot of very strong reactions to these sorts of marketing strategies and appropriations.
No need to be a troll
Get over yourself. Starbucks makes billions selling sugary milk and ice with a splash of coffee. They don’t need you to defend them!
That isn't what the phrase means, that's a better phrase, but it is a recent invention that was pulled out of someones ass.
Right. The "matters of taste" thing sounds good, but it's been debunked.
Oh that’s interesting. Well, it’s what it should mean anyhow
tracks with my experiance, in a hardware store you get all these chuckleheads that come in and want "a good ol' bang-a-long" and your like "sir... what is a bang-a-long?" and they throw a ten pound hissy fit and go "how in the gul durn heck of a cats pussy do you not know whahat a fucking bang-along-a-bang-bang is, I'll kill you" and once they're done being a stupid asshole to you they huff off and come back with a hammer and show you what their granddaddy told them is called a "bang-a-dang-a-ding-a-dong-dong" and they can't grasp that the people who make and sell said hammer didn't get that message from Pee-Paa. Then the next lead poisoning victim comes in and asks for an O-ring, and you have the GALL to ask them what they are using it for, and throw their ten pound hissy fit, because they haven't been punched in the mouth enough as an adult I guess, and run off to find one, then come back and show you because you not being able to identify with only "and O-ring" to go off of which one of the 10,000 different size and material O-rings you carry they specifically meant means you have never heard of an O-ring. Then an unfrozen caveman comes in and ask for a telephone installation, which... you don't mind helping him put minutes on his phone with a card, but he actually expects you to install phone lines from the city services to his home, you know, that thing the guy at the key cutting desk is KNOWN to do. traditionally.
I don't miss working in tools & hardware
one lady stumped two of us one time when she started throwing her hands up exasperated and yelling about how the fuck couldn't we know what a half inch drill was and her husband sent her to get this one thing
we were standing in front of the drills, including some with half inch chucks. we had asked her if she wanted the hand tool or a drill bit, and I thinks she'd responded neither or something, because we couldn't figure out what she wanted and what we offered wasn't right, apparently
like ok lady idk wtf you want then, but there are the drill bits over there, and the drills are right behind you. peruse at your pleasure.
and oh god the number of times someone came in for a plumbing item and assumed everything was the same size...
That's what it used to mean
When I was a kid, my first real job was at a well known big box store. One time a customer stops me and asks where something is in a department that I'm not familiar with. Back then there were no handheld computers for easily searching inventory.
Customer becomes angry when I can't find what he's looking for so I call the assistant store manager on duty for help. Manager comes over and the customer proceeds to tell him just exactly how stupid he thinks I am.
The manager -- whom I will call "J" -- was a miserable, gruff, chain smoking SOB who is like 6 months from the end of his 36 year career. But he stops the customer mid-tirade and says, "Now wait just a minute. We're happy to help you find what you need but JubilationTCornpone is a fine young man and one of our best associates and I am not going to stand here and listen to you talk about him like that."
The customer leaves in a huff. "J" looks at me and says, "Just because the 'customer is always right' doesn't mean they get to treat you like shit. He can go to hell. We don't need his money."
I never really liked "J" because he was a pain in the ass but he earned my respect for that.
I never really liked “J” because he was a pain in the ass but he earned my respect for that.
Tough but fair?
I think it was just more that his job was incredibly stressful and unfulfilling and he was sick of it.
Another time he pulled me aside and said something to ge effect of, "you need to get the hell out of here and go make something of yourself. You do NOT want to do this for the rest of your life. Trust me."
There was plenty of wisdom I ignored during my teen years but I heard that little nugget loud and clear and I actually listened to it.
"What do you consider a Machiato?" is still "Customer is always right".
You could even phrase it so the "customer is right about what a machiato is", like "I'm sorry, this is what we call a machiato here, can you tell me what you're looking for?"
Hiding behind the bar trying to guess someone's order isn't good customer service. Asking the customer to clarify what they want so you can make it exactly how they like it is good customer service.
If a phrase has had half of itself amputated, it's almost always so right wing people can use it as a bullshit justification. Also looking at you Blood is Thicker Than Water.
Like "one bad apple spoils the barrel"
Just dismissing criminals in your midst as "bad apples" misses the point. The phrase is meant to say you need to find and get rid of those apples before their corruption spreads to the rest of the barrel.
Remembering the plot of Rampage (2009), the post sounds way darker lol
Funny enough I used to work at a Caribou and those caused issues all the time. People would come in expecting something like the sugar laden thing at Starbucks only get a regular espresso and foam.
The proper traditional version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_macchiato
Starbucks take: https://www.starbucks.com/menu/product/413/hot
Both versions are "real" drinks of Italian origin. The problem is that you can't expect to get the correct drink if you only use half of the drink's name. It doesn't help that most Europeans only know of one, and most Americans only know of the opposite one. The cafe macchiato (aka espresso macchiato) is coffee 'marked' with a little milk foam. A latte macchio is foamed milk 'marked' with a little coffee (and optionally also a bunch of sugar). If a menu (or a customer) just says macchiato without specifying which liquid has been marked, then it's best to clarify up front what they mean. I use hand gestures to demonstrate their different sizes when asking. I agree that the cafe macchiatto is the superior beverage, but the ambiguity is the real issue.
Yeah, I was thinking "Did they give him the real version when he was expecting the starbucks version, or did they give him the starbucks version when he was expecting the real version?"
If it was the latter, he was technically correct if still somewhat prissy.
I know I don't like too much milk in my coffee and it can give me an upset stomach, so I'd be less than pleased to receive what is essentially a latte when I was expecting something more akin to a shot of espresso with a small amount of foam.
But I mitigate that by asking first how they make their macchiatos if I'm going to order one, and they still act like I'm being a jerk for trying to clarify before even ordering. Like, it's an ambiguity that exists so I prefer to make sure before wasting anyone's time or my money.
I don't have that problem when I'm in Europe, cause most coffee shops there actually know what a macchiato is and make them the correct way. But the US makes ignorance a point of pride.
Sugars: 42 g [venti]
I'm somehow surprised it has less than a 12 oz. Mountain Dew's 46 g, but I'd bet the 6 g of saturated fat (3/5 of a Big Mac) is doing some heavy lifting.
Literally liquid candy, which is why it doesn't surprise me that I loved it when I tried it at age 13 but wanted to throw up when I had it again five years later. Could also just be that their coffee itself is subpar trash.
So macchiato is animal bone?
The LAST method was telling because it was the last thing you tried before getting fired by management who always took the side of the customer.
The film, Triangle of Sadness, presents what could go horribly wrong when you take the customer is always right too seriously. It's both comical and profoundly disturbing.
