it's not actually like email
(midwest.social)
Kierunkowy74
Fediverse memesWhen comparing the fediverse to email we're talking about the technology. It's a simplification to explain how it all connects together using a very similar and known example.
I think the only difference is that, unlike email, all fediverse uses the same* activitypub protocol. Other than that, yeah, it's just like those house-castles.
* Some differences may arise depending on implementation, like misskey reactions
it's like email (derogatory)
lol these were constructed with mostly Saudi Arabians in mind. Didn't really work out.
Where is the lie?
It's like email. Deal with it.
I can. But I can't exist in polite society. So... here we are.
So many comments in here hating on the "like email" wording. To be honest, it's been awhile since I've even seen any large number of comments using that analogy, but also, the "like email" part was pretty much always paired with additional explanation on which parts are like that and which parts differ from that. Like most analogies, it's not a perfect 100% 1-to-1 pairing of all features and function, otherwise, it wouldn't be an analogy. I'm not sure why so many people struggle with understanding that.
No, it's not like email. It's like Glibbleschmorken except there's not mandatory prereconcillation of sychroncratic communication.
That's inaccurate, my dude, it's nothing like Glibbleschmorken, it's more like WUD where there's a multiplier for the scoring quotient and no centralized conglomeration.
False. WUD SUX. There's only no centralized conglomeration if you ignore the fact that every hovel has API underpinning that strategizes the discombobulation. But, that's basically ignoring the facts. Federation is clearly just like UDP.
And so on. Ad nauseam.
The "it's like email" analogy was always doomed, because the people saying it know how email works at a technical and architectural level, while the people hearing it know email as "that thing that Just Works ™️ to send messages to anyone else with an email address".
At that level, the Fediverse and Email are nothing alike.
Show of hands who's here because they're not allowed on reddit anymore? 🤚
I used Reddit for 15 years, hundreds of thousands of Karma. Never any bans or warnings. Active in a ton of subs.
They have some new AI moderation hirse shit this year. Banned after 3 strikes in a month because I post shit about fuck Ice and Fuck the Nazis.
So Fuck Reddit.
(FWIW, I have been using Lemmy before that, but now I use it more.)
Same deal here. 12 year old account banned because I said "ready to kill" in the context of a cat hunting a bird and apparently that is "threatening or violent content"
Whoever is (not) reviewing the appeals needs to eat a peepee
Got myself and my girlfriend chain IP banned because I said I couldn't wait to see more waymos on fire
I said mean things about Elon Musk and was banned for "violent extremism"
I'm allowed on Reddit for as long as I want.
I don't want to be there. so I am here.
I left Reddit because they changed the API and wouldn't let me use my favorite app RiF lol
Likewise. Never deleting that app, but never going back to Reddit again either.
The official reddit app is a vomit-inducing pile of antipatterns, I hate it so much I don't use reddit while on the phone at all, which made me use it almost never. Now I need to escape this hellhole and my life will be so much better
That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Now I wouldn't go back even if they reversed it.
Is the "polite society" in the room with us right now?
Is it at X-twitter?
It’s not just a big truck you pile everything into. It’s a series of tubes!
Ten posts streaming across that, that Fediverse, and what happens to your own personal Fediverse?
The fediverse is more like different countries. Technically you can travel to every other country with your passport and talk to the people there.
But the people running the countries like to put up border controls so you can't go to countries that don't align with yours politically, and some ban you just because you've visited a country they don't like in the past.
I like this analogy and i think it's better tham the overused email analogy
It feels like most of the Fediverse is in Schengen Area. Then hexbear and lemmy.ml are like Russia and Belarus.
i've felt the same way except i see lemmy.world like the usa, manufacturing consent and peddling propaganda on the lemmyverse with vassal instances like sopuli and shitjustworks benefiting from it like the vassal states of western europe have done; a lot like how the prime minister of canada explained it recently.
confirmed emails from the ghislaine maxwell case that the isreali oligarchy had been "managing narratives" on reddit in a similar way to that of the epstein illuminati controlled 4chan's /poll/ with things like qanon & pizzagate makes me feel like i've dodged a bullet by staying away from both reddit and the diet-reddits of the lemmyverse.
i fully expect that piefed will be like trump going after greenland and make the people of the vassal lemmy instances realize that their instances will diminish on the lemmyverse like the western europeans will soon realize that their countries will lose prominence on the world's stage.
those people will find that they must return to reddit or go to piefed to continue receiving their iv drips of isreali/us misinformation and breads-&-circuses meanwhile the center of the lemmy's original leftist communities & instances like hexbear will keep on going strong like they have been despite the lemmyverse censure in the same way that china prevailed against the western world's censure to thrive compared to the declining us empire and it's vassal states.
i fully expect that piefed will be like trump going after greenland and make the people of the vassal lemmy instances realize that their instances will diminish on the lemmyverse like the western europeans will soon realize that their countries will lose prominence on the world’s stage.
Wtf are you on about.
i'm building upon a parallel that @Szewek@sopuli.xyz created between the lemmyverse and geopolitics.
The fundamental flaw in your observation here is that many lemmy instances (and piefed) aren't exactly US-friendly in the first place and are federated up with every other instance. And many Piefed instances are run by non-Americans anyway.
the ones that are us-friendly are the lion's share of the lemmyverse's userbase and activity.
This is true (depending on your definition here, we'll possibly agree to disagree) but piefed existing or not doesn't change that.
The fediverse is not like email. It's more like a series of decentralized social networks that can communicate with each other.
I assure you, the alternative to the fediverse is not polite society, not in my experience. Unlike other platforms one is allowed to be wrong here and getting corrected doesn't trigger the fight, flight, freeze or fawn response.
Stop trying to sell me on it; I'm already here!
Yes. The fediverse is so great I've stopped telling people about it.
We fedis know how to keep a secret.
First rule of Fediverse...
Too much growth will kill the vibe in this place.
The Fediverse is not like email, it's more like the various BBS networks of the 80s: Tons of anarchy, chaos, StarTrek, politics, lunacy, StarTrek... and cool as hell.
Please keep it this way.
BBSes did have a weirdly prominent Star Trek thing going on in the late 80s/early 90s. I never thought about it enough to see how weird it was other than figuring it was mostly nerds being nerds (in a good way).
I have zero problems with Trekkies. If anything, they're a welcome community, the sci-fi is hopeful and idealistic, it's positive science fiction.
Oh, I don't have a problem with Trekkies at all, and I am very fond of the Trek memes on lemmy, but it was almost certainly not nearly as "normal" as I thought it was back in the day.
Had a lot of Tolkien handles on our BBSes as well haha.
Oh, I can exist in polite society just fine.
It's just that I don't want to.
“Polite society” ain’t.
Greetings!
Hello
Reminds me of this. There's a couple of roma towns/neighborhoods in Romania that look even more ridiculous. They're competing with each other to have the tallest house with the most number of little tower thingies or something because I've passed through there a couple of years ago and it seems to be getting more and more out of hand.
Reminds me of winter town in Arcachon https://www.arcachon.com/en/je-fais-des-travaux-en/tourism/discovery/exceptional-locations/the-ville-dhiver-winter-town/
The funniest and most shallow thing about that is those houses are often empty on the inside
Could be. Although some are just as ridiculous on the inside
Well that's just fun.
Crosspost comment consolidation helps with that issue.
Already available on Piefed, planned on Lemmy 1.0.
planned on Lemmy 1.0.
Closed as not planned: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/3415
That's.. sad to see.
I'll probably make a post about this when I have some time. Community fragmentation is still quite a large issue across the Threadiverse, it was supposed to be solved by this.
How does this interact with moderation? I never considered that viable because how wildly... Shall we say diverse .ml, .world, and the rest of the fediverses' moderation schemes are.
Each community's comments are separated although still on the same page. Here is a good example - https://piefed.social/c/technology/p/1765981/google-sent-personal-and-financial-information-of-student-journalist-to-ice
That's cool! I just wish the header was more subtle, but that's only a css thing
Oh, that's neat.
Thanks for the example :)
I must be missing something because I only see two main comments on that post and the sub comments.
I’m on voyager app tho so that’s likely a limiting feature even tho it’s supposed to be working on that comparability.
Can you show me a screenshot of what you meant to show?
You could just pop it open in your browser... don't even need an account.
Hypothetically yes, but I only ever accessed fediverse through non-apps briefly before I swapped to the app. I was part of the Reddit app-based exodus. That was the whole reason I came here; to support app devs.
If it’s not reflected in apps, lots of people will never see it. That’s all. I can go out of my way to see it but I don’t see it in my normal interface. Voyager is still working on full piefed support
I think some of us are just kind of used to checking things directly since certain features and concepts may not yet be implemented in things like clients due to being, essentially, the bleeding edge.
Yeah, I get it. You more techie people tend to assume everyone does what you do, and that’s fine, but totally unrealistic overall. I’m not nearly as techie as you probably are, but more than your average user, and tbh the barrier here is pretty high already, even without those assumptions of capability.
If they won’t do the work on other platforms, they certainly won’t here. Y’all need to stop pretending they will. It’s not doing any favors I’m sorry.
I prefer the analogy of a fleet of ships - free-traders and pirates alike. Some captains refuse to pass along messages to other captains, and that's alright, because consent should matter, after all, and someone's "right to free speech" does (or rather should) not trump my right to not have to listen to their crap, nor my right if I were a captain to not have to platform it.
So you pick a captain that shares your values, or perhaps you become one of your own.
PieFed has made huge strides in cross-community visibility (multi-communities and combining comments across cross-posts), and in explaining what each instance is all about (see https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser), and in migration of whole entire communities between instances.
The Fediverse is not like email. It's like self-hosting your own email server. 🤔😝 But it's getting better. And people will put up with complexity if they see the value behind doing so - it's just that with so little content, and what content there is being so toxic, especially to newcomers, that it's not worth much of a hassle for them to keep trying whenever they hit a hurdle. Lowering the barriers will help enormously with that, as will increasing the level of enrichment to power through.
If anyone's curious:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Al_Babas
appeared online in the early 2020's
I still cannot comprehend that it's now the late 2020s. FFS, it's 2022
Wouldn't this still be mid-2020s? I've always though it goes like 0-3 early, 4-6 mid, 7-9 late
By late 2016, construction work on the castles was behind schedule. This was initially attributed to the cold winter weather, then to a failed military coup that July.
This part is funny to me because that coup lasted hours. My parents made fun of me for going to bed right before it began and waking up after the coup was done.
It sounds more like they happened to find an excuse for delays by some divine luck. (Altough there were delay-causing events AFTER the coup)
Video showing them. I wish they would show the inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3P2USPFDcE
I've always hated the email analogy, it only added to the confusion for me when I was first dipping my toe into Lemmy.
We should just stop explaining federation. If someone wants to give it a try, point them to one instance you like, and let them go there.
If they come from Reddit, it looks similar enough for them to use it.
It's something that we should semi-explain or be like if you have questions just message / talk to me about it and I'll give more information.
But yeah we often give to much info and overload people in one go.
I could exist in polite society, but why would I want to?
If it was polite I'd be existing there right now
This is funny but it's a very unfair comparison. That neighbourhood is fully abandoned with exactly 0 residents, and you know it would probably be shit even if it was finished as planned. The fediverse has at least some real people and is actually a fun place.
Where might one find one of these “polite societies”?
That place looks pretty cool for sure!
To be honest? For me it's the fun type of broken-and-hilarious. Once I got used to the Fediverse, most of the things I could complain about it are found in the equivalent closed platforms.
What's broken besides piefed?
I didn't know piefed was broken, can you explain?
"Broken" is hyperbole. Maybe I shouldn't have said that. It's just newer and still in the process of building a lot of features. But it's also got things going on under the hood that make me lean to hyperbole just because I personally wouldn't use social media that did that.
I don't know how to code or anything, I just eavesdrop stuff I'm interested in and often repeat things without verifying. But this was the convo I was looking at when I said, ehh maybe I won't make a piefed alt for anything. https://lemmy.world/post/42299745
Fair enough, it's social media with a tiny half-life, and thanks for replying anyways!
Some of this is misinformation in that most of it can be turned off, and some of the functions will change as it develops.
Can little users like me turn it off or do comm operators do that?
Little users like you are already using a Lemmy instance as it is configured.
A Lemmy admin can
- block any community they want from showing up on their instance
- block a whole instance from communicating with their instance
- ban every single user as they see fit
Regarding the post you linked above, most of the controls can indeed be disabled, and they are disabled by default: https://piefed.zip/c/fediverse/p/1005977/piefed-admin-settings-that-allow-to-enable-or-disable-content-filters-they-are-disabled-by#post_replies
That's kind of the baseline for consenting to use social media though. I have hangups about unspoken tools for suppressing content. Which, I don't think the instance I am currently on has. Not that I can tell yet if it did. It could be as you say, that there are tools currently on sopuli to do that and I just don't know because they're not being used.
But nobody has pointed them out and since this is all open source I assume somebody here would
A few Lemmy instances have automod bots that remove content automatically according to baselines set by the admins.
There is no way to know if an instance is running an automod except when it acts.
Sopuli does not use one as far as I know, but Piefed instances like piefed.zip don't either.
Well, I'll give you one example. Piefed has tools designed to suppress new AI posters. I don't know if other instances use it - probably not, but Piefed.social does use this. Can it get it wrong and incorrectly alert us to users who are not using AI? Absolutely. Does this bother you? Legitimately curious.
I imagine every instance has the capacity to turn some cogs to censor content, but will choose not to. Sopuli for itself absolutely is blocking some instances though.
Every function there is admin controlled, so it's referring to admin panel controls.
Okay, yeah so it being possible to turn it off wouldn't really matter much to someone like me. It might as well just be always on.
Not that this is a sweeping indictment of piefed or anything. I'm sure all these features in concert are going to result in a unique experience, which is valuable anyway. Sorry for using statements like "it's broken", that was kind of shitty of me
Well if you really find them onerous, you'd join an instance which has turned them all off - which would be piefed.zip.
If u squint ur eyes it looks like a klan gathering
Then don't squint your eyes: problem solved 😂🤪
It feels like raiding dungeons actually but that could work too
I wouldn't say "driven" or "polite", but partially true, at least. Also, wasn't the fediverse always supposed to be a conglomerated mess? That's one of it's defining features.
I'd say it's more like a big truck than a series of tubes.
Whoever is behind those projects is the sort of kid who'd retell the same joke over and over expecting it to be as funny as the first time.
