Dbzer0 votes to defederate from feddit.org
(midwest.social)
goat
MeanwhileOnGradHere's the thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/24345496
users from meanwhileongrad are banned from dbzer0, so you won't be able to interact (which you shouldn't be doing anyway)
This is only slightly related to MoG, considering dbzer0 is largely a tankie-apologist instance that caters to a tankie bar, and the thread only allows dbzer0 users to vote. This post here can serve as a neutral space where dbzer0 users can interact with Feddit users, and since MoG is referenced in the thread quite often.
Do they ban any tankie communities or is Stalinism any more acceptable than Zionism?
They sometimes ban tankies. Never asked them if Stalinism is preferable to Zionism.
Good for them. That place is a cesspool.
which one? lol
This is projection, because borari stopped talking to draconic NEO a long time ago. DN just keeps tagging them.
They are accusing you of obsessing over them while shock they are obsessing over you.
I'd like to note that Draconic can post here whenever
This popped up in my reports feed not long ago.
Zionazi is certainly a confused word.
What's the context going on here?
Maybe they were just good at keeping on the mask, but it's a bit sad because I remember a year ago seeing most of db0 openly clowning on tankies whenever they showed up.
Now Unruffled seems to be pushing to make the whole instance explicitly tankie/campist.
Db0 sometimes attacks Tankies, although self-admittedly, he is soft on them. Other times, he even camps with them.
They've both told me that they prefer spending time with tankies instead of liberals, and consider liberals the bigger threat than tankies are. Which is curious considering the history of MLs and anarchists with how the MLs often betray anarchists. I believe their accusations of calling this community a nazi-bar stems from insecurity of their own spaces, where they regularly defend prominent tankies.
I've never seen unruffled attack them though.
Yeah after looking at the history of Ukrainian anarchists I just don't understand how anyone could be a bigger threat than tankies.
It's because they're both communist, so Anarchists keep trying to believe in "Left Unity"
Anarchists who don't want to align with tankies are attacked for not believing in left unity, both by a few other anarchists and by many other tankies.
Somehow "left unity" always means everyone else adjusting to MLs and not the other way
There is a crowd of people who will call you a zionist for anything. Yesterday someone reposted a neo Nazi and used Nazi language in their post title. Me calling them on it? Makes me a zionist, obviously.
Yeah I've had the same happen. It's very disheartening to see so many anti-zionists unknowingly repeat Nazi slogans and talking points. You point it out, you mention that 'hey, probably not a wise idea to use zio- since it's a term coined by David Duke'
and they call you the nazi. like bruh, i aint the one quoting the KKK. that's why I call them antisemitic, since if a neo-nazi was using the same arguments and excuses, I certainly wouldn't buy it.
You have defended Israel in threads before and labeling everything as antisemitism is a Mossad talking point.
To be fair, I don't agree with dbzero defederating though. Every removed comment was grossly insulting. Hard to know without more context, since we don't have the comments they were replying to but I doubt they were deserving of the replies.
Can you give any examples? My opinions on different topics actively changes, I'm not opposed to change or considering that I may be wrong or ignorant.
I don't label everything as antisemitic, only examples that are collective or phrases and theories that neo-nazis and other antisemites historically used, such as triple parentheses or the zio-pejorative. The latter is particularly common on Lemmy.
It's in the same vein as "Israel has a right to defend itself". It looks okay on the surface but ignores decades of context and the fact that Israel fostered Hamas and let the attack happen. It basically implies Palestine was asking for it.
The choice of vocab is telling as well just like how Israel isn't "defending itself" but simply killing civilians. If you rephrase is more truthfully, as in "Would Israel be committing Genocide if the 7th of October attack hadn't happened?", the answer is it doesn't matter. No reason ever justifies exterminating people.
I don't know the context in which IndustryStandard is replying. That was 5 months ago; my views on Israel have dramatically changed since then.
Gaza wouldn't be in the state it is now if the 7th of October massacres never occurred, if Hamas, which Israel fostered, never carried out the attacks. It'd still be greatly oppressed, but not a smoking rubble with a starving populace. The reason absolutely does matter since that's the excuse Israel uses to carry out their genocide, 'Oh, those civilians were totally just collateral! It's war! This happens despite us having the most sophisticated intelligence agency in the world'
Pointing out that Israel used the massacres as a proxy to carry out their extreme violence isn't defending Israel. It's not saying that Israel is justified, I'm not making any of those claims. Admittedly, I could've specified, so I'll do so now:
The 7th of October massacres were the triggering event that allowed Israel to pursue a level of destruction that wouldn't have been politically possible otherwise. Identifying that this is the moment the mask fell doesn't justify Israel's actions. The responsibility for the destruction lies with Israel, which is choosing to destroy Gaza. If these massacres never happened (which I need to stress, Israel's intelligence was well aware of these attacks and allowed them anyway), would Gaza be in the state it is now?
also im curious, can you link that comment?
Once outed as a repost of a neo nazi's post, OP deleted the post, and also the "zionist" accusation was in a dm, so unfortunately not
uhhhhh... saying death to any country or group is inherently violent and extremist.
I told them that it is not good to wish death on Israel or Palestine. Just because shitty people are in power, doesn't mean the populace has to suffer because of it. It doesn't matter which side.
that's also what i told them, but that was enough for them to consider me a zionist and ban me. for a group that larps on about how much they oppose campism they sure do use it a lot.
Travel writer Rick Steves recorded a taxi driver in Tehran exclaiming "Death to traffic!" in English, explaining that "when something frustrates us and we have no control over it, this is what we say". Steves compares the phrase to non-literal use of the word damn in American English.
There's definitely a cultural translation issue here
Tehranian's talking about death to inanimate abstractions that must be interpreted figuratively have an excuse that competent English writers who understand coherent literal meanings do not. We don't use "death to" this way: the right word is "fuck", eg, "fuck traffic!", "fuck Israel!".
i can get behind fuck israel
but they are literal.
Death to the Republican party!
yeah that too
even though i agree with it
But I am saying death to the party, not members of the party. Calling for the Republican party to end doesn't mean that the members of the Republican party need to end.
'Death to Israel' is not the same as 'death to Israelis'.
No, you didn't. Death to X is always ambiguous and can refer to anything, that's why extremists use it. If you don't want people to interpret Death to X as violent extremism, then you need to specify
Like how you already specified.
So when you agreed to him saying the Republican Party, and before his clarification, which way were you interpreting it?
Violence
Fascists get no mercy
dbzer0 seems like a silly place, let's not go there
A lot of alt accounts in the thread and I got the feeling that these three are the same person.
dbzero: "We don't like people getting banned for not being nice enough!"
Also dbzero: "Rule number 1 here is that you have to be nice!"
All because we don't let them do as they like. Feddit is welcome to everybody who sticks to the rules. And the rules make it automatically difficult for people who follow hateful ideologies. I try my best to be fair to our community. Meanwhile certain dbzer0 users want us to ban people for simply believing Israel should exist, even if they are opposed to Netanyahu's regime and want settlers out of the West Bank.
It's telling that they ban you without allowing you to explain yourself. Ultimately, dbzer0 has a severe antisemitism problem, and I think we're seeing some of their users realise that.
(not so subtle reminder that dbzer0 users are allowed to post in this community, as is everyone)
I explained myself on YPTB and to some dbzer0 users who were visiting here on alt accounts and they ignored 90% of it or weren't interested in my reasons.
that's been my experience with them. they don't tend to argue in good faith.
And the rules make it automatically difficult for people who follow hateful ideologies
Way to tell on themselves. Imagine turning your need for calls to violence into a make or break issue for your entire instance? lol, lmao even.
If you look through the thread the admins use examples of troll comments calling for violence and threatening other users as evidence of censorship and zionism.
in the comment i posted in this sub they were called out
It's also funny because some of the comments they cite as having been removed by the "Zionist" mods are literally just "Go fuck yourself you piece of trash!" followed by the actual argument. What do you think, were they banned for the first or the second half of their comment? Nuance seems to be completely dead on this instance, which is saddening to see because I greatly value the contributions of @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com. Seems like i's a personal vendetta from one of the admins.
Unruffled and draconic NEO are the main drivers in the thread.
Two of the absolute worst posters on the Fediverse.
aw Draconic doesn't seem that bad. what makes them one of the worst?
I have either blocked or avoided them successfully on the multiple accounts I have had over time while trying out different instances that my recollection is vague and I do not have examples. For me to dislike someone that much they have to be a hypocrite who abuses their power against multiple users other than myself, does not argue in good faith, and responds to people with what they assume they meant instead of what was said. Unruffled is right there too, baiting people into responding and then banning people for 'not letting things go' because they need to get the last word in.
db0 seems to comes across to me as misguided, Unruffled and Draconic_NEO come across as malicious and petty.
i'd love a neutral place for people to discuss their issues and come to a consensus instead of flinging shit between spaces. you can't post in dbzer0 since you're banned, so they can say whatever they want about you.
i'm unsure if you've banned any of them.
Actually, I was only banned from YPTB and Lefty Memes. I can still post on dbzer0.
oh, is there a reason why you're not contesting in the thread? not worth the drama?
it's important to note that the admins on dbzer0 act independently of each other. they don't communicate or plan every single post, which sometimes leads to them publicly arguing about admin decisions, which is delightfully refreshing and transparent. I really like it.
but i wouldn't hold any of the admins aside from unruffled for this post.
I would. I'm not sure how dbzer0's governance works/is supposed to work because I, quite frankly, don't care, but the other admins tolerate unruffled's behaviour. They made them an admin and they're choosing to keep them around. They might not be directly responsible for unruffled's actions but they're enabling them.
dbzer0 is an anarchist instance. db0 is the person.
Anarchists don't believe in hierarchy, so all admins act largely independently from one another. i've spoken to db0 before about how hierarchies work in an anarchist online forum, but didn't really dive deep enough to fully comprehend how it works. either way, db0 did say that the userbase can oust an admin if they are no longer happy with how they act. They don't always tolerate unruffled's behaviour and there have been some cases of back and forths between admins in the modlog where they unban and reban and unban and repeat
perhaps you can ask them about it in a good-faith approach?
Edited.
ETA - Also, when I said I don't care, I meant it. I don't judge people's actions by their ideals and intentions, I judge by the outcomes. And the outcome is, well, this.
Ridiculous, but seeing this post - good riddance. Still, what a dumb way to lose contributors to their instance.
"They comply by laws that limit obvious hate speach, which is why we should seperate us and segregate them [because we love hate speach as long as it is directed at the right people]".
I came across a dbzer0 post with a discussion about this, the commenters were using really cringy pirate speech like „Arrr Matey“. I thought they were chatbots.
Lol link it!
just reminding everyone that MoG is a neutral place in all of this, we don't ban users and encourage people to engage in here knowing you'll be safe from censorship
cringe
::: spoiler spoiler :::
I didn't take much from it, but one thing that surprised me is that they seem to think Europe is more pro Zionist than USA weirdly.
Not the governments, the people specifically.
This is a very interesting comment
~~Third reply down, "Draconic NEO," is literally an AI porn spamming account that originated a few days ago and keeps on coming back under slight changes to their alias after getting banned~~
Edit: Okay, I was happily wrong. A spambot harrassing Draconic exists.
After some digging, I am assuming it is a user who used to go by the name "dragonrider" who has had a personal vendetta against Draconic NEO for like a year now. There are imposter posts from like eight months back.
not quite!
Draconic NEO is a legitimate user who occasionally posts here, but a spambot keeps following Draconic around, posting defamatory comments and generally harassing. Fortunately these bots don't work in this community
There is someone who keeps on posing as Draconic NEO. It's either antiyanks or dragonrider.
Well that explains why it appears some of my blocks were broken. It's likely the imposters.
wish the lemmy devs would stop arguing about their tankie fantasies and get to work on ways to deal with vote manipulation and alt spam
maybe piefed's the way to go
I don't think it's antiyanks, since why he has said some transphobic stuff, he usually doesn't use overt slurs. and he'd certainly not oppose someone who is supposedly anti-zionist.
omg
that's usually how it goes.
Honestly, at this point instances need to stop doing open registration. Otherwise this crap will persist.
originated a few days ago
Na, those are just the latest accounts, I blocked some of them months ago.
Automod banned this account for trolling
Line em up against the wall...
that's one of the comments that feddit admins removed, yeah
