Wah wah, babies. Wah wah.
(midwest.social)
Stamets
Risa: Your Home Away from SpacedockI like this. I agree with this.
But it's not stupid. Like. I expect WAY dumber shit from this subreddit.
This belongs in a proper Star Trek sub, not the monument to stupidity and nonsense that is risa.
In my humble opinion.
Okay so largely bc of lemmy's trekkie community I'm partway through my first viewing of Star Trek and enjoying it (starting with TOS ofc). And at some point the first yeoman gets replaced so I looked into it, some sexual harassment apparently she comes back later in a subsequent series. But then I thought I noticed Lt Uhura was also suddenly gone from the show. She wasn't, she was just not prominent for most of an episode, but before that it made me look into Uhura as well, hoping nothing irl made her leave the show.
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that actually she HAD considered leaving the TOS for some other gig but had actually discussed with Martin Luther King Jr. prior. Turns out one of the only shows MLK Jr. allowed his children to watch was Star Trek because of the representation of an equal society, and when confronted with Nichelle Nichols' desire to leave the show he became upset. He told her 'Don't you understand for the first time we're seen as we should be seen. You don't have a black role. You have an equal role.'
Uhura
Ty, my mistake
i really wish uhura would appear in tng. seriously!
Trek has always been political. Trek has always been progressive. Trek has always been sexy
It was the era of the mini skirt after all
For men as well (in one TOS episode at least)
If I'm not mistaken, Trek was on air during the Summer of Love
Been awake for more than an hour. Still took me about 10 seconds to realize that "Black Flag Officer," was referring to the color of his skin, and NOT the banner he was flying, possibly indicating Special Forces, or Piracy.
Or hardcore punk lmao.
No no the Cardassians have the Obsidian Order fleet but Starfleet is only secretly run by lizard people at the top.
Lizard bug people
I had the same reaction when posting to be honest
Misread "Black flag officer" as "Black Flag officer." I thought to myself: "Wait, Henry Rollins would have been too young to been in Star Trek."
same, but with different misunderstanding đ´ââ ď¸ yarr, matey
What is black flag officer meaning?
A flag officer is a commissioned naval officer above the rank of captain, or an army/marine corps officer above the rank of colonel. Basically, it refers to admirals and generals. Typically, officers at these ranks have flags flown on their conveyances and command posts that denote their presence.
Oh I see the black is about the officer, not the flag. Thank you
Watching this as a kid when it was new, scenes like this went right over my head. The only thing that seemed odd was a Russian crew member. I had a lot to learn about the world.
And that is exactly why it was so effective.
Like the old saying goes, "show, don't tell". TOS didn't need to shake us by the shoulders and say "look! There's a black woman in a respected professional position! Isn't that amazingâ˝" They just showed us Uhura doing her job, being treated the same as anyone else because it's the future and why would it be any other way?
Seriously. The modern trend of girlbossing every fucking thing is genuinely going backwards on the issue.
I'll be honest, it would be nice to get applause for putting on my pants right by the third try one of these days also.
Honestly, I'm really happy for you that you saw it as just another moment. That's the world I want to live in, it's the world I want to raise my child in.
That's honestly how we get rid of all this racism. Children are innocent, let them play with each other, let them talk, mingle, they will make friends irrespective of people's background.
I think the problem here is children are taught they are different, they are told they can't be friends, or hang with certain groups. They're told they can't talk the same way their friend does, they can't say the same words (might be controversial sorry, but children are innocent). And this is in cases where they are interacting, many communities are isolated and many children will only grow up seeing people like them. They don't learn about the diversity, they grow up having "us" vs "them".
If that continues, it'll never be better. Children are our hope, our grandparents are not going to change, but children can be, and they'll replace the current generation. Attack on education, and isolating communities makes the population stagnant, or even revert back.
Children are innocent
I was the shortest of the class in my youth, which was reason enough to get bullied day after day. Some children are innocent, others just go along with bullies to not get picked on themselves and some are just absolutely cruel and vile if you're different. And it's definitely not always upbringing, the worst of the bunch actually had very nice parents, his brother was a great guy as well. But some kids are just rotten to the core.
It's funny you gave example of bullying. It's again another thing that seems very common in USA. I was honestly shocked that there was so much bullying in school. And teachers apparently don't do anything except telling the victims to toughen up, or learn to deal with it yourself.
Yes some children are bad, but it's largely shaped by environment on what they feel confident doing. For an extreme example, a bad child in any other country will not go shoot up the school. Bullying feels similar. It is natural that children will form groups, include people they like, exclude ones they don't. Rude ones are normally excluded from nice groups. And if it's anything actually harmful, adults' (parents or teachers) interference stops it. I think the American individualism starts young, when someone is bullied, even their friends won't stick with them to not be victims themselves. That just isolates the victims, and the bullies feel empowered.
It is my perspective from outside as I didn't go to school here. So forgive me if I don't understand it completely, my knowledge of school in USA comes from Internet and a lot of philosophical conversations like this with people in my life that went to school here.
My school experience wasn't perfect, me and this other guy were the shortest in our class. It was even kinda officially recognized because teachers ordered students by height in assembly (every morning). I had people that looked down on me, and people I looked down on too. Some small physical fights (not height related), and verbal ones. And a lot of teachers' intervention. But people valued education, when I learned how bullied being a nerd makes someone here, and hearing the details, and the apathy of the teachers, I was shocked.
Similar thing with the race problem. We had everyone go to the same school, our parents (and prev generation) would not go to each others house to eat, even if they get along socially. It was a social taboo, but I will not do that because I grew up with my friends. And they're just my friends, and the social rules seem arbitrary to me. And it helps that we're taught about equality, and how the old way of separating/discriminating people was wrong. Previous generation might not be able to let go of their habits easily, but when they no longer control society, most of it will be gone. Also, in my generation (friends and cousins), I have seen so many marriages that would not have happened in previous generation.
my knowledge of school in USA comes from Internet
Well, guess you'll probably know more about the US system in that case as I've never even been near the States. đ
Yes some children are bad, but it's largely shaped by environment on what they feel confident doing.
Yes, but that does invalidate a blanket statement like 'children are innocent'.
Having said that, I completely agree that it should be ingrained that equality and worthiness of respect are not dependent on aspects like skin color and gender.
Children suck, but the ways children suck are petty and personal.
The real bad shit is necessarily learned.
The series also featured green dancers a decade before US strip clubs.
i had no idea strip clubs were that recent
Only for green strippers.
Holy smokes. Fact of the day!
Don't forget that the first officer was originally a woman. Number One.
And Spock was supposed to be red (like a devil) until they realized it looked like blackface on black and white TVs.
I thought having him look like a devil was vetoed by the network on religious grounds?
... they wanted the Jewish actor wearing pointy head additions to be demonic?
I agree with all the comments about the importance of representation, but he is wearing a red shirt.
Yeah and he survived all the random beam downs, he's probably a legend. That almost makes it better. Though yes get your idea, but just trying to put a better spin on things.
I'm reminded of Admiral Fitzwallace on the West Wing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G3AH7jDUL0
Nice job making the first black admiral a red shirt. Guess they wain't that woke.
Statistically red shirts are less likely to die, there were more of them.
On TOS roughly 10% of red shirts died. Almost 20% of gold shirts died. Blue shirts were the least likely to die. Something like 5%.
For me, this is nonsensical. Star Trek being political is a truism. It makes no sense to claim it. It's like saying politics is political.
Even talking about it is inviting a counter argument which can only be nonsense.
But I'm also old, from the time start trek was political.
Idiots complaining about how star trek is "political now" are speaking nonsense but they're still speaking. It's important to counter this because idiots, gullible folks, and people not paying attention, will be sucked in by the nonsense if it's unopposed
I'll never forget how disappointed I was, when Rage Against the Machine went woke!
So sad. Heartbreaking. They were so good before being woke!
My conservative dad showed me RATM as a kid.
His football team used to run out to Bulls on Parade, lmao.
It's whiny Nazi shit sticks who want to look at cool spaceship without being criticized.
And, like, sorry hypothetical Nazi bitchbaby, but the only SciFi that doesn't explicitly tell you you're wrong is so far above your head and would scare the shit out of you.
They don't want to have to deal with the fact that anyone who tolerates their existence is morally and more importantly creatively bankrupt. And if course they're Nazis, so they would rather deny reality than acknowledge any flaw with themselves or the dog shit they chug like a college freshman at jonestown.
It alternated. Sometimes they boldly went. Other times it was other stuff, like politics.
Fact is, the other stuff is more popular than scifi. And that's why they do it.
I think when people talk about fiction being too "political" nowadays, they usually mean one of three things:
- "I hate minorities."
- "I am only now savvy enough to notice the political undertones that have been a defining characteristic of the genre for a century or more."
- "The writing sucks."
Personally, I can get behind #3 because boy howdy there's some bad writing out there.
And I'll admit I occasionally fall prey to #2. Some things I watch today feel too "on the nose" in regard to current events, and sometimes it's hard to tell if it's truly worse writing than my old favorites or if I was just too ignorant, naĂŻve, or credulous to pick up on it when I was younger. It's also sometimes hard to tell when re-watching old stuff because I don't feel the zeitgeist of 30 years ago in my bones the same way I do today's (naturally).
For example, I can watch an episode of Futurama that's literally about the world being nearly destroyed by a giant ball of 20th-century garbage, and somehow it doesn't feel overtly topical, while the new episodes about bitcoin and AI feel more like a sermon than a sitcom. Maybe the writing is worse, or maybe I'm just old now. Who's to say?
Popular political tropes are low hanging fruit for writers and easy for the common folk to digest. Throw in some spaceships and you have something that looks like sci-fi if you squint your eyes.
I think some of it is that the "political element" of the past became mainstream. Partly because it was a political element once.
People now, who most likely watched Trek in reruns 20 years after the fact don't see Uhura or Chekov or the Black Flag Admiral as political, because it no lomger really was when they watched.
But then they see a gay character on modern Trek and flip out. But others just see, another character. And in 20 years, maybe no one will even think it is or realize it was polotical.
That sort of thing.
Even on your futurama example this applies to some extent, though we do kimd of still have a garbage problem.
Tv party tonight
The writers weren't being political, they're just above all that.
Totally apropos of nothing, this is the senior leadership at Africom right now.
Idk if SciFi is necessarily going to save us
The United States Africa Command (USAFRICOM, U.S. AFRICOM, and AFRICOM)[4] is one of the eleven unified combatant commands of the United States Department of Defense, headquartered at Kelley Barracks in Stuttgart, Germany.
Uhh, were you suggesting they should have black people serve in that because... Africa?
Given that the role is as much diplomatic as it is operational, and given that 20% of the US military is African American, is a bit crazy that they could only find white people to fill the roles.
That's not how the military works. They dont "find" people, they send whoever is in that theatre. And considering DEI is now commie or whatever, yeah. This tracks with their behavior
Thatâs not how the military works.
Historically, the military has been explicitly segregated. Even more recently, war colleges have favored whiter recruits (often children of other officers) while PoC have been confined to the enlisted ranks.
The current "anti-DEI" Hegseth Pentagon has been a return to a very explicit form of white nationalism at every level of the bureaucracy
This is lowkey kinda racist, implying Black Americans need to be sent because their darker skin makes them more suited to negotiate with Africans.
Additionally your statistics are coincidental. Even if 20% of the armed forces is black, what percentage are ranked to these positions? Also there's only 5 dudes. 20% would be 1/5, so missing 1 is within margin of statistical error.
This is lowkey kinda racist
But the whites only officer corps is what, exactly?
A different and likely more damning bit of racism perhaps.
The argument is that if you have 99 white guys and 1 black guy in your pool of people, then the choice to specifically send that single black guy to Africa is a bit messed up. You probably should have more black guys in the people pool, and that surely points to some racial bias in the hiring process, but the decision on how to deploy those people is a different decision that can be racist or not all on its own.
The argument is that if you have 99 white guys and 1 black guy in your pool of people
Okay. But why is it so difficult to get non-white guys in your officer's corps to begin with?
the choice to specifically send that single black guy to Africa is a bit messed up
Given the history of African states under European colonial occupation, I might argue that sending any of the white guys (particularly white guys with a certain expressed stigma against domestic nonwhites) is a foolish move.
But you don't have to take my word for it. You can ask any of the leaders of the seven different African governments that have seen officers' coups overthrow the sitting Western-backed governments and replacing them with African nationalist military leadership.
the decision on how to deploy those people is a different decision that can be racist or not all on its own
The heavily predicated on the attitude American leadership has towards the African state they're deploying troops. If they consider military in the country part of a mutual defense partnership, it makes sense to send people who are relatable and who integrate well with the political establishment. If they consider military in the country an occupation - or military leadership a diplomatic corps for dealing with wealthy white business owners - then the leadership will reflect American priorities rather than Host Nation priorities.
Sending a guy who looks and talks like Elon Musk to server as senior commander in Botswana sends a very particular message, especially when it is coming under a Presidency that keeps insisting South Africa is doing reverse-genocide against Afrikaners.
Okay, sure. You do understand that the vast majority of African Americans have been rooted families for generations now? I can't underline enough how fucked up it would be to send someone to Africa because they have dark skin. That is a verbatim echo of all sorts of internal American racism.
I'm addressing that very specific point.
I don't think anyone here was advocating for that though?
Genuinely asking - do you think the people of Africa would be more welcoming of American military forces if the AFRICOM commanders had darker skin?
They might've not been filling them based on skin colour... Putting black Americans in the position because the military thing is about Africa sounds skeezy
They fired all the wokes and affirmative actions. Obviously only mediocre white failsons are qualified to do things.
Totally apropos of nothing, this is the senior leadership at Africom right now.
...
An arm of the US military is run by US Military staff.
I'm shocked. Shocked! If it was ran by LITERAL African Americans, it would make a huge amount of difference, because as we all know, enlisted military staff are extremely well versed in the current culture, norms and goals of modern countries that are in the same continent as their ancestors whose culture and background were erased as they were bought over to the US during the slave trade.
An arm of the US military is run by US Military staff.
What percent of the US military is African American?
What percent of the senior officer corps is African American?
Why do you think that is?
What percent of the US military is African American?
given that 20% of the US military is African American
What percent of the senior officer corps is African American?
IDK, you seem to know, why don't you inform us?
Why do you think that is?
Racism.
The problem is a lack of having black people ascend to this type of rank. I don't expect any of the US military to match the culture of the people they are running their bases out of. Donnell Rawlings worked as military police in korea, last time I checked he's not Korean, he's black. You think he'd adapt way better if he was working out of Mogadishu?
Totally apropos of nothing, this is the senior leadership at Africom right now.
Leopold's colonial rule of the Congo Free State resulted in the death of up to 10 million. Belgian colonial rule didn't change that much. Shortly after Congolese independence, the CIA helped assassinate their newly elected leader Lumumba.
They replaced him with Mobutu. This allowed the worst colonial abuses to continue. Crucially so did the extraction of minerals. Copper, cobalt, uranium, ... very important for America's interests and economy. Unfortunately this meddling would ultimately result in the first and second Congo war and another 5 million dead. Oops.
Given Africom effectively allows the US to engage in force projection and colonialism in Africa, isn't it fitting that it's all white men running the show from Europe?
Some fun facts because I'm bored:
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A few years back Tesla signed a large cobalt contract with Umicore. Umicore is in part a successor to Union Minière du Haut-Katanga, a mining company that is in part responsible for that 10 million death toll.
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It is estimated that child labour still accounts for 30% of cobalt mining in the Congo. Some as young as 7. Tesla goes zoom.
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AFAIK the Democratic Republic of Congo is currently not on Trump's travel ban list, likely because the US is negotiating a new minerals deal. It could also be because Trump or the Whitehouse confused the DRC with the much smaller Republic of Congo. It could also be because Trump is on record as saying he doesn't know what the Congo is, let alone where it is.
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The DRC has a population of over 100 million, and suffers from the so called resource curse. They produce 70% of the world's cobalt, have 70% of the world's coltan, and 30% of the world's diamonds.
Given Africom effectively allows the US to engage in force projection and colonialism in Africa, isnât it fitting that itâs all white men running the show from Europe?
I would say it is symptomatic of the attitude that the US military leadership has towards its peers in Africa, certainly.
That's because we opted for cyberpunk as our subgenre.
Nope, teenagers with century old rifles made for czarist and kaiserreich armies or hunting buffalo to genocide the plains tribes, and maybe shoes if they're lucky, will slaughter these bitches.
Dunno where they'll be from, dunno if it will be in 26 27 or 28, but I'm pretty sure that's how its gonna go.
