*squints*
(midwest.social)
Track_Shovel100% guarantee that those who are proposing this will have some sort of exemptions for themselves and their oligarch friends.
This is definitely proposed by someone who runs a farm and wants free labor.
Id cost them so fucking much in repairs. I don't need the produce to eat, the local varmints will suffice.
Yeah. I've read some handbooks and have some ideas. They would not like this idea for long when they start losing thousands a day in repairs.
Oh I would just fuck with the irrigation. If we are talking what I've read in books, well all I've got to say is "Gooooooood morning Vietnam!" cause that's about the experience everyone would get.
Like being over 30? Or more than that?
$
Age exemption was right there in the second sentence (18-30).
Guarantee these bastards are all older than that.
i'm proposing this and i've already done farm labor twice so far (two seasons). i would recommend it to everyone who's moderately physically healthy, i'd say.
Who's the "our" in "our farms" referring to? đ
A very good point.
âŚright , so only the family farms? Not any farm owned by a corporation, right?
I was thinking more like "farms collectively owned by the populace"...
You knowâŚgood people. (Pay no attention to the fact that the definition of good people changes wildly every day based on the moods and whims of Dear Leader.)
Well it talks about Americans so I'm guessing it means American farms
DEAL, however as these farms are worked by the public they should become owned by the public. And the harvest be distributed at-cost to the public.
While we're at it, nationalize ~~Monsanto~~ fuckin Bayre I guess. Either that or stop letting them fucking copyright seeds.
Monsanto has not existed as a brand since 2018. The name of the new baddie is Bayer, who acquired them and got rid of thae name. Same shitty playbook, but letâs focus our anger on things that exist.
Sorry, haven't kept up with the ever-shifting hydra of corporations well enough I guess đ¤ˇââď¸.
Hydra is right. Theyâre owned by the same group of entities who all have cross-holdings in each other making them essentially one giant megacorp.
https://www.investing.com/equities/bayer-ag-ownership
Itâs just another example of how great public works programs were. If the workers were housed/fed/paid decent wages, I think people would sign up in droves to travel around and do work that improves their country all the while learning useful trades/skills. And something like publicly owned farms would probably pay for themselves.
Or, and hear me out here: We could pay people a competitive wage for their labor.
I understand the need for agricultural subsidies. The government inserts itself into the normal supply/demand process to protect the general public against a famine.
What I don't understand is why those subsidies don't seem to be flowing past the greedy hands of corporate farmers and into the pockets of farm laborers.
Actually I don't think it's that terrible for an idea, as long as things like food and accommodations are provided, and you can't get out of it by paying (e.g. pay someone to do it for you).
I'd like to see billionaires doing hard labor alongside ordinary people.
If we're doing it, we gotta add in a rotation of frontline retail/restaurant work.
How about we just add it to curriculum for school. During general highschool educational, you must take at least one Public Service class per year. You can choose from farming, retail, plumbing, electrician, road crew, et cetera. Each kid has to do a certain number of hour per school year, and it's required even if private school kids. Disability would obviously be an exception, but otherwise you need to be doing at least X number of hours per school year to graduate. Could help people understand how these things work, and hopefully build some empathy in the little sociopaths.
Iâm able to have a sense of empathy for all those people you listed, without having done every single one of them personally. I donât know what the best way to teach empathy is, however.
I'm not suggesting that no one has empathy, or even that most don't, just that some would benefit from this in that arena
Could also steer some kids into trades instead of expensive college that isn't a good fit for them.
A well rounded graduate of highschool, having experienced multiple different kinds of work environments could help our society feel a little more connected, lead to kids better able to determine what it is they want to do with their lives. If you had to do this once per year during highschool, and you had to pick a different one each year, you'd end up with at least 4 different experiences by the end. That's a lot better than our current system of "you've never been allowed to make a decision before. Now, my child, on your 18th year, decide your career for the rest of your life, and blindly take our 200 thousand dollars worth of loans to do it"
If you think this is truly beneficial you should be able to hire people to do it. If you can't convince people to do this what right do you have to force them?
That's fair, honestly. I was going to make a quip about kids not wanting to learn math, so what right do we have to force them to learn it. But in all honesty, you're right. We treat kids like little machines who must do and say as we command, and that's a problem. I still stand by saying that experience with the working world would be beneficial, and that it should be part of standard education, but as far as the ethics and morality of it goes, it's a sticky area that would need much discussion.
I would agree with it if it was working on publicly owned farms. I donât support any kind of âdraftedâ labor that ultimately benefits private owners, or even a system where the government reaps the profits. If people are made to work in any fashion, every cent of value generated should go back to them.
You can get out of it by paying
See The Rich doing hard labor
Pick one
you can't have competitive wages on a free market as long as somebody else is willing to do it for less. That's why migrant labor would have to end first.
Tbh, I'm not convinced that this would really happen. There's not that much price elasticity to a lot of agricultural products. If the strawberries cost too much, most people will just not be able to afford strawberries and thus will just not buy them but instead buy less labour-intensive produce instead.
One could argue that if strawberries cannot be produced in a way that earns everyone involved a living wage then we shouldn't produce strawberries, and that's a totally valid point to argue.
It's also fair to argue that we need to cut out capitalism's inherent inefficiency of having to feed the capitalists in the process who did contributed nothing in terms of labour. But on the one hand, this hasn't worked out that great in the past and on the other hand this would require more of a change than to just kick out migrants.
What would be more likely to happen (since we've seen it happen during Covid already) is that the wages will go up, but the locals still won't do the work, thus strawberries will rot on the fields, the shelves will be empty, the prices will go up, but not enough to cover the losses for the farmers and the farmers will plant something less labour-intense next season.
(Wages would have to go way, way up before people will voluntarily quit their job in an AC'd office to work on a field.)
Didn't we try that here after Brexit? From what I remember, farmers were having to let crops go to waste because Brits didn't want the jobs, even after wages were raised. Most farm work is seasonal, people don't really want that instability.
Edit: https://foodwastestories.com/2021/10/09/120000-pigs-culled/
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lack-of-workers-lfood-to-rot-in-fields-cost-of-living-crisis_uk_62fa7fb3e4b071ea9589136d
https://www.fruitnet.com/fresh-produce-journal/higher-wages-fail-to-halt-labour-crisis/185817.article
They had to bring in special visas, because no one else wanted the jobs.
yeah, there's a serious argument to be made here that the people in england, USA simply don't want these kinds of jobs.
then again, the thing isn't so simple. Why would people in the USA not want these jobs, but mexicans are fine with them? is it because the people are spoiled? is it for other reasons?
Personally, the job itself I wouldn't mind, but it's what comes with it. It's seasonal work. How would I consistently support myself outside the season? How would I get a stable home if I'm living in farm accommodation while working?
In the UK at least, these were often men coming in from the EU. They could send money back home to their families, where it would go further.
A resident Brit with kids to support isn't going to go for this kind of job. As I said, no stability. They'd have to pay enough to make up for months of no work over winter. Which they can't do as their margins are already low and supermarkets don't pay enough and so much produce goes to waste because it's a bit blemished or wonky.
Sounds like they didn't raise wages enough to fairly compensate workers for tolerating that instability.
We are contemplating compulsory service by all Americans. "Free Market" is not a factor here. Against that alternative, we can consider a wide variety of non-free options for influencing market behavior.
You describe workers exploiting themselves: being willing to "do it for less" than a living wage. Correcting minimum wage to be a living wage keeps their slave-like desperation from influencing the labor market.
Beyond that, directly subsidizing American ag laborers corrects the follow-on market effects of anti-famine subsidies on agriculture. Ag subsidies depress food prices and tank farm revenue, forcing farmers to exploit workers. Ag subsidies directly to ag laborers corrects that undue influence on the labor market.
Yes you can. The issue is that it isnât one market, itâs two: the legitimate market and the under-the-table market.
Real farmer here(who has never voted red). I don't trust the average American not to completely fuck up any harvest and not to bitch constantly about the heat or dirt. It's bad enough hearing people who work in AC complain about the heat to me.
I spent my teens working on farms (labour intensive vegetables) and can confirm. Every spring weâd have a few crew from last year, and new ones; even in gorgeous spring weather people would last a couple days before quitting. And itâs not difficult, but it requires attention to detail, which some people either donât have or donât care to have.
I worked on an assembly line making CV joints. The inner and outer races had a numbering system based on measured size. The outer races were honed, and there would be size variations we would have to keep adjusting for. 4 inners go with 4 outers, 5 inners with 5 outers and so on. 4 was the most common.
One shift, on a Saturday, one of the workers used 4s for everything. Some were failing, inspection at the end of the line, but a lot didn't. Well, then the 4s ran out. Since that is the most common size, we were down. She intentionally ran us out of parts by building things wrong, potentially making scrap or defective drive train parts because she didn't want to work on Saturday.
Her job, that she applied for and took, knowing there are times when would have to work weekends. A job with a good union and Healthcare.
I can only imagine the kind of employees you'd get by forcing them to work the fields, for I'm going to guess way less than UAW wages. In the sun. I think you'd see a lot of sabotaged equipment or crops.
Not trying to justify her or anything, but companies do love to abuse shit.
Yes, being expected to occasionally work overtime is a reasonable expectation.
However, most companies will just keep doing it. Im sorry, if I have to work overtime almost every single shift for more than 2 weeks - that is not reasonable. (And that shit happens even with unions)
Seriously, this person is making CV joints. It's not like they are a doctor or a firefighter. I don't see the urgency. This world needs to chill.
"That's right, the 4 goes in the square hole"
~That Lady
I always love that video.
Nope. Itâs slavery. They want to do a slavery.
And not even smart. Farming today is sonething you have to train at and want / need to do. Grab 100 people that have never farmed before and set them loose in a field to find out how quickly crops burn.
What are you on about? I've done potato truck driving for a season when I was depressed and needed something else to do for a while. There's a lot of low/no skill work on farms that people can do. With just a few people who know what they're doing (and I definitely wasn't in that camp), the crops aren't going to be burning in the field. I don't think anyone is advocating grabbing people, plopping them in a field and saying "here, farm this".
Hint: Marxist-Leninists really like slavery, so that's not a distinguishing factor.
I think the big difference would be that under this you'd probably be working for next to nothing to enrich Monsanto or something, whereas under a Socialist system these would be public lands owned by the people, do be distributed to the people.
Having the military do farm work/construction is also pretty common in those kind of countries too.
Under this plan, would the farms be nationalized, or would people be forced to work for the profit of private farm owners?
You already know
Free labor.
Gavin McInnes even said teenagers should be primarily used for this. This will also be the case when you realize how much child labor laws are being removed by Republicans.
Free profits for the agriculture industry.
Wait until private equity firms get in on this and find a way to buy and gut farms and their assets while also profiting of the "free labour". You're gonna love this.
Are we also nationalizing the farms?
Only the losses!
Next we kill all the birds!
Lol, no
Nationalized industry that always produces food at cost and pays all of its workers well and fairly would be a great idea so long as the people setting it up aren't completely untrustworthy fucks.
Oh wait
This is what MAO did during the cultural revolution. Intellectuals and âprofessionalsâ got sent to work in the communes. Hard to believe that MAGAts are asking for commmnist policies, but then the Kirk thing has surprised me in terms of the policies they want now. Since Kirks policies are no longer acceptable?
It makes sense when you understand that MAGA doesn't really have a ideological base. They are a group of people pissed off on the economic prospects of their lives without having any real understanding on how to fix it.
When you choose your words, you can get a MAGA to be 1000% aggreeable on the "libtard" views they rail against every day. I do it every day and I'm not exaggerating.
Is it possible to learn this power?
People deep in MAGA usually focus on words or phrases as bad, not going deep into the ideas of it. If you can discuss something without bringing up those words or phrases, you can probably get them to agree to something.
They nationalized Intel for chrissakes (ok, partially) and are or have done the same with TikTok. It's like they're doing a bass ackwards play at the horshoe theory. Anything to avoid the middle at Capitalist Socialism.
i think supporting intel was a mistake. intel produces cutting-edge chips, unlike ARM which is significantly cheaper and catching on to intel performance-wise.
Basically, intel can't continue because they're at their natural end of life: with the end of moore's law, it's only a matter of time till ARM catches up performance-wise, and out-competes them on price.
with the end of moore's law, it's only a matter of time till ARM catches up performance-wise, and out-competes them on price.
Iâm not so sure about that, at least in single-thread applications, but Iâm also not sure it matters. When performance reaches a certain point the average consumer doesnât really need more. And I think weâve largely reached that point for the average consumer.
When performance reaches a certain point the average consumer doesnât really need more. And I think weâve largely reached that point for the average consumer.
yep
Won't someone think of the bitcoin and AI bros?
Though the goals were different. Intellectuals weren't sent from their labor, they were sent to get re-educated because Mao thought they were too bougie.
MAGA's woke is pretty close to Mao's or Stalin's bougie.
History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.
If only it came with a few more aspects of maoism. Like the obliteration of landlords
Judging by how hard the GOP is fighting to protect the Epstein files, they have some other things in common with Mao.
do you have sources about the mao side of this?
they have some other things in common with Mao.
Evidence?
You mean a wanton disregard for the will of the people right?âŚ..Right Annikin?
Those guys could finally get jobs!
I wonder how many rich kids will develop bone spurs?
Ok, they can work retail.
Not while you forbid cashiers to work sitting down for no reason at all.
Come to Walgreens where you are forced to keep busy 9 hours straight on your feet. Cashier can't just wait on customers. Nope they must constantly look busy stocking etc. It's hell!
When you only have one person operating the entire store, it's so much better for everyone (who owns the store)!
Seriously. I went in for some passport photos and there was literally one guy working there. We had to wait for him to finish sticking and working at the cash register before we got helped.
I didn't say Dollar General. I said Walgreens. We close the store if only 1 employee is available for work.
Not sure where you got dollar general, but I'm talking about Walgreens too.
And I don't think this was only one guy available, this looked to be "mid day we only need 1 guy" sort of deal.
We never have one dude. Always two ALWAYS. You probably didn't see the shift lead working the back. But associates must have a lead on hand. Also Walgreens policy is to close the store if not at least two employees on hand period.
Bone spurs don't stop you from standing for 8 hours.
To be honest, I've never actually looked up what bone spurs are. I've only ever heard it in the BS-rich context that is Trump, so I didn't bother looking up facts ÂŻ\(ă)/ÂŻ
Thank you for educating me.
And they and their rich friends will find a way to pay their way out of it
Theyâll each own one of the farms, and claim that means they work there every day already.
Do serious farmers even want inexperienced randos picking their precious harvest though? I guess it might depend on the crop, but a lot of vegetables and fruits need the proper handling, or they'll be ruined or at least second-rate.
Tbh, I think especially the work-intensive low-qualification jobs like picking berries and stuff are easy enough to teach. I'd be more afraid of people who really don't want to be there doing the job.
The people doing the job right now really need the money, so even if they most likely don't enjoy doing the job either, they have a lot of incentive to perform well.
If you put some rich kid there who is just biding their time, that can't be fired and that doesn't need the money either, they will likely be nothing more but a waste of space at best and actively harmful at worst.
LOL yes if you enslaved me to enrich some POS by working his land I would absolutely be at best useless on purpose and if I could "accidentally" make it worse eg dropping stuff or messing it up in transit I absolutely would.
Itâs not unreasonable to expect at least 2-3 days of throwing out most of what a new person produces, and most people wonât be half decent until mid season. Even picking berries needs technique and experience to separate the unripe from the ripe, to avoid crushing the fruit, and moving quickly. But compared to some office jobs Iâve had, where because of politics and large org structure, it takes 6-12 months to figure out whatâs going onâŚ
Malicious incompetence is way too easy in this kind of work.
I too think that 80% of all office workers are useless and the rest are likely working in projects that are useless, but that's the world we live in right now, and with office work, in most cases people aren't doing anything useful in general, compared to e.g. agricultural work.
I've worked in enough places as a software developer where all we do is develop in circles and develop useless garbage that I can confidently say, you could cut entire departments of large corporations and it would probably take a few years before anyone noticed that they are missing.
I worked at Broadcom for a year. During that year my team was moved across 4 different products. All of them old and complex projects. We bspent close to our whole time onboarding before being moved to the next project. First we were at a cluster that had this huge project where they were unifying a bunch of microservices into a monorepo. Half a year of work planned, took a full year. Then we got moved into a different cluster with this huge project, similar amount of effort, where they were picking apart a monorepo into microservices.
It's occupation therapy to make some managers look good, nothing else. That's what most office jobs are.
Sadly it's probably too much to wish for that they'd develop empathy for the real workers and use the cushion of their wealth to help support a strike for a fairer share of profits/subsidies. Iirc, there's already a farm workers union since Cesar Chavez but it's weak because members are poor and transient.
There was some politician way back, can't remember who, was going on about getting convicted felons in prison to pick crops.
Yeah no.
Make it so the farmer has to pay the median wage to anyone drafted like this.
I bet they'll shut up real fast.
Hell back in HS we got first shot at detasseling corn and deroguing beans. I lasted a day, some boys lasted a few. By the time they brought in the mexicans a week later, there would be maybe 2 of the scariest foodball players left, and they did make decent money by the end of their little stint.
Your average person is going to get heatstroke from this.
Seen it. Down south, knew a guy who did any kind of odd job. Work hard, play hard, antiracist. Lasted like two days picking strawberries.
Honestly the job could be less hard. The employee assult issues are really bad, and only a couple little nonprofts are trying to address it. Mostly supply chain advocacy, with migratory/poc employees in leadership.
So... Slavery with more steps?
Slavery, but with overweight incompetent people.
We should use the budget we use to put people through the army to instead have them work on public works projects. Maybe it can just be part of being in the army. Not just farm work but construction work and especially maintenance work.
The government can hire people without making them indentured slaves or trained killers. Well, at least it used to be able to do that
Yeah, but this ensures young rich people have to work an actual job at least once in their lives too.
Young rich people will be driving the heavy farming machinery in air conditioned cabins while the conscripted poor people do the manual backbreaking labor in the scorching sun or freezing wind.
Great. We all say this about the service industry, too. So since farming is your life blood you think its hard and people need to understand.
By that logic, everyone should be drafted for many different vocations to gain perspective on other people's careers.
Edit: Also it seems she's implying that someone else will pay the wages if she wants a draft. She wouldn't have to rely on imported employees if she payed a living wage to begin with.
Everyone should have experienced working retail. That should reduce the amount of Karen's massively!
You'd think so, but I had a colleague who boasted about how rude she was to a retail worker. This colleague was a fellow minimum wage sales assistant. Some people are just entitled little pricks who want all the respect, but aren't willing to reciprocate.
I don't think this is a bad idea. Have young people do a 2 year service in let's say, three month periods, in different socially important sectors like health, public space maintenance, care of the disadvantaged, forest maintenace, etc. chosen at random. It would help people realize a lot of things about the society we live in.
I don't disagree at all. Gives kids a little nibble of different sectors before they commit their lives to one. Not to mention the hard work, and perspective you gain by doing so.
And maybe it will help pay for college when they realize thatâs what takes them away from retail and from physical labor
By what logic do you jump from this would benefit people to we should force people to spend their time doing this under penalty of law? Why should people do this instead of continue to further their actual life or education? Why should people do what can't be well paid work instead of earning actual money?
It would help people realize a lot of things about the society we live in
i.e. this falls under education
You are basically talking about adding 2 years to high school, a full 50% increase in duration, with very little benefit compared to enrolling in college.
The questions I asked which you didn't bother to answer is why should they do this instead of higher paying work or college and why should we force people to do it.
Explaining again HOW you intend to temporarily enslave people eg make it part of school isn't particularly informative.
with very little benefit compared to enrolling in college
I think this is the main point of contention. I think it would be more beneficial for everyone to have broader hands-on knowledge, particularly in areas that are relevant to all of our lives (e.g. farming). Even if we don't end up making a living in those areas, we live in a democracy where we have a say in many decisions that would affect these industries. Knowing more means being able to make more informed decisions and being less vulnerable to grifters trying to sway you.
The fact that you think this doesn't justify slavery
We can agree that slavery is bad. As are many other things.
If we can make a choice that minimizes the total amount of bad, should we take it? I think yes.
If minimizing the total amount of bad involves shuffling things around so that there's more of some bad things and less of others? That's where it can be debatable, and I think that's what you're getting at. It depends on how bad you think each bad thing is. Perhaps you're more concerned about slavery and autonomy. I'm personally more concerned about equity and having a high floor to everyone's quality of life.
All "right wing" farmers parties are just agrarian socialists with racism and sexism.
Make America Great Leap Forward Again
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that Kelly is over 30?
/ owns a farm and doesnât realize the logistics of training tens of thousands of new farm hands who do not want to be there every season.
I arguably hate Maoism the most of all popular authoritarian left ideologies. So it makes sense to me that irredeemably evil and stupid conservatives and fascists would unconsciously like it's policies.
As somebody that worked in a cornfield for minimum wage, it sucks. Your feet get heavy with mud, it's hot, the leaves give you "papercuts". One summer is enough to make you never want to do it again.
Bourgeois conservatives are obsessed with 20th century communism. The billionaire class has had its own vanguard since Prescott Bush. Steve Bannon calls himself a Leninist, though I'm not real sure what he means. The Republican obsession with culture war is influenced by Gramsci and his theory of hegemonic power. And the republican strategy of politically controlling cities through rural areas, as in "the country surrounds the city," is a component of Maoism.
Not saying there is an affinity between far right conservatives and communists, I don't believe that there is one. But 20th century communists' application of dialectical materialism uncovered new political dynamics through their work with the masses, and unfortunately the far right learned many of these lessons, though only as a way to gain power for themselves noy liberation for all; while democrats clung death like to liberal idealism and refused to learn anything from the left, since it is the dems job to oppose and keep power from us.
Steve Bannon calls himself a Leninist, though I'm not real sure what he means.
I mean fascist have "socialism" if you consider their party members alone to represent the state. That's why fascist economics can be difficult to grasp for a lot of people, especially capitalists.
Yes the Nazi seized the means of production.... But, the way they did it was by seizing businesses not controlled by the party and then incentivizing loyalty by re-privatizing the businesses back to loyal party members.
People like Bannon cannot see the difference between the people seizing the means of production to serve greater society, and the party seizing the means of production to serve the party itself. To them socialism is when government take business, and that's it.
And the republican strategy of politically controlling cities through rural areas, as in "the country surrounds the city," is a component of Maoism.
I don't really think that's entirely correct considering that the 3/5th compromise was basically set up to do the same thing in America, and the idea of a Senate itself was invented as a way to avoid the same situation early American leaders witnessed in the French revolution.
I think maoism is a bit of a twist on the tradition, as class consciousness in China was fermented in the rural plurality unlike in Western nations which tend to take a more vanguard approach to socialism.
The actual material conditions that underpinned the revolutions in China, Russia, and other socialist experiments couldn't be more different than our situation. China was a country that had a brutally and bloodily repressed peasant revolution before Mao rose to power and, in many ways, allowed that peasant revolution in China. Though I'm not an expert in Chinese history, def have some books here I gotta crack open.
The Russian revolution too, had an extremely weak bourgeois class, a despotic royal family, and like 70 years of hardcore Marxists building the workers movement. Lenin was still exiled when the workers soviets seized power in February, with the Bolshevik revolution taking place in October. We haven't had our Bloody Sunday, yet, that scares the peaceful worker movement so much that they have no choice but to face facts, organize for power, and overthrow the monarchy.
No, the ruling classes can afford to be like detached from reality like this, they can call themselves Leninists and maybe even read and somewhat understand some of his work (or surround themselves with ppl that do.) But they'll never understand these movements
The actual material conditions that underpinned the revolutions in China, Russia, and other socialist experiments couldn't be more different than our situation. China was a country that had a brutally and bloodily repressed peasant revolution before Mao rose to power and, in many ways, allowed that peasant revolution in China. Though I'm not an expert in Chinese history, def have some books here I gotta crack open.
Eh, it's a bit more complicated than that. Really the material conditions in China were a result of the dissolution of the Qing dynasty under the control of the Manchu people. You can really trace it's origins back from the Taiping Rebellion, the subsequent Boxer rebellion, the occupation of the western powers, and finally the invasion and occupation of the Japanese. Its material reality was more a result of ethnic conflict between the generally perceived as outsider Manchu, and the repressed Han, who saw themselves as the historic rulers of China. Coupled with the perception by the Han that the Manchu were collaborating with occupying forces.
Mao and the initial leadership of the revolution weren't exactly what you would think of as peasants, rather they were born to the peasant class. He was actually the son of one of the wealthiest farming families in his region, he was just Han in a time where really only Manchu were elevated into the ruling class.
I didn't say Mao was a peasant, I said that he facilitated a peasant revolution. But I appreciate the history lesson
Oh, I didn't mean to imply you did. I was just trying to explain a common misconception between the western and eastern understanding of what the peasant class was. In the Qing dynasty a peasant was far from the lowest rung of society, and relatively had a lot of potential for upward mobility.
By eastern standards mao was in the peasant class, but you could still be a relatively wealthy land owner and be part of the peasant class.
In the Qing dynasty there were 5 distinct classes and the order of them is pretty different from Western traditions.
The first class is occupied by the emperor and his immediate family.
The second class was for high government bureaucrats.
The third were agriculturalists, landlords, farmers and peasants.
The fourth was reserved for artisans and merchants.
Lastly the final class and lowest in society was for criminals, slaves, prostitutes, entertainers, low government employees, and the military.
They're obsessed with selling the idea of 20th century communism without that label while practicing 19th century robber-baron-ism. They can be kings and gods and then sell everyone else the tools to chase the next ideal. Because ultimately all they have is brand loyalty, fear, and a lack of any other options keeping farmers with them.
Back in 2016 Trey Crowder and 2 other comedian friends wrote a book called the Liberal Redneck Manifesto. As someone that grew up redneck, it was probably the best assessment of the situation in 2016 I've seen so far, and the media missed it 100%. The ultimate lesson is that until it affects the under-educated and they think they chose the alternative, they will continue to act against their own best interests because "That's how it's done." Same exact thing applies to the developing world.
Then J.D. Vance and his stupid book came in and swept the scene with his mediocre drivel that made coastal liberal elites feel like now they understood how Trump won. Still pisses me off how joyously out of touch they were as they fueled the fire that got us here.
I'll have to check out that Crowder book. Yeah they want to restore the gilded age.
But there will be no new deal. This time we don't stop until every last one of them has been thrown down put of power, and faced the judgement of the people for their excessive crimes
Nah I wouldnât call it communism. They want slavery. The âgood onesâ own the land. And the libs are the slaves. That is their ideal world.
Oh absolutely, 1000%. Its not communism, but they'll use whatever affectation/artifice to get to slavery.
Honestly I'm all for it. It gives you some understanding how food is produced, gives you some contact with nature, maybe some physical exercise, some respect for farm workers, and such.
edit: after thinking about it, i'm NOT all for it. i'm against all forms of forced labor.
And a little bit of glyphosate in the lungs.
yeah well that is an issue with workings conditions in general, i'd say. not specific to this proposal here.
as long as the farms are publicly owned and there's no profit interest.
even then, it's basically slavery, or a framework for it. it'll quickly slide into "undesirables" being made to work there. then conditions will go to hell because who cares about those people, I want my produce.
while corporations get free labor win win for them!
Definitely better than military service
The only justification for a military draft is an existential threat. Having to import farm workers from south of the border isn't one.
not the worst idea really; community or civil service would be better. especially outside the town youâre from.
my high school made everyone do 40 hours community service and the connections and friends I made then still stand today and I live thousands of miles away now
Forced labor is never a good idea. Best solution for the kids would be to coordinate with others and burn all the fields in conjunction. Would bring the country to its knees begging other countries for assistance with food. The government would likely collapse and give up on the forced labor as soon as possible.
"The slaves acted like terrorists."
It's not like they had a choice what country they were born in.
yea not forced labor on farms - iâd propose local community service, help the town out, administer local elections, vfw, or local hospital or something more civic based.
I liked more when it was volunteer community service to gain access to a higher level of scholarship option. 75% scholarships didn't require volunteer work, 100% scholarships did. No one is forced to do anything, but you can choose to do so and it benefits your options.
the his was actually the reason but the high school also mandated it. to be honest a lot of kids ended up just working with their parents and getting away with that sadly. 100% agreed with you
Ah, they didn't allow the working with a family member in Florida. Had to do a non-profit or government program. Although I know 2 people who got around that by volunteering to do the clock/statkeeping for the kids basketball games. They'd show up on Saturday every weekend so the parents and such didn't have to do it. And being that they both played basketball, it fit their interests and they noted all the individual stats instead of just the total score. The leagues are non-profit so it was an easier one.
thatâs how it should be. lolol stop clock is a lottery win for those 2
tieing it to scholarship is difficult because you're gonna end up with a bunch of nerdy guys who have the palest skin you've ever seen standing in the middle of texan sun ... not ideal.
good way to break that shell. also again weâre not debating labor on farms here, more civics in this thread
I see where you're coming from but I disagree.
I think society would always benefit from requiring some sort of community service. Its a great way of getting people involved I'm the real grit of their community. Build fond memories with friends and learn life lessons while making a difference.
Now, granted, I'm not going to go quietly into the fields to fix a mess made by a fascist government who decided making a show of shipping off undesirables is more important than eating.
Nor am I going to do such labor for free/cheap against my will and then be told
"Oh I'm so sorry. Jolly Green Giant and Kroger have had a bad year so that broccoli you picked has to double in price"
So what I'm saying is, I would be completely on board with a mandatory community harvest effort, but that's assuming its for a government that hasn't disgusted me or broken my trust. Which, as an American, I don't have that.
This but for the police force.
Turn the police into something of a militia, 80% made of constituents from that jurisdiction, picked at random Ă la jury duty (exemptions apply)
That is a terrible idea. You already see what happens when theyâre âtrainedâ.
this would absolutely turn into a "purge" rotating revenge. We just need the ability to hold our current police accountable when they break the law.
It's an interesting idea, but a proper police force should consist of trained and capable people (unlike the current states one!), of which random selection will necessarily create it so that many are not.
As a European I think it's a great idea for USA to enter your proposed perpetual state of civil war
United Statians buy a gun at Walmart and already start wearing camouflage clothing, speaking using walkie talkie lingo, and listening to tactical entry AI generated podcasts.
Do you want to give them power and a badge?
I totally would but I dont want to take a job away from those hardworking American farmers. They've fought too hard to win them back and would just be a shame to take them all away again.
1 Maoism
2 ???
3 wait 30 years
4 economy multiplies to 10000x itâs original size
I dunno, the math is pretty compelling
*Squints harder*
Ah, slavery.
But schools place way too much emphasis on academic results. You can be the smartest man alive, but you'll still be paying the "school thicko" to fix your toilet.
I wonder how quickly they would change their tune if they were also required to pay appropriate wages for the people conscripted to work on their farms.
LOL, MAGA Communists.
BRB, gonna go kill a few sparrows
Before you go melt your pans.
Need the pans to catch the sparrows bruh
Sparrows first, then pans
So... you want to bring back the WPA? I've been in favor of that idea since the 1990s. It should never have ended.
WPA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration
Yes, thank you for defining for those who didn't already know.
AS someone Coming from a farm: Leave us the fuck alone with unskilled workers.
Modern farms are usually optimised to minimise the need for human workers. This means, that those that are needed need certain skills. A lot of the required skills can not be learned in a single year just from working on a farm. The only farming sector that still heavily relies on human workers are farms that produce vegetables. Always having to retrain your entire workforce every single year will cause problems and is not worth it for a lot of farms.
That picture looks like a tobacco field, which is a dangerous crop to pick. Americans would quit immediately if forced to pick their own.
What makes it dangerous?
Supposedly an illness called Green Tobacco Sickness can occur from absorbing nicotine in the tobacco leaves along with heat injuries from working in the fields
https://www.osha.gov/green-tobacco-sickness
We are not slaves. Fuck off. If your business can't survive, then you go out of business.
But think of the exposure you'll get!
- Exposure to sunburn
- Exposure to insect bites
- Exposure to the elements
- Exposure to pesticides and agriculture chemicals
The reds have actually taken over our country.
We need to stop Chairman Trump, the communist who hates America and want to destroy our freedom and our way of life.
(can we just call the MAGAts "communist"? seems like a more potent word in this 21st century red scare era)
One thing you gotta know about politics, is you have to use "fascism" when your audience is on the left, but for conservatives, "communism" is a much scarier word so you should use that instead. Its basically code-switching in order to get your point across. The average people are too dumb to understand nuances so you have to dumb it down for them to understand.
I mean he nationalized 10% of Intel. That's pretty much textbook communism.
Nationalization of private companies? How is that not a communist act? Don't get me wrong, I think he's a fascist first and foremost but he's doing some weirdly collectivist stuff. Which is funny because that is what actually uneducated Americans (not me, and it's pretty funny you consider yourself to be a spokesperson for "the educated world" when you're most likely a barely bilingual teenager) have been screaming about for a long time despite our socialized car culture, military, and corporate welfare program. But you go on and raise your blood pressure about things you don't fully understand and yell on the Internet at people you certainly have little chance of challenging intellectually.
Calling a single policy Maoist because it was implemented by the Maoist regime is the same as calling the concept of socialised healthcare a Nazi policy because it was implemented by the Nazi regime.
I neither agree nor disagree with this policy on the basis that I don't know enough about the logistics and implementation to give an informed opinion, but to refer to it as Maoist is glib and incorrect as Malaysia, Zambia and Nigeria already have agricultural national service and, although Malaysia is a communist country, none of them are aligned with the CCP or the Maoist Revolutionary movement.
Its basically a parody of how every right leaning idiot calls boring right leaning centrists like Democrats "Extreme Left Communism".
Yes, it's a funny tweet, not a political science essay. It's OK.
The nazis did not implement national Healthcare. That was something done by Bismarck. And Bismarck was no bleeding heart liberal.
One valid ciriticism of this is that in the US a lot of farms are owned by private businesses.
Imagine Amazon needs more workers after a labor strike and government drafts you to work there.
American citizens can't afford to live on farm wages.
Huh. Well what if we built areas with housing and transit cheap enough that farm wages are enough to live on?
You know, you have to have a solid, repeatable plan for farm success, 5 years sounds about right.
Don't get caught wearing glasses around maga.... Wouldn't wanna get called a "reader"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corv%C3%A9e
That concept is old as fuck.
Cue Fortunate Son
Fuck it, if we're doing this make customer service the same as well
I'd like to see billionaires do this work.
I'm all for it. Just like Canada needs to ween itself from America's corporate tit, citizens need to step up to make this happen. Too often money is used as an excuse to not do something, when it can be done.
Theyâve circled so far around they arenât even on the right anymore.
