A simple dictionary…
(midwest.social)
ZDL to 
WomensStuff
Is it clear?
Also, if she SHOULD mean yes but says no she doesn't deserve it, for bad communication skills.
Everyone deserves to be heard, especially when they so "no".
I knew a girl who said I wasn’t a man if I took no for an answer. She ended up raping me and giving me a disease but as a victim there was nothing I could do.
Cool story, bro. One that totally happened, I'm sure. Maybe you should share it in a group where your posting isn't explicitly against the rules?
Thanks for all your reports in this thread guys! Really appreciate you helping the mods keep WomensStuff safe
Thanks to the mods for the unrewarding work of filtering away the incels, MGTOW, MRA, PUA, and "nice guys" that tend to plague any women's space.
You're welcome ZDL 😊
I'm drunk is not an invitation. Fucken maggots.
"I have a boy/girlfriend" doesn't necessarily mean anything. Times have changed, folks.
It never "necessarily" meant anything. But even today it usually means something. And specifically if it's being used in response to a pass, it means "NO".
But you probably already knew that, right? You're just arguing to be argumentative, right?
🙄
"I have a boy/girlfriend" is supposed to stop you.
"Do you mind that I have a boy/girlfriend? " is meant to keep your interest while being transparent.
Know what is being said.
This right here. Context is king, yo!
I disagree with this sentiment that you are trying to convey. If language has to have intent assumed outside of context especially if the context is no -- "no" should just be said and that should be respected fully.
It must be nice to live in a world where there are zero men who behave like mental toddlers in the bodies of, well, men who become a real threat when told simple words like "no".
Most of us don't live in that world, but are insanely jealous of those of you who apparently do.
I mean if you're in a situation and they say "I have a boy/girlfriend" you could say "is that a no?" If for some reason you think it might not be.
Should is doing a lot of work here. Sadly no isn't respected still.
While I agree with you in principle, unfortunately a lot of people feel pressured to "soften the blow" from learned experiences or trauma or whatever else might be the case, as it's not always the case that people take "no" for an answer and handle it respectfully. It's a defense strategy
If someone is daying it in response to you hitting on them, it definitely does mean something. Even if someone might potentially be open to poly in another situation, if you're like "hey you're cute, wanna hang out" and they come back with "i have a partner" then thats them blowing you off for sure.
Yes, even us polyam people can understand this.
Incorrect, even us polyamorous people understand its intended meaning.
"aaahhhhahaha okayyy...", also no. But I probably need to work on being more direct.
Yeah I do basically the same thing, it's rough when you actually want something but on the outside seem uncertain or reserved because you internally constantly think people hate you haha. And then it makes it difficult for the other person
Probably why I enjoy saying like "do whatever unless I say [safe word]". But still something that I need to work on, and actually be like, directly communicating. It's healthy
Edit: on a second read, I slightly misinterpreted your comment, but I'll leave it
Eh, it goes both ways. I don't ask for what I want or object clearly to the things I don't want. One of the many reasons I have just decided to abstain from absolutely everything for now. Still haven't figured out the correct way to accept a drunken compliment without accidentally inviting further advances though.
"Thank you for the compliment. Pity I can't return it."
That would likely end any further conversation along those lines.
Or to put it in the words of The Monks: "Nice legs, shame about yer face."
Pull my finger.
Bananahamock
Here is my best articulation for why this image irks me
- insecure pose is related to its brethren of other insecure poses, such as the peace sign ✌️😉✌️, tongue sticking out😜, duck lips😙
- there is this weird lust for such poses
- the brand clothing indicating commodity fetishism aka lust
- the coffee indicating lack of self control and gluttony/lust aka addiction
- expectation for others to read your mind when speaking indirectly, vaguely, or with innuendo
- closed-mindedness to the world of opportinity
- the sublte implication of superiority
- the callous disregard for the other person
- the lack of empathy
- the excessive self-conciet and pride in oneself
Here's my best articulation for why this post irks me:
You are so fucking full of yourself that you are currently inhaling your own intestinal methane using the most efficient placement possible.
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You-statements ("you are so fucking...") are accusatory, emotionally immature, and not civil. https://www.mindfulwellness.us/relationships/words-matter-using-i-statements#/
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people who are narcissistic, due to emotional immaturity or arrested developmemt, are prone to accusations https://psychcentral.com/pro/exhausted-woman/2015/06/how-a-narcissist-verbally-abuses#3
"Are women bourgeois?"
One would guess that women drive consumerism, but the data shows that both men and women are equally materialistic and status-hungry on average in a population. The difference are the types of commodities they buy.
Are you okay?
Yes, focus on the message not the messeger
What on earth.
I was gonna have my own qualms with this post until I read this guy's comment and now I'm just gonna leave that be. Don't wanna be grouped in with that lot.
It it is possible to share your opinion w/o agreeing with what i said. This is not a 2 party system.
This type of comment is like the friend who makes everything awkward https://youtu.be/EnBdGTX3vZc
It's not, but if you actually need a rebuttal, let's go:
- insecure pose is related to its brethren of other insecure poses, such as the peace sign ✌️😉✌️, tongue sticking out😜, duck lips😙
What about this pose is in any way insecure? She is confidently giving the finger to those who don't respect consent.
- there is this weird lust for such poses
This is your own opinion and not substantiated by anything here as far as I can see.
- the brand clothing indicating commodity fetishism aka lust
There's nothing wrong with people liking brand-name clothes. You personally may have a beef with it but calling it 'lust' is not justified by anything in the image.
- the coffee indicating lack of self control and gluttony/lust aka addiction
Again with the 'lust'? Coffee is such a normal thing. There's nothing here to indicate she's addicted, or a glutton, or in any way out of control. You're reading an insane amount into this simple drawing.
- expectation for others to read your mind when speaking indirectly, vaguely, or with innuendo
It's not an expectation. She's spelling out exactly the ways in which people try to ignore a woman's lack of consent.
- closed-mindedness to the world of opportinity
Opportunity to what, have sex she doesn't want to have? Are you serious right now?
- the sublte implication of superiority
Substantiate this please, because again, there's nothing in the image supporting this claim.
- the callous disregard for the other person
You mean the person who's callously disregarding her by ignoring the very clear lack of consent? Because that's the type of person this image is aimed at.
- the lack of empathy
Same comment as above. Who exactly does she owe empathy?
- the excessive self-conciet and pride in oneself
Again, totally unsubstantiated in the image. She's allowed to be proud of herself just like anybody else, but there's nothing excessive here.
You've read a lot of nonsense into this image. Maybe have a think about why that is.
It seems like you're in denial. To respond for the audience...
- body language, such as poses, can indicate insecurity. The middle finger is an example of overcompensation as in acting intimidating or cool because deep down they feel vulnerable, anxious, fearful, etc.
- "Lust is an intense desire for something. Lust can take any form such as the lust for sexual activity, money, or power; but it can also take such mundane forms as the lust for food or the lust for redolence." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lust
- According to this definition of lust, there is clearly a lust, or intense desire, for the coffee for example. There is also lust or desire for "looking cool" as evident by the fashion & pose. Also, the desire for other people to change is a lust for power. Power is defined as ability to influence others. The image self-evidently is an attempt to influence others.
- There are many harmful consequences with brand-name clothes including but not limited to environmental damage, psychological damage, and economic harm for self and others. This is empirical, not opinion -- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652624036813 , https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1740144525001068
- Negative (i.e., "no" and rejection) and aggressive body language are anti-social behaviors that implicitly assert superiority. "[Contemptuous people] are true specialists in looking you up and down, generally with a slight gesture of rejection, disgust and superiority drawn on their faces. They are real experts in making you feel bad. Making you believe that you are inferior, that you are not worth enough or that your vocation is failure." https://psychology-spot.com/contemptuous-people-ways-to-despise/
- Everyone is owed empathy. All sentient beings are deserving of compassion.
- Pride is as defining characteristic of narcissism. "Narcissism is characterized by a grandiose sense of self-importance, a lack of empathy for others, a need for excessive admiration, and the belief that one is unique and deserving of special treatment."
- The woman in this picture is exhibiting traits of narcissism by not having empathy for others and the grandiose sense of self-importance (aka pride) in acting superior to others with the aggressive (middle finger), dressing "cool" and "high-status" aka superior (fashion clothes, posturing), and negative behavior (no, rejection, the arrogance in believing one knows more than others). https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/narcissism
I am prepetually being booed for being right on all platforms i go to. I wonder if there is a mass psychosis and/or gen alpha has subpar critical thinking
I think you should pay more attention to what the common denominator is if this happens to you in all the platforms.
I accept that I am a common denominator, though that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong. I am a nonconformist by nature, and my lone dissent gets me in trouble in crowds where conformity is expected (even though it's subconscious). The population of lemmy is big enough (>5) for crowd behavior/ dynamics to occur.
A gross retort I heard that's always stuck with me: "a boyfriend's a speed bump, not a stop sign"
🤮
Wish I could go back to my younger self just so I could tell that guy (and the others) to go fuck themselves.
"just because there's a goalie doesn't mean you can't score"
🤮
yeah me too
Oh wow! That's somehow even grosser than the speed bump thing! 😮
Every piece of love advice I received as a kid in the 90s and 00s was equivalent to "try harder" or "pursue" or "don't give up" and they made it sound so good. My poor wife... The early years couldn't have been easy for her.
Hey Quantum thanks for your perspective! We're a trans inclusive women only community so please dont comment again thanks for understanding 😊
Are you sure they're not trans?
I'm not. Blocking the community.
I'm sure you'll be missed greatly. Everybody misses people who casually break the rules and then get pissed off when politely asked to abide by them. Their contributions would undoubtedly have been completely and utterly priceless.
For enforcing the rules? Seems a little harsh
Me too. And the mod.
Buy-bye! Don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's a bit heavy and leads to some awkward stumbling.
You're not alone. Same. My wife is wonderful and I'm glad she challenged me to question some of my behaviors.
Hey Alec thanks so much for stopping by! We're trans inclusive women only so please don't comment again and have a lovely weekend
Hey I'm a woman, why do you feel the need to say trans inclusive, and not just "women only" this is my first time discovering this instance. And it comes off as performative although I see you're drawing a line in the sand between you and the terfs-- but imo you're just acknowledging the existence of terfs more than validating trans women.
I don't think it's a useful strategy to not acknowledge the existence of terfs or trans people. In a lot of similar communities there is always the question of whether trans people are actually included or not, and even if so, who under the trans spectrum, which always makes me uncertain about my place.
And also, just ignoring problems such as terfs is not a solution. They exist whether their existence is acknowledged or not, sweeping things under the rug isn't helpful
Though, yeah, it is made clear in the rules, which I appreciate
Hey Mika welcome to WomensStuff we're really glad to have you. I say it for several reasons, including that we welcome all groups under the trans umbrella.
I'm go glad my mom taught me from a young age that no means no whether I say it or others do. Unfortunately the latter stuck harder than the former… Well actually if only one could stick I suppose the better did
https://youtu.be/6k0ZMPGFh9w
Thoughts on this?
Sex should always be 100% consensual. If someone says 'no', then you must stop. If you don't then that's rape as far as I'm concerend. But would you acknowledge there's nuance in playful protest?
Also, there's also a growing (and understandable) feeling that consent can't be given under the influence of alcohol. However, where i come from our population would probably be half it's size if that were always true.
Also, if you have sex drunk and regret it later, there's an argument that the person you had sex with has taken advantage. That's a tricky one to navigate.
Bill Burr can be very funny, but in the end he's right there just reciting the mantra of every man who heard "no" and thought "she just needs more persuasion".
Is he right that this sometimes happens? Undoubtedly. Sexual dynamics are EXTREMELY complicated. Is this the norm? Certainly not in my experience. A lot of the times people use the style he's mocking there TO DISARM A SITUATION where SOMEONE WHO CAN HURT THEM BADLY WITH EASE might get VERY FUCKING ANGRY because you said "no".
I sometimes think "man or bear?" was the wrong idea. It should be "man and bear". Locked into a room. So that men can learn what it's like to be physically weaker in the presence of something stronger than them and very aggressive to boot.
I hear you, but worth mentioning that most men have been in the presence of something stronger and aggressive, in the form of other men. From abusive father's, older siblings, to the general school environment. Violence and the threat of violence is something men feel growing up and it doesn't really go away.
I'm not saying that threat isn't more acute for women, or minimizing that lived experience - when a man is trying to force himself onto you it must be terrifying and I know from my sisters and wife that it happens a lot, and often in more subtle and low-key ways than outright aggression (although that's often the underlying threat).
But yeah.. as someone who's been beaten up a few times just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or wearing the wrong t-shirt, I'm under no illusion as to how dangerous men can be.
Hi yeah thanks for saying hi! Yes absolutely agree male violence against men matters. We are a women's only community so please don't comment again thanks for understanding 🥰
My apologies, I hadn't appreciated that - all the best
You too mate
If someone says ‘no’, then you must stop. If you don’t then that’s rape as far as I’m concerend.
That's not just as far as you're concerned. That's the DEFINITION.
If both people are drunk it's inadvisable but not immoral imo. If only the other person is drunk, you'd definitely be taking advantage of them and I don't think that's right.
Yeah, hard agree on that. Many, many people have made poor decisions when inebriated. They've got over it and moved on. But when one person is sober it definitely feels like an abuse of power.
Haven't watched the video, but regarding the playful protest point
Discuss it beforehand. Talk about expectations or wants, say that you enjoy playful protest and want it to happen, and, most critically of all, set up a safe word. Have a word like "red" or "banana" or whatever else you want, that both of you agree upon, that, when uttered, everything stops.
Oh, for sure. Once you're in a relationship then there's a whole world to explore, as consent is established. But the video (comedically/crudely depending on your own sense of humour) alludes to very early flirtation and the games people play, where a grey area arises as one party wants the other to believe that they are somehow reluctant to proceed (although they're not), to somehow present the idea that they're not usually promiscuous, perhaps to massage the ego of the instigator. The concept of 'sweet surrender' is explored in countless romantic works and is definitely a thing - and not something that should be conflated with rape, is I guess what i'm trying to put across.
"I have the chaos emeralds" means no
Love this!!
Respect women with attitude.
I love this comment because I read it as show your respect via attitude.
Totally clear. 👍
It’s a desire not a drive.
"Yes" means "Yes, but I reserve the right to say no at any point."
You say this like it's a bad thing. Or am I misreading?
It was in response to another post.
It's not a bad thing.
OK, just checking. :) Thanks for clarifying.
Yes, consent can be revoked at any time.
Sometimes even yes means no. Plenty of women still have an ‘I have to please’ chip on their shoulder and haven’t fully fleshed out their own boundaries.
The golden rule is, if there’s too much confusion in the yes/no department, you’re misaligned and it’s probably healthiest to move on.
Hey king thanks for swinging by! We're trans inclusive women only so please don't comment again thanks for understanding 😊
Oh sorry. Someone gendered me for me apparently.
I understand what you’re trying to do. Seeing how you’re actively trying to keep a part of the userbase out, perhaps you can reduce the mod load by having a private community for this. Better yet would be a c/womenstuffopen community that automatically mirrors posts from the private community into open discussion for all (including those who don’t wish to be publicly gendered).
Feel free to delete all my stuff and ban me too (no offence taken) as I will probably respond to something else again if it pops up in my feed and I find it interesting.
Thanks for your suggestion King! Think it's best I politely ban you so that you don't forget and comment. Really appreciate your consideration ❤️
Although I get your point, the other side of the coin is that plenty of guys are really bad at picking up on emotional cues. So unless you actually say no, not all guys will understand yes is actually no.
You broke one of the only rules, knowing the rules, to post this uninspiring, milquetoast comment that doesn't add anything of value to an already crystal-clear message?
I'll agree with the others here, "Yes" only means "Yes" if it's enthusiastic, legal, and ongoing.
I’ll delete it. I’m sorry.
Delete this too, you shouldn't be here.
@LadyButterfly@piefed.blahaj.zone
Here’s another one.
They know they shouldn’t, and then they do anyway?
is this from the creator of yourscenesucks? gave me a early 2000s nam flashback lol
